Originally posted by: alchemize
Just in case anyone wants cliff notes, to sum it up here's a few choice opinions:
Sultan:
"Taliban's "sexist" and "oppresive" regime had nothing to do with terrorism. "
Hatim:
"Christianity is an old religion. Gay preists? How low can they get? "
seriosly? No answer?
Hatim:
"The punnishment for being gay is throwind the criminals over a cliff, and throwing a rock over them. I know thats harsh, but gaydom the biggest cause of diseases. "
Thats correct
Hatim:
"(on execution of aethists) about that Atheist bit. Some clarification. This applies to Prisoners of war after they refuse invitation to Islam."
This too
Hatim:
Q: Would you classify OBL as a terrorist?
A: "Depends. Not without proof. "
How can you convict a person without proof? OBL is just a suspect. Is their 100% prrof?
Hatim:
"The west is pathetic for allowing gaydom and lesbaindom.....Soon theywill see the ill effects. Not too long before a western "society" will cease to exist. Ther are just like animals. Having sex with the same sex and even animals. They will grow mutated kids or something if they continue doing this. just SICK. Worst than animals. they people call themselves free people. But eventually all of them are going to end up in a destroyed land. AIDS, thats a quality of hmosexualness, even multiple illegal sex with whores. Man they dont even marry. All whores and Pimps. They depend on each other only for sex and money. Thats the only thing that they care about anyways. whats a family for. (except a few remaing) Its all about fun. Sex, food, sleep, and fun. How does that differ them from animals? Open sex, rapes by preists, sex my leaders. What has the USA come to anyways? "
true
Hatim, on execution of homosexuals:
"actually te state would take care of that. I neednt get involced into state affairs. "
why?
Hatim, more on homosexual execution. Thankfully, the legal system is well evolved:
"And for Homos, you need fore reliable witnesses who have seen explicitly or any other explicit proof before execution "'
correct
To sum it all up, Hatim on freedom:
"MAN these people start calling people not "normal" and flaming them just because they have different beliefs. And they call it "freedom"
Sour truth. If I cant beelive whatever I want who cares? Not that im harming anyone phyiscally
"
Originally posted by: hatim
how long before killing is legalized in the USA?
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
how long before killing is legalized in the USA?
I dunno. But I think we should visit Pakistan next.
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
how long before killing is legalized in the USA?
I dunno. But I think we should visit Pakistan next.
you are most welcomed. Do bring your family along. Here is a useful site for you : http://ko.offroadpakistan.com
And if by "WE" you mean your army, then thats an imperialistic statement. It is against your morals so think again.
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
how long before killing is legalized in the USA?
I dunno. But I think we should visit Pakistan next.
you are most welcomed. Do bring your family along. Here is a useful site for you : http://ko.offroadpakistan.com
And if by "WE" you mean your army, then thats an imperialistic statement. It is against your morals so think again.
Originally posted by: Sultan
Again, it is neither outdated, nor inferior. The taxation system is not forced upon non-Muslims, as I have said previously. They enter into a treaty, if they so choose. Please read the complete posts before making your opinions.
I hope you learn to make a more qualified approach on what you call "condemning" people. I have no qualms with you, but learning how to not judge people would make the world a better place.
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
how long before killing is legalized in the USA?
I dunno. But I think we should visit Pakistan next.
you are most welcomed. Do bring your family along. Here is a useful site for you : http://ko.offroadpakistan.com
And if by "WE" you mean your army, then thats an imperialistic statement. It is against your morals so think again.
Originally posted by: Sultan
Originally posted by: Ozoned
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by: hatim
"Nuff said
hatim
[snip]
History of the Crusades
Charles has collected some good resources about the real history of the Crusades.
I read Professor Thomas F. Madden's essay, The Real History of the Crusades, a few days ago, and it's very good (excerpts below). In addition, the Catholic Encyclopedia's entry on the Crusades seems packed with info. I've always been impressed with the Catholic Encyclopedia. I couldn't disagree more strongly with its theology, but generally in factual matters it seems to be top notch.
Conventional wisdom says that the Crusades were wars of imperialism and plunder by medieval Christendom, but in actuality they were largely defensive wars against (what else...) Islam.
While Muslims can be peaceful, Islam was born in war and grew the same way. From the time of Mohammed, the means of Muslim expansion was always the sword. Muslim thought divides the world into two spheres, the Abode of Islam and the Abode of War. Christianity?and for that matter any other non-Muslim religion?has no abode. Christians and Jews can be tolerated within a Muslim state under Muslim rule. But, in traditional Islam, Christian and Jewish states must be destroyed and their lands conquered. When Mohammed was waging war against Mecca in the seventh century, Christianity was the dominant religion of power and wealth. As the faith of the Roman Empire, it spanned the entire Mediterranean, including the Middle East, where it was born. The Christian world, therefore, was a prime target for the earliest caliphs, and it would remain so for Muslim leaders for the next thousand years.
With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed?s death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt?once the most heavily Christian areas in the world?quickly succumbed. By the eighth century, Muslim armies had conquered all of Christian North Africa and Spain. In the eleventh century, the Seljuk Turks conquered Asia Minor (modern Turkey), which had been Christian since the time of St. Paul. The old Roman Empire, known to modern historians as the Byzantine Empire, was reduced to little more than Greece. In desperation, the emperor in Constantinople sent word to the Christians of western Europe asking them to aid their brothers and sisters in the East.
One might think that three centuries of Christian defeats would have soured Europeans on the idea of Crusade. Not at all. In one sense, they had little alternative. Muslim kingdoms were becoming more, not less, powerful in the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries. The Ottoman Turks conquered not only their fellow Muslims, thus further unifying Islam, but also continued to press westward, capturing Constantinople and plunging deep into Europe itself. By the 15th century, the Crusades were no longer errands of mercy for a distant people but desperate attempts of one of the last remnants of Christendom to survive. Europeans began to ponder the real possibility that Islam would finally achieve its aim of conquering the entire Christian world.
I've posted about this before, and hey, look at that... I quoted Thomas Madden then too.
What this should teach us is that the current conflict is in no way a new face on Islam. In fact, Islam is in some ways more dangerous than ever, and will become moreso as its followers gain access to weapons of mass destruction. After the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and the Protestant Reformation, and the ensuing explosion of scientific discovery, exploration, economic growth, and freedom, it seems that Islamic societies were marginalized simply because they couldn't compete anymore. The world had moved on. I think it's telling that the only reason Islam is a danger to us again is because they're starting to gain access to weapons that the west created. [/snip]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The war is and has been waged by Islam since its begining. Everthing that has happened to engage Islam in this war could be viewed as a defense. Iraq is just a fraction of it.
I am a realist. I know that there are two choices and only two. Islam or not Islam. When one choice is eliminated, the war will be over.
Anyone or anything that finds itself outside of the bounds of these two choices, like some of the Iraq situation, is just another casualty of the bigger war.
Maybe in another thousand years there will be peace, but don't hold your breath.
I will not bow to Islam, or any man that tells me I must.
And we call Al-Qaeda/Taliban extremists :roll:
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
how long before killing is legalized in the USA?
I dunno. But I think we should visit Pakistan next.
you are most welcomed. Do bring your family along. Here is a useful site for you : http://ko.offroadpakistan.com
And if by "WE" you mean your army, then thats an imperialistic statement. It is against your morals so think again.
I'll bring along all of my homosexual and atheist friends.
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
how long before killing is legalized in the USA?
I dunno. But I think we should visit Pakistan next.
you are most welcomed. Do bring your family along. Here is a useful site for you : http://ko.offroadpakistan.com
And if by "WE" you mean your army, then thats an imperialistic statement. It is against your morals so think again.
Who said I had any morals? Maybe I dont see anything wrong with imperialism. You should have an open mind.
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
how long before killing is legalized in the USA?
I dunno. But I think we should visit Pakistan next.
you are most welcomed. Do bring your family along. Here is a useful site for you : http://ko.offroadpakistan.com
And if by "WE" you mean your army, then thats an imperialistic statement. It is against your morals so think again.
Who said I had any morals? Maybe I dont see anything wrong with imperialism. You should have an open mind.
Weel thats fine but it against America's morals
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
how long before killing is legalized in the USA?
I dunno. But I think we should visit Pakistan next.
you are most welcomed. Do bring your family along. Here is a useful site for you : http://ko.offroadpakistan.com
And if by "WE" you mean your army, then thats an imperialistic statement. It is against your morals so think again.
Who said I had any morals? Maybe I dont see anything wrong with imperialism. You should have an open mind.
Weel thats fine but it against America's morals
Who are you to decide what American's 'morals' are?
No country in existence today is completely based off of 'morals'.
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Originally posted by: hatim
how long before killing is legalized in the USA?
I dunno. But I think we should visit Pakistan next.
you are most welcomed. Do bring your family along. Here is a useful site for you : http://ko.offroadpakistan.com
And if by "WE" you mean your army, then thats an imperialistic statement. It is against your morals so think again.
Who said I had any morals? Maybe I dont see anything wrong with imperialism. You should have an open mind.
Weel thats fine but it against America's morals
Who are you to decide what American's 'morals' are?
No country in existence today is completely based off of 'morals'.
My point.
They same something and do something else.\
thankyou
Originally posted by: alchemize
Just in case anyone wants cliff notes, to sum it up here's a few choice opinions:
Sultan:
"Taliban's "sexist" and "oppresive" regime had nothing to do with terrorism. "
Hatim:
"Christianity is an old religion. Gay preists? How low can they get? "
Hatim:
"The punnishment for being gay is throwind the criminals over a cliff, and throwing a rock over them. I know thats harsh, but gaydom the biggest cause of diseases. "
Hatim:
"(on execution of aethists) about that Atheist bit. Some clarification. This applies to Prisoners of war after they refuse invitation to Islam."
Hatim:
Q: Would you classify OBL as a terrorist?
A: "Depends. Not without proof. "
Hatim:
"The west is pathetic for allowing gaydom and lesbaindom.....Soon theywill see the ill effects. Not too long before a western "society" will cease to exist. Ther are just like animals. Having sex with the same sex and even animals. They will grow mutated kids or something if they continue doing this. just SICK. Worst than animals. they people call themselves free people. But eventually all of them are going to end up in a destroyed land. AIDS, thats a quality of hmosexualness, even multiple illegal sex with whores. Man they dont even marry. All whores and Pimps. They depend on each other only for sex and money. Thats the only thing that they care about anyways. whats a family for. (except a few remaing) Its all about fun. Sex, food, sleep, and fun. How does that differ them from animals? Open sex, rapes by preists, sex my leaders. What has the USA come to anyways? "
Hatim, on execution of homosexuals:
"actually te state would take care of that. I neednt get involced into state affairs. "
Hatim, more on homosexual execution. Thankfully, the legal system is well evolved:
"And for Homos, you need fore reliable witnesses who have seen explicitly or any other explicit proof before execution "
To sum it all up, Hatim on freedom:
"MAN these people start calling people not "normal" and flaming them just because they have different beliefs. And they call it "freedom" "
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: Sultan
Again, it is neither outdated, nor inferior. The taxation system is not forced upon non-Muslims, as I have said previously. They enter into a treaty, if they so choose. Please read the complete posts before making your opinions.
I hope you learn to make a more qualified approach on what you call "condemning" people. I have no qualms with you, but learning how to not judge people would make the world a better place.
Yes, it is outdated and inferior. A system that now differentiates people based on their religious beliefs. A 'tax' or 'treaty' used to protect people during tribal times. That's not outdated and inferior? Hilarious.
Yes, you amended it after I hounded you on it. We all saw your atrocious views. You saw how many of us were horrified. I'm happy that we actually changed your views and beliefs, but I'm afraid that it may only be an appearance on these forums. I hope you have learned a lesson here.
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Some beliefs aren't meant to be respected - such as apartheid and mass-scale discrimination.
Originally posted by: Sultan
It is not outdated and inferior. If the non-Muslims choose to enter into a treaty, they can do so by paying Jizyah.
Your actions have nothing to do with correcting my first statement, as I had already corrected myself in my subsequent posts. Sorry to steal away your few moments of happiness.
I do not care how horrified anyone was. I respect their beliefs. I respect yours.
My views and beliefs have not changed.
Yes, it is outdated and inferior. Any tax system that discriminates between Muslims and 'non-Muslims' is inherently discriminatory. A system created in tribal times and is no longer necessary is outdated. Yes, this outdated inferior and archaic Jizyah is inferior because it's discriminatory in nature.
I believe that my actions along with many here who have displayed their disbelief at your outright support of a discriminatory system have partially amended your own belief system. I still take pride in this. At least some good has come out of this discussion.
I hope that you have learned a very valuable lesson here.
I did not respect your beliefs at the time. I still do not respect your beliefs in support of an inherently discriminatory system. I don't respect the beliefs of maniacs like Hitler, etc. Not that I'm grouping you with those monsters, but atrocious, racist, discriminatory, and so on beliefs deserve absolutely no respect.
Sorry to hear that your views have not mostly changed.
Since you're an overly opinionated person, you can keep on claiming that it is outdated and inferior. Your saying so is not going to stop it from being practiced where it is being practiced, nor would it change the minds of Muslims who know it is part of the religion.
My belief system is not based on your actions or others actions. I have not amended my belief system. You can take whatever pride you get from this forum. More power to you.
You seem to repeat this line a lot I am thankful I didnt learn anything from you.
i dont care if you respect my beliefs or not. I still respect yours. what do i care about your respect of my beliefs? your respect is not going to bring me any joy.
not "mostly", they have not changed at all.
Originally posted by: hatim
Well, as it has happened, america has gotten itself strangles in IRAQ. No way out for them it seems.
Well, why is it calling muslim coutries to help. Like Pakistan for example? As if they ever listened to anyone before they invaded in the first place. No U.N backing. Wanted to go alone. Then be there alone. Let them die alone. No ones gonna help them. Like USA ever helped anyone in need. If the USA is done, so is its friendships. So if the USA needs other countries, why should It expect help?
And now America has its eyes towards Iran. Does it want to englulf the whole of the muslim world or what. France, Germany and Russia have already realized the situation. So has China. Only little poodle Blair is blind. Imperialism is back I say.
President Allawi in Iraq is a total puupet. Judging from his comments "Militants should leave Najaf" Why should they? First the USA bombard the shrine of Imam Ali, and tell the people there to leave? WTF? If Allawi doesnt want bloodshed he should demand the americans to leave or if not both. He knows the militants will not back out. To prevent fighting in the holy city, americans should get the hell out of there. Why be there? Its not that they are goning to create more security. Just power hungry.
And back at home, we are bearing the brunt of America's wars. All roads leading to the US consulate are closed. Takes 15 more mins to cross the major part of the city. Why should we have to suffer because of the stupidity of USA's actions.
"Nuff said
hatim
Originally posted by: hatim
So back to the original question.
"Why should muslim coutried help USA in IRAQ when the USA has never helped them in times of need?"