Why fight America's war?

[K1052]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: oreagan

Why? Just because it is not a "Christian"/Democratic government, or like America/Canada, why can't we respect other countries' way to govern the way they wish? We may not agree with the practices of the govt., but far be it for us to play god and tell them what is right and wrong.

Conversely, it would be the same if a Muslim country came here, and imposed those standards of practice on us. That would be disgusting. As such, our actions which are equivelant to those mentioned above are what is disgusting, not Muslim/Middle eastern practices.

No, because discrimination and totalitarianism are against Western thought and experience of the past few hundred years, whether you're talking "natural law" or the modern "human rights." Locke, Mill, Jefferson, Adams, these names familiar to you? The Western world tried the religious government deal for a very long time and the result was hundreds of years and millions of lives given to war and oppression. Dictatorships and opressive regimes are not Dutch clogs that we're laughing at because it's different.

Islamic practices are neither discriminatory or totalitarian. In fact, the concept of democracy was concieved right after the death of Prophet Mohammad when the new Caliph was chosen by declaration of support from the people of Islam (the process was referred to as Baith). The former sentence was but one of many examples of the unique ideas brought forth by the coming of Islam, some of which Western nations have adopted and succeeded with. Then again, Malaysia is an example of a Muslim nation (not entirely a theocratic nation), an Eastern nation that has succeeded while practicing much of Sharia or Islamic law.

A theocratic Islamic government did work for many years, hundreds of years, before declining and breaking up. An Islamic government does not imply dictatorship or oppression.

lol, sure...

and why does that seem funny and/or unbelievable to you?

Because it's obviously false. Every religion has come up with many important things, so why are you so obviously lying and saying that democracy was created by Islam when there are all other sorts of things to talk about instead.

No, I said the concept of popular vote / democracy was presented by the actions of baith when the new caliph was chosen. I dont need to lie. You can read up on the ascension of Caliph Abu Bakr to the caliphate after Prophet Mohammad's death. The majority of people voted for him to be the caliph while a section of the society wanted the caliphate to be hereditary and wanted Hazrat Ali (cousin / son-in-law). This created the political differences which was the root cause of the creation of Sunni and Shia Islam.

The concept of democracy was out there well before Islam was even founded.

Did you know that computers were invented by Buddhists in 100 ad?

You know, I kind of recall this place called Greece.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Why fight America's war?





Here is a reason

a post from Riprorin is your reason? the following posts in that thread itself say otherwise.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: K1052

You know, I kind of recall this place called Greece.

that's crazy talk!

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: K1052
You know, I kind of recall this place called Greece.

Yeah, that mythical placed with Ancient Athens...you know, the very origin of the word 'democracy'...

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: oreagan

Why? Just because it is not a "Christian"/Democratic government, or like America/Canada, why can't we respect other countries' way to govern the way they wish? We may not agree with the practices of the govt., but far be it for us to play god and tell them what is right and wrong.

Conversely, it would be the same if a Muslim country came here, and imposed those standards of practice on us. That would be disgusting. As such, our actions which are equivelant to those mentioned above are what is disgusting, not Muslim/Middle eastern practices.

No, because discrimination and totalitarianism are against Western thought and experience of the past few hundred years, whether you're talking "natural law" or the modern "human rights." Locke, Mill, Jefferson, Adams, these names familiar to you? The Western world tried the religious government deal for a very long time and the result was hundreds of years and millions of lives given to war and oppression. Dictatorships and opressive regimes are not Dutch clogs that we're laughing at because it's different.

Islamic practices are neither discriminatory or totalitarian. In fact, the concept of democracy was concieved right after the death of Prophet Mohammad when the new Caliph was chosen by declaration of support from the people of Islam (the process was referred to as Baith). The former sentence was but one of many examples of the unique ideas brought forth by the coming of Islam, some of which Western nations have adopted and succeeded with. Then again, Malaysia is an example of a Muslim nation (not entirely a theocratic nation), an Eastern nation that has succeeded while practicing much of Sharia or Islamic law.

A theocratic Islamic government did work for many years, hundreds of years, before declining and breaking up. An Islamic government does not imply dictatorship or oppression.

lol, sure...

and why does that seem funny and/or unbelievable to you?

Because it's obviously false. Every religion has come up with many important things, so why are you so obviously lying and saying that democracy was created by Islam when there are all other sorts of things to talk about instead.

No, I said the concept of popular vote / democracy was presented by the actions of baith when the new caliph was chosen. I dont need to lie. You can read up on the ascension of Caliph Abu Bakr to the caliphate after Prophet Mohammad's death. The majority of people voted for him to be the caliph while a section of the society wanted the caliphate to be hereditary and wanted Hazrat Ali (cousin / son-in-law). This created the political differences which was the root cause of the creation of Sunni and Shia Islam.

The concept of democracy was out there well before Islam was even founded.

Did you know that computers were invented by Buddhists in 100 ad?

You know, I kind of recall this place called Greece.

Sorry, but I was not aware of this fact. You are right. Thank you for correcting me.

 

[Monorprise]

Originally posted by: hatim
Well, as it has happened, america has gotten itself strangles in IRAQ. No way out for them it seems.

Well, why is it calling muslim coutries to help. Like Pakistan for example? As if they ever listened to anyone before they invaded in the first place. No U.N backing. Wanted to go alone. Then be there alone. Let them die alone. No ones gonna help them. Like USA ever helped anyone in need. If the USA is done, so is its friendships. So if the USA needs other countries, why should It expect help?

Iraq was a good war, for a good cause, I?m not about to cut and run now. That?s not the kind of man I am, and given the choice to do it even if we had taken 10,000 deaths. I would still do it. Bringing freedom to the Muslim world is the only long term way to combat and end the appeal of terrorism, and Islamic extremism. That?s exactly what we are in effect doing in Iraq. If other Islamic countries, or other countries in general don?t want to help, fine. We cant make them, I don?t care anyway.
We already have formed under Bush?s leadership the largest collation of support for this mission in this history of mankind. The assertion that we went in with out support is quite frankly ridicules, where the facts are concerned. We just didn?t do it with Germany, France, or Russia. Those nations hardly constitute the world. But 2 of them do have Permanent member veto power on the UN Security council.
If you want to get perspective of the Iraq war from the Iraqi perspective, which is what should really court, here is a forum setup for America, by an Iraqi in Iraq, to give us their story.
Iraqi forum in Iraq for Americans, and outsiders

Originally posted by: hatim
And now America has its eyes towards Iran. Does it want to englulf the whole of the muslim world or what. France, Germany and Russia have already realized the situation. So has China. Only little poodle Blair is blind. Imperialism is back I say.

America wants to free the Muslim world from the oppression that cripples it and supports Terrorism, and quite frankly so should you!
If it is Imperialism it is something I think I can be proud of.
We Humans are at the begin of a revolution a Freedom revolution around the world, and America will, if we let it, be the tool for that revolution, as we have always been. If you had any moral strength left within you would want to support and be part of this Revolution, and not be one to exclude Arabs because of the stereotypes you put on them. They can be just as free as we are, if we are willing to go in there and help them out!!

Originally posted by: hatim
President Allawi in Iraq is a total puupet. Judging from his comments "Militants should leave Najaf" Why should they? First the USA bombard the shrine of Imam Ali, and tell the people there to leave? WTF? If Allawi doesnt want bloodshed he should demand the americans to leave or if not both. He knows the militants will not back out. To prevent fighting in the holy city, americans should get the hell out of there. Why be there? Its not that they are goning to create more security. Just power hungry.

What do you expect? The new Iraqi government is a parliament system that means the President is simply a figure head, just like our neighbor Canada?s governor General.
The real head of government is the Prime minister, who was in fact the one to ask the collation leaders to help him retake the city of Najaf for Iraqi, from the rogue Islamic militant?s cleric, we had hope this wouldn?t be necessary, as we did not want to cause any damage to any Islamic holy sites. But the cleric refused to, back down and submit to the new Iraqi government, leaving us with only 1 option force, and it was there call, not ours in this case.

Originally posted by: hatim
And back at home, we are bearing the brunt of America's wars. All roads leading to the US consulate are closed. Takes 15 more mins to cross the major part of the city. Why should we have to suffer because of the stupidity of USA's actions.

"Nuff said
hatim

Where are you from? I?m sorry if the safety of our embassies from your people is a problem for you. Perhaps you should be more positive, about Americans, and maybe it wouldn?t be necessary? In the mean time stay out of our elections, we don?t bug in yours.

 

[Sultan]

Iraq was a good war, for a good cause, I?m not about to cut and run now. That?s not the kind of man I am, and given the choice to do it even if we had taken 10,000 deaths. I would still do it. Bringing freedom to the Muslim world is the only long term way to combat and end the appeal of terrorism, and Islamic extremism. That?s exactly what we are in effect doing in Iraq. If other Islamic countries, or other countries in general don?t want to help, fine. We cant make them, I don?t care anyway.
We already have formed under Bush?s leadership the largest collation of support for this mission in this history of mankind. The assertion that we went in with out support is quite frankly ridicules, where the facts are concerned. We just didn?t do it with Germany, France, or Russia. Those nations hardly constitute the world. But 2 of them do have Permanent member veto power on the UN Security council.
If you want to get perspective of the Iraq war from the Iraqi perspective, which is what should really court, here is a forum setup for America, by an Iraqi in Iraq, to give us their story.

Maybe thats exactly what bin Laden thinks, and your so called "Islamic extremists" think. They believe by killing 3000 Americans in the WTC would bring their so called freedom to America. Stop with your crap. If it was your mother and father and children amongst the 10000 dead, maybe you'd be thinking different.

The so-called "coalition" is mostly there for oil. Open your eyes stupid man. Check the contributions of your coalition. Apart from the US, Britain and Australia, no other nation has contributed significantly. The United States did go in without support.

America wants to free the Muslim world from the oppression that cripples it and supports Terrorism, and quite frankly so should you!
If it is Imperialism it is something I think I can be proud of.
We Humans are at the begin of a revolution a Freedom revolution around the world, and America will, if we let it, be the tool for that revolution, as we have always been. If you had any moral strength left within you would want to support and be part of this Revolution, and not be one to exclude Arabs because of the stereotypes you put on them. They can be just as free as we are, if we are willing to go in there and help them out!!

Blah blah balh.

What do you expect? The new Iraqi government is a parliament system that means the President is simply a figure head, just like our neighbor Canada?s governor General.
The real head of government is the Prime minister, who was in fact the one to ask the collation leaders to help him retake the city of Najaf for Iraqi, from the rogue Islamic militant?s cleric, we had hope this wouldn?t be necessary, as we did not want to cause any damage to any Islamic holy sites. But the cleric refused to, back down and submit to the new Iraqi government, leaving us with only 1 option force, and it was there call, not ours in this case.

The Prime Minister is regarded all over the world as a puppet head of the our Government. The "Islamic militant" in his new found freedom can do as he chooses. Why is our government giving him problems, shutting down his newspaper and so on and so forth? Point being what this government likes is the freedom others have to accept? You're quite stupid.

 

[Gaard]

Monorprise - if there were no perceived threat, Saddam would still be in power and we wouldn't be on this mission to "bring freedom to the Muslim world." Agree or disagree?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: tart666

Originally posted by: alchemize
Just in case anyone wants cliff notes, to sum it up here's a few choice opinions:

Sultan:
"Taliban's "sexist" and "oppresive" regime had nothing to do with terrorism. "

Hatim:
"Christianity is an old religion. Gay preists? How low can they get? "

Hatim:
"The punnishment for being gay is throwind the criminals over a cliff, and throwing a rock over them. I know thats harsh, but gaydom the biggest cause of diseases. "

Hatim:
"(on execution of aethists) about that Atheist bit. Some clarification. This applies to Prisoners of war after they refuse invitation to Islam."


Hatim:
Q: Would you classify OBL as a terrorist?
A: "Depends. Not without proof. "

Hatim:
"The west is pathetic for allowing gaydom and lesbaindom.....Soon theywill see the ill effects. Not too long before a western "society" will cease to exist. Ther are just like animals. Having sex with the same sex and even animals. They will grow mutated kids or something if they continue doing this. just SICK. Worst than animals. they people call themselves free people. But eventually all of them are going to end up in a destroyed land. AIDS, thats a quality of hmosexualness, even multiple illegal sex with whores. Man they dont even marry. All whores and Pimps. They depend on each other only for sex and money. Thats the only thing that they care about anyways. whats a family for. (except a few remaing) Its all about fun. Sex, food, sleep, and fun. How does that differ them from animals? Open sex, rapes by preists, sex my leaders. What has the USA come to anyways? "

Hatim, on execution of homosexuals:
"actually te state would take care of that. I neednt get involced into state affairs. "

Hatim, more on homosexual execution. Thankfully, the legal system is well evolved:
"And for Homos, you need fore reliable witnesses who have seen explicitly or any other explicit proof before execution "


To sum it all up, Hatim on freedom:
"MAN these people start calling people not "normal" and flaming them just because they have different beliefs. And they call it "freedom" "

hahaha, lmao, good job, alchemize

Good job indeed. What an ass.