Why does everyone overlook Sony?

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vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
1,610
0
71
What kind of lag are we talking about? Not getting it on the A65 or the NEX.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Yes I used to boycott Sony too. Then suddenly their hardware was what best my needs... so I bought a Sony CW laptop in 2009 (no other 14" was good for gaming), Sony TV in 2010 (only good 1080p 32" available in a B&M plus very low input lag), Sony HX-1 for $160 on Craigslist (best of the superzooms), and A35 because of the EVF, Memory Stick support, and cheap lenses.
 

slashbinslashbash

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
1,945
8
81
What is your point, dude? Does it reflect on your worth as a human being whether you use Sony or some other brand? You've got stuff, it works for you, great! Other people have other stuff, it works for them, great! Why the need for the pissing match?
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
What is your point, dude? Does it reflect on your worth as a human being whether you use Sony or some other brand? You've got stuff, it works for you, great! Other people have other stuff, it works for them, great! Why the need for the pissing match?

Why troll?

This is a forum, people have discussions. This is a discussion about the fact that most people only ever consider Canon/Nikon. Get over it.


If people claim sensor shift stabilization doesn't work at 200mm, why would I not post pics showing that it works fine at 300mm?
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
I already posted this but sensor stabilization in the Olympus E-M5 is in another league. It can correct an additional axis of rotation compared to in-lens, plus it even works in the EVF. Assuming it doesn't break easily, I'd say it's at least as good as in-lens for most focal lengths now. Maybe better, considering the extra axis.
 

vbuggy

Golden Member
Nov 13, 2005
1,610
0
71
I love watching the armchair pros go at each other. We are talking about a $600 kit system for the OP, and I'd say whatever it's doing at that level ranges from pretty decent to excellent by any yardstick. Assuming you never step up to 'true pro' levels (and how many here is at that level really?) the A-mount provides sufficient scope and range for creative expansion, though opportunities to buy used may be few and far between.
 
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LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
This is a forum, people have discussions. This is a discussion about the fact that most people only ever consider Canon/Nikon. Get over it.

Because it's very simple. Canon and Nikon have an established reputation and lineup across a wide range of segments that most people trust and use. Because of that established public image and history, most people have lens or a history with the products that leads to them to continue using such product. Sony is simply not a household name for its photography equipment. Video equipment is a different story.

Sony doesn't really offer any compelling reason for the consumer/prosumer to switch their camera brand. Sony also simply doesn't offer the type of professional grade camera equipment that Nikon or Canon does. So their market penetration is going to be low because they are not the established leaders and they really don't provide anything that would significantly sway the opinion of the mass public to use their products.

Not to mention that Sony as a whole is downward trending on their image. Rootkits, C:13, Playstation Network down for several months and more. People don't want to buy products from a company they can't trust. Canon and Nikon on the other hand don't have these issues and people trust their cameras. So it's those several reasons that keep people buying Canon and Nikon.
 

slashbinslashbash

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
1,945
8
81
This is a forum, people have discussions. This is a discussion about the fact that most people only ever consider Canon/Nikon. Get over it.

Yeah, great "discussion". I post a full page's worth of what I think to be highly relevant information, and get a one-liner response. Thanks a lot, I really want to be a part of your future "discussions", be sure to let me know when you begin another one!
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Yes, because only Canon/Nikon threads are allowed on this forum because Sony rootkits and there aren't as many lenses and sensor shift stabilization doesn't work because Canon says so!

Blastingcap, if you're so offended by this thread that you want it locked, why read and post in it? It might very well do some good, because the average Joe who only considers the top two brands might see this thread and consider Sony's advantages. At least 3 of us on this forum have come to the conclusion that Sony meets our needs better than Canikon (and likewise for Pentax), so it's pretty likely a lot of other folks would too if it weren't for the branding advantage of the big two.
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
Take a chill pill. No need to post defensive-sounding stuff like this:

"Yes I used to boycott Sony too. Then suddenly their hardware was what best my needs... so I bought a Sony CW laptop in 2009 (no other 14" was good for gaming), Sony TV in 2010 (only good 1080p 32" available in a B&M plus very low input lag), Sony HX-1 for $160 on Craigslist (best of the superzooms), and A35 because of the EVF, Memory Stick support, and cheap lenses."

You said that in response to people who disliked Sony's policies for things like DRM or whatever. Do you really think posting that will change their minds?

I mean this entire thread is something like "I'm a Sony fanboy, tell me why you haven't bought your Sony yet." Granted you do talk about technicals too, and that's fine and I even agreed with you that IBIS gets a bad rap sometimes and gave the E-M5 as an example of next-gen IBIS. But I can't even imagine starting a thread on here like "why does everyone overlook MFT" and then arguing with everyone who passes along why they're wrong and I'm right. (And by the way I think people overlook MFT way more than they overlook Sony. I also think people overlook Pentax way more than Sony. Etc. Sony gets PLENTY of attention as it is.)
 

LikeLinus

Lifer
Jul 25, 2001
11,518
670
126
Yes, because only Canon/Nikon threads are allowed on this forum because Sony rootkits and there aren't as many lenses and sensor shift stabilization doesn't work because Canon says so!

Blastingcap, if you're so offended by this thread that you want it locked, why read and post in it? It might very well do some good, because the average Joe who only considers the top two brands might see this thread and consider Sony's advantages. At least 3 of us on this forum have come to the conclusion that Sony meets our needs better than Canikon (and likewise for Pentax), so it's pretty likely a lot of other folks would too if it weren't for the branding advantage of the big two.

You sound like a child. People, myself included, gave you the primary reasons why Canon and Nikon have a deathgrip on the market. But you continue to be childish and not responding to the post. All you post is "haters gonna hate", like you're 15 years old (which at this point after reading several of your post in other threads wouldn't surprise me one bit).

There really is no point in this thread other than you trying to promote Sony if you won't have an intelligent conversation and respond to those who give you a thoughtful answer.

Sorry, but Sony offers nothing that makes me want to buy their cameras over Canon or Nikon. Those one or two features do not overshadow where they miss the mark or where the others succeed.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
You sound like a child. People, myself included, gave you the primary reasons why Canon and Nikon have a deathgrip on the market. But you continue to be childish and not responding to the post. All you post is "haters gonna hate", like you're 15 years old (which at this point after reading several of your post in other threads wouldn't surprise me one bit).

There really is no point in this thread other than you trying to promote Sony if you won't have an intelligent conversation and respond to those who give you a thoughtful answer.

Sorry, but Sony offers nothing that makes me want to buy their cameras over Canon or Nikon. Those one or two features do not overshadow where they miss the mark or where the others succeed.


What post do you want me to respond to? We've established why people overlook Sony, and we've established the advantages and disadvantages of Sony.... I have no idea what you're talking about with this "childish" business. slashbinslashbash complained that he got a "one line" response to his post and accused me of some "pissing match" nonsense. What kind of complaint is that? He posted good information and I summarized the part of it that really explains why Sony is overlooked by people who could be served well by Sony cameras. Apparently showing how effective sensor shift stabilization is a "pissing match". I guess discussing pros and cons is not allowed, only cons of Sony are allowed to be posted? That's why I said "haters gon' hate".

I never even got a response on how lens shift stabilization compares to my 1/60th 300mm pictures.
 
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magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Because it's very simple. Canon and Nikon have an established reputation and lineup across a wide range of segments that most people trust and use. Because of that established public image and history, most people have lens or a history with the products that leads to them to continue using such product. Sony is simply not a household name for its photography equipment. Video equipment is a different story.

Sony doesn't really offer any compelling reason for the consumer/prosumer to switch their camera brand. Sony also simply doesn't offer the type of professional grade camera equipment that Nikon or Canon does. So their market penetration is going to be low because they are not the established leaders and they really don't provide anything that would significantly sway the opinion of the mass public to use their products.

Not to mention that Sony as a whole is downward trending on their image. Rootkits, C:13, Playstation Network down for several months and more. People don't want to buy products from a company they can't trust. Canon and Nikon on the other hand don't have these issues and people trust their cameras. So it's those several reasons that keep people buying Canon and Nikon.


LOL psn down for several months? Exaggerate much?

Rootkits are bad, very bad. Sony's music IP arm needed the pummeling it got. I can't believe i'm defending Sony, but in a company as big as Sony you have to be a fool to think that the right and left arms are coordinated. What the Playstation arm does most likely has ZERO connection to what its camera division is doing, and that isn't really connected to the division that makes TVs, music players, etc. etc.

All the haters are just haters living in a pipe dream if they think that Sony is an evil empire company purposely orchestrating everything. Its exactly like how Samsung can sue Apple and be the main supplier of chips - massive multinationals have divisions that operate like independent companies.

Canon/Nikon may not have the image because they sell nothing beyond optical products .

Ideally, you'd recognize the difference between different divisions and base quality on the actual product, not your perception of the company as a whole. This is a tech forum....not too much to ask for.

Of course i agree that to make someone switch, the value proposition of the switch needs to be MUCH MUCH higher than what you currently have. It isn't okay to meet or even barely exceed it, otherwise it isn't worth it. i have no idea how sony supports pros, but I'll assume they don't have the professional services that Canon or Nikon offers...but perhaps they are after a different market.
The NEX series is awesome and its clearly a consumer product for those who want P&S features with an APS sensor and other SLR characteristics (replaceable lenses)

Their more traditional SLRs are also aimed to consumers.

Even their ~2K USD SLRs are not clearly aimed to pros if the service packages are not offered. Its the same thing with Nikon/Canon....I see plenty of people with 5Ds and D700s that are not making a living off of cameras - expensive prices does not mean you are targeting the professional market. Of course, I rarely see anyone carrying anything higher that isn't making their living off of that. Different markets exist, and Sony may not be aiming for them with their products...

Anyways, in general, people have perceptions and can't break it. I haven't really analyzed a photo from Sony recently, but in the past they had NR issues. Not sure if its still a problem today. I'm also somewhat used to it - I've been hearing back to 2006 when I first got my Pentax SLR that Pentax is dead/dying. Nope, its 2012 and they are still around. Eventually people will grow old and senile, and the new generation won't listen or give a shit.
 
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twistedlogic

Senior member
Feb 4, 2008
606
0
0
Rootkits are bad, very bad.

....Sony is an evil empire.....

....they don't have the professional services that Canon or Nikon offers

I haven't really analyzed a photo from Sony recently, but in the past they had NR issues.

Good points,

LoL, I'm just playing.

The NEX line does look fantastic. A NEX 5n + 16mm pancake would be awesome. I do give props for Sony thinking outside-of-the-box. Competition breads change for the good sometimes.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
magomago, what is a service package?

There are of course some pros who use Sony cameras. They post on the Dyxum and DPReview forums.
 

slashbinslashbash

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
1,945
8
81
magomago, what is a service package?

There are of course some pros who use Sony cameras. They post on the Dyxum and DPReview forums.

http://www.cps.usa.canon.com/about_cps/about.shtml
http://www.nikonpro.com/index.aspx

As far as my Googling can find out, Sony doesn't offer anything similar for photographers (although there appears to be some level of professional support for their video stuff).

I am not a member of CPS but I have heard a lot of good things, and I'm thinking about getting the $100/year membership.... 2 free checks/cleanings a year would be a good thing. Last time I got my 5D cleaned at a local shop, it ran me like $70 (But damn, it looked and felt so shiny and new! It was like putting on a clean pair of underwear). Guaranteed 3-day repair turnaround would be pretty nice too. I am not a "full-time working image maker" but not sure how they check that...

EDIT: BTW, just for background sake, I am not an all-around Sony hater. I have a PS3 and a couple of PS2s, and a PS1 was my main gaming machine back in the day. I even have a PSP but will probably be skipping the Vita. I have a Sony LCD TV, loved their Trinitron tube TVs and computer monitors, etc. I acknowledge that they are a huge company and that some parts of the company will do bad things -- even stupid things. They often go with proprietary formats for no reason. I have always refused to buy into Memory Stick (although I have a 1GB one that came with my PSP). The rootkit stuff was horrible, although it never affected me directly. It is kind of like Microsoft. Even as I was switching to Mac, I still used Microsoft input hardware (ergo keyboard and mouse) and I did most of my gaming on the Xbox. It never reflected a hatred for Microsoft or even for Windows.... just that I liked OSX better. That said, of course there were many times in my life when I was cursing the name of Microsoft due to some stupid *#($ that my computer was doing..... and I hate that they effectively crushed WordPerfect out of the word processing market (as they did with other software, ad nauseum). Both MS and Sony are so big that they are impossible to escape, and there will be some good parts and some bad parts. Hell, even Apple and Google are that way now. I use Google religiously for searching, and I pay for Google ads, and I get paid for Google ads.... but no way in hell am I using Gmail as my main email service. I can't let one company have that much control over my life.
 
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Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
That would be useful.

I just discovered a significant drawback to the Sony SLT cameras... there's no real official method of cleaning the translucent mirror. It's made of plastic and is apparently very fragile. Sony just says to use a blower. If (when) I get dirt on mine I'll try a Q tip with cleaning fluid, or a sensor cleaning pen. A replacement costs $55

It would be great if Sony gave you the option of contrast detect autofocusing and let you remove the mirror entirely. And instead of plastic, use synthetic sapphire (like watch faces).

http://www.dyxum.com/dforum/clean-slt-mirror-like-you-would-the-sensor_topic83561.html

http://forum.mflenses.com/sony-slt-mirror-replacement-t48606.html

http://thesybersite.com/sony/a55/index.htm#slt_mirror_removed
 
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