Why fight America's war?

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan
WTF!!! How many times have I said that Muslims pay 2.5% as Zakat and the Non-Muslims dont, instead they pay Jizyah!!! Add a mass scale lying to your resume!

Add mass lying to your own resume. As you have stated:

All non-muslims receive protection under an Islamic government. They are taxed a bit more, and the tax is called Jizyah.

Nice lie. You also defended the idea of a discriminatory tax. Nice try.

Now either admit that taxing people differently based on their religion or any other similar characteristic is wrong and discriminatory, or go back to your hate filled world.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I like how you defended a discriminatory system with the following discussion:

You: All non-muslims receive protection under an Islamic government. They are taxed a bit more, and the tax is called Jizyah.

Me: Well that's messed up. Is this commonly practiced?

You: what seems illogical to you may not seem the same to others. keep an open mind

Great logic, Sultan!

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan
WTF!!! How many times have I said that Muslims pay 2.5% as Zakat and the Non-Muslims dont, instead they pay Jizyah!!! Add a mass scale lying to your resume!

Add mass lying to your own resume. As you have stated:

All non-muslims receive protection under an Islamic government. They are taxed a bit more, and the tax is called Jizyah.

Nice lie. You also defended the idea of a discriminatory tax. Nice try.

Now either admit that taxing people differently based on their religion or any other similar characteristic is wrong and discriminatory, or go back to your hate filled world.

Let me correct my above statement. They are taxed according to the government of the Islamic nations agreement with the representatives of non-Muslims. This can be more than the tax levied on Muslims or it can be less. The tax is not imposed, it is negotiated, when non-Muslims enter into a treaty, or contract. Non-Muslims need not enter into a treaty. They can choose to not pay Jizyah. I hope this pacifies you a bit.

Again, I repeat, there is nothing discriminatory about this form of taxation. If you disagree, please carry on barking.

 

[CanOWorms]

Apartheid is a good system. Just keep an open mind.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Sultan
WTF!!! How many times have I said that Muslims pay 2.5% as Zakat and the Non-Muslims dont, instead they pay Jizyah!!! Add a mass scale lying to your resume!

Add mass lying to your own resume. As you have stated:

All non-muslims receive protection under an Islamic government. They are taxed a bit more, and the tax is called Jizyah.

Nice lie. You also defended the idea of a discriminatory tax. Nice try.

Now either admit that taxing people differently based on their religion or any other similar characteristic is wrong and discriminatory, or go back to your hate filled world.

Let me correct my above statement. They are taxed according to the government of the Islamic nations agreement with the representatives of non-Muslims. This can be more than the tax levied on Muslims or it can be less. The tax is not imposed, it is negotiated, when non-Muslims enter into a treaty, or contract. Non-Muslims need not enter into a treaty. They can choose to not pay Jizyah. I hope this pacifies you a bit.

Again, I repeat, there is nothing discriminatory about this form of taxation. If you disagree, please carry on barking.

Nice to see you back off your statement now. I hope that this has been a very educational lesson for you. Openly supporting a discriminatory system is horrendous and will only make you look worse. I can only hope that most of us can forget about your atrocious behavior and statements.

It is not as bad as your previous statement, but still religion should have no place in taxation.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Apartheid is a good system. Just keep an open mind.

ok, let me give all a complete historical account of how Jizyah came into practice and is part of Islam.

when people used to fight on camels and horses with swords and bows and arrows, non-Muslims would live in the Islamic nation, mostly in their own communities or tribes. the protection afforded to them by the payment of jizyah was not only for their protection against neighboring Muslim tribes, but also against foreign elements, by the government of the Islamic nation. it also served as a means of a sort of treaty with the Muslim nation.

jizyah also meant non-Muslims did not need to serve in the military. they were exempt. any Muslim who chose not to serve in the military could also pay their way out by paying jizyah.

mr mongoose, i mistakenly said once that the tax is higher, but in many more posts, i clearly indicated that Muslims pay zakat, and non-muslims pay jizyah, as non-Muslims do not need to pay zakat.

i hope next time you will learn to have a more balanced approach to listening to other people's views, and not get your record stuck on one post.

again, i do not see any discrimination, nor do I share your opinion that religion has no affairs in the running of the state

 

[RabidMongoose]

mr mongoose, i mistakenly said once that the tax is higher, but in many more posts, i clearly indicated that Muslims pay zakat, and non-muslims pay jizyah, as non-Muslims do not need to pay zakat.

i hope next time you will learn to have a more balanced approach to listening to other people's views, and not get your record stuck on one post.

again, i do not see any discrimination, nor do I share your opinion that religion has no affairs in the running of the state

Mr. Sultan, you clearly showed your favor for a discriminatory system, which resulted in multiple posts from multiple members condemning you. Now you decided to 'amend' your declaration since I have hounded you on it. I hope that this has been a valuable lesson for you. I hope next time you will learn to have a more accepting belief in people. It can only do you good.

In addition, the entire concept of 'jizyah' and religious taxation is inherently inferior and ridiculous. What a great concept - to implement a clearly outdated and inferior 'taxation' system to differentiate between different peoples. How tolerant.

 

[feelingshorter]

Originally posted by: kaizersose

Originally posted by: hatim
Well, as it has happened, america has gotten itself strangles in IRAQ. No way out for them it seems.

Well, why is it calling muslim coutries to help. Like Pakistan for example? As if they ever listened to anyone before they invaded in the first place. No U.N backing. Wanted to go alone. Then be there alone. Let them die alone. No ones gonna help them. Like USA ever helped anyone in need. If the USA is done, so is its friendships. So if the USA needs other countries, why should It expect help?

And now America has its eyes towards Iran. Does it want to englulf the whole of the muslim world or what. France, Germany and Russia have already realized the situation. So has China. Only little poodle Blair is blind. Imperialism is back I say.

President Allawi in Iraq is a total puupet. Judging from his comments "Militants should leave Najaf" Why should they? First the USA bombard the shrine of Imam Ali, and tell the people there to leave? WTF? If Allawi doesnt want bloodshed he should demand the americans to leave or if not both. He knows the militants will not back out. To prevent fighting in the holy city, americans should get the hell out of there. Why be there? Its not that they are goning to create more security. Just power hungry.

And back at home, we are bearing the brunt of America's wars. All roads leading to the US consulate are closed. Takes 15 more mins to cross the major part of the city. Why should we have to suffer because of the stupidity of USA's actions.

"Nuff said
hatim

a lot to respond to here but....

"Like USA ever helped anyone in need"
We help people in need all of the time. Who was the first one to offer assistance when an entire town was leveled by an earthquake in iran? who provides more support for AIDS research than the entire rest of the world combined? who is always on hand to deliver supplies when there is a humanitarian disaster. just because you dont like one aspect of our foreign policy, dont classify the US as the world's source of evil.

"First the USA bombard the shrine of Imam Ali"
dont even get started with this. the terrorists stage operations from the mosques all the time because they know the second they get attacked they can scream holy war. they fire mortars from the cemetary and take potshots all the time. they ar fighting a war of public opinion and trying to incite a holy war by using an ancient holy shrine as a hostage.

i agree, otherwise i agree with rest of post

 

[crisscross]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: hatim
Well, as it has happened, america has gotten itself strangles in IRAQ. No way out for them it seems.

Well, why is it calling muslim coutries to help. Like Pakistan for example? As if they ever listened to anyone before they invaded in the first place. No U.N backing. Wanted to go alone. Then be there alone. Let them die alone. No ones gonna help them. Like USA ever helped anyone in need. If the USA is done, so is its friendships. So if the USA needs other countries, why should It expect help?

And now America has its eyes towards Iran. Does it want to englulf the whole of the muslim world or what. France, Germany and Russia have already realized the situation. So has China. Only little poodle Blair is blind. Imperialism is back I say.

President Allawi in Iraq is a total puupet. Judging from his comments "Militants should leave Najaf" Why should they? First the USA bombard the shrine of Imam Ali, and tell the people there to leave? WTF? If Allawi doesnt want bloodshed he should demand the americans to leave or if not both. He knows the militants will not back out. To prevent fighting in the holy city, americans should get the hell out of there. Why be there? Its not that they are goning to create more security. Just power hungry.

And back at home, we are bearing the brunt of America's wars. All roads leading to the US consulate are closed. Takes 15 more mins to cross the major part of the city. Why should we have to suffer because of the stupidity of USA's actions.

"Nuff said
hatim

Some of your comments are completely unfair.

Like USA ever helped anyone in need.

WW1, WW2, Korea? If it weren't for the U.S., South Korea would be ocntrolled by that nut job that controls and oppresses the poeple of North Korea. If not for the U.S., France and almost every other European countyr would be under the control of the Nazi's. And just about every Jew in Europe would be dead.

I agree that our decision to go to war in IRAQ was a poor one, but some of your statements are wrong. If you want to educate poeple on your cause then make sure to be fair in your criticism.

Hmm it's probably too late for my post but anywayz here goes.. Germany lost the war thanks mainly to the Russian weather (Siberia) and their enormous tank power..
just wanted to mention that..

 

[Red Dawn]

After reading Hatim and Sultan's posts one would be led to believe that Islam is driven by fear, hate and intolerance.

 

[arsbanned]

Yeah, I'm getting that impression too. And here I am trying to defend Islam against intolerance-to my Dad-and others. After reading this thread I'm I'm not so sure I should be doing that. Maybe the enemy really is Islam and not just the Wahhabis and Salabis.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yeah, I'm getting that impression too. And here I am trying to defend Islam against intolerance-to my Dad-and others. After reading this thread I'm I'm not so sure I should be doing that. Maybe the enemy really is Islam and not just the Wahhabis and Salabis.

Yeah it's kind of hard defending the undefensible.

 

[imported_tss4]

C'mon guys. Its not Islam. Its an extremist version of islam. The poverty of the area has just allowed this plague to spread.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yeah, I'm getting that impression too. And here I am trying to defend Islam against intolerance-to my Dad-and others. After reading this thread I'm I'm not so sure I should be doing that. Maybe the enemy really is Islam and not just the Wahhabis and Salabis.

Yeah it's kind of hard defending the undefensible.

yea people with religious beliefs of any kind are what's wrong with the world...

hey, anyone else want to crap out their mouth?

C'mon guys. Its not Islam. Its an extremist version of islam. The poverty of the area has just allowed this plague to spread.

it not exactly an extremist version of Islam, so much as a proper interpolation of Islam.

but their are a number of people improperly interpreting Islam, and they are quite acceptable.

?Christians? at war, on the other hand, aren?t following the new testament and are, at best, reformed former-Christian old-testament Jews.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yeah, I'm getting that impression too. And here I am trying to defend Islam against intolerance-to my Dad-and others. After reading this thread I'm I'm not so sure I should be doing that. Maybe the enemy really is Islam and not just the Wahhabis and Salabis.

Yeah it's kind of hard defending the undefensible.

yea people with religious beliefs of any kind are what's wrong with the world...

Wrong. Religious beliefs forced upon others is undefensible though.

hey, anyone else want to crap out their mouth?

Nah the stench from your festering Gob is more than enough.

 

[Mookow]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yeah, I'm getting that impression too. And here I am trying to defend Islam against intolerance-to my Dad-and others. After reading this thread I'm I'm not so sure I should be doing that. Maybe the enemy really is Islam and not just the Wahhabis and Salabis.

Yeah it's kind of hard defending the undefensible.

The few Muslims I've really interacted with here in the States have been cool. But they'll go out to the bars with me and order a beer + bacon cheeseburger. So they arent exactly following their religion "by the book", so to speak. OTOH, I dont know one Christian who truly lives "by the book", either, so...

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yeah, I'm getting that impression too. And here I am trying to defend Islam against intolerance-to my Dad-and others. After reading this thread I'm I'm not so sure I should be doing that. Maybe the enemy really is Islam and not just the Wahhabis and Salabis.

Yeah it's kind of hard defending the undefensible.

yea people with religious beliefs of any kind are what's wrong with the world...

hey, anyone else want to crap out their mouth?

C'mon guys. Its not Islam. Its an extremist version of islam. The poverty of the area has just allowed this plague to spread.

it not exactly an extremist version of Islam, so much as a proper interpolation of Islam.

but their are a number of people improperly interpreting Islam, and they are quite acceptable.

?Christians? at war, on the other hand, aren?t following the new testament and are, at best, reformed former-Christian old-testament Jews.

So you've studied Islam in detail? I'm suppose to take your word for what Islam really is over what many muslims have said?

Christian's don't go to war? Only Jews do?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: arsbanned
Yeah, I'm getting that impression too. And here I am trying to defend Islam against intolerance-to my Dad-and others. After reading this thread I'm I'm not so sure I should be doing that. Maybe the enemy really is Islam and not just the Wahhabis and Salabis.

To be frank, whatever these terrorists are doing is totally unacceptable?

Does anyone know what Jihad is? Its fight against one's soul. Thats the first stem. These terrorist wahabis have no right to call jihad. I agree that America has a right to live and mind its own affairs. But what I want to clear americans off is that while the government says something, its does completley differnt things or has completely differnt motives. If America wanted to wage war on IRAQ for OIL, then it has the right, but my telling the world otherwise and going to liberate and then cauising chaos is unacceptable. America is a free country and has the right to do what ever it pleases, you can pass your own laws and what not. Invade attack. But the thing that is so distressing is the was the american people have little insight to what is happening. Not deep enough. While your government tells you that they are going in for the goodwill of IRAQ, they end up doing something completly different.

I think, that every soveriegn government has the right to do as it pleases in internal affairs. You may not like it but afterall you are all "bushe's" people. He has to care for you. You are his priority. Must do whatever is best for contrymen. But it must mind its own buisness. Fine if a coutry threatens, go with war. With the entire country and not just government. As is the case in iraq, the governmnet is defeated but not the people. If both had been taken care of proir to assuming control, things would have been better off. This is not a rebellion because the USA doesnt have full control as yet. Its a fight, between and invading force and defendants. So what if its not an international army? It has every POW right. As if USA adheres to all international law, look at the invasion of IRAQ, guantamo, Abu Ghuraib. This is an external adventure, so it cannot just do whatever it likes. For internal policies, other people coudlnt give a damn about what they do, but its the foreign policy, very aggresive towards muslims that is bringing the worst in them.

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

mr mongoose, i mistakenly said once that the tax is higher, but in many more posts, i clearly indicated that Muslims pay zakat, and non-muslims pay jizyah, as non-Muslims do not need to pay zakat.

i hope next time you will learn to have a more balanced approach to listening to other people's views, and not get your record stuck on one post.

again, i do not see any discrimination, nor do I share your opinion that religion has no affairs in the running of the state

Mr. Sultan, you clearly showed your favor for a discriminatory system, which resulted in multiple posts from multiple members condemning you. Now you decided to 'amend' your declaration since I have hounded you on it. I hope that this has been a valuable lesson for you. I hope next time you will learn to have a more accepting belief in people. It can only do you good.

In addition, the entire concept of 'jizyah' and religious taxation is inherently inferior and ridiculous. What a great concept - to implement a clearly outdated and inferior 'taxation' system to differentiate between different peoples. How tolerant.

I do not favor any discriminatory system. I do not care if anyone condemns me. I dont take the same route of condemning anyone else for their religious beliefs.

I didnt "ammend" my declaration, I made the first post about Jizyah incorrect and subsequently, in all my other posts have maintained that while Muslims pay Zakat, Non-Muslims pay Jizyah. Equal but different. You can go back and read my other posts.

Again, it is neither outdated, nor inferior. The taxation system is not forced upon non-Muslims, as I have said previously. They enter into a treaty, if they so choose. Please read the complete posts before making your opinions.

I hope you learn to make a more qualified approach on what you call "condemning" people. I have no qualms with you, but learning how to not judge people would make the world a better place.

 

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

mr mongoose, i mistakenly said once that the tax is higher, but in many more posts, i clearly indicated that Muslims pay zakat, and non-muslims pay jizyah, as non-Muslims do not need to pay zakat.

i hope next time you will learn to have a more balanced approach to listening to other people's views, and not get your record stuck on one post.

again, i do not see any discrimination, nor do I share your opinion that religion has no affairs in the running of the state

Mr. Sultan, you clearly showed your favor for a discriminatory system, which resulted in multiple posts from multiple members condemning you. Now you decided to 'amend' your declaration since I have hounded you on it. I hope that this has been a valuable lesson for you. I hope next time you will learn to have a more accepting belief in people. It can only do you good.

In addition, the entire concept of 'jizyah' and religious taxation is inherently inferior and ridiculous. What a great concept - to implement a clearly outdated and inferior 'taxation' system to differentiate between different peoples. How tolerant.

I do not favor any discriminatory system. I do not care if anyone condemns me. I dont take the same route of condemning anyone else for their religious beliefs.

I didnt "ammend" my declaration, I made the first post about Jizyah incorrect and subsequently, in all my other posts have maintained that while Muslims pay Zakat, Non-Muslims pay Jizyah. Equal but different. You can go back and read my other posts.

Again, it is neither outdated, nor inferior. The taxation system is not forced upon non-Muslims, as I have said previously. They enter into a treaty, if they so choose. Please read the complete posts before making your opinions.

I hope you learn to make a more qualified approach on what you call "condemning" people. I have no qualms with you, but learning how to not judge people would make the world a better place.

History has shown many examples of how seperate is inherently unequal. While you claim that non-muslims could choose not to pay this tax. I find it hard to believe that would be received well by their muslim government. I also fail to see how they would have any bargaining power.

Besides, you've just described a system ripe for the wealthy to take advantage of. You said the muslims could choose to pay this tax to avoid military service. What would prevent all the well to do muslims from using this to avoid military service? Not only is your system inherintly descriminatory towards other religions, it openly promotes a class system.

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Tornado54

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: hatim
Well, as it has happened, america has gotten itself strangles in IRAQ. No way out for them it seems.

Well, why is it calling muslim coutries to help. Like Pakistan for example? As if they ever listened to anyone before they invaded in the first place. No U.N backing. Wanted to go alone. Then be there alone. Let them die alone. No ones gonna help them. Like USA ever helped anyone in need. If the USA is done, so is its friendships. So if the USA needs other countries, why should It expect help?

And now America has its eyes towards Iran. Does it want to englulf the whole of the muslim world or what. France, Germany and Russia have already realized the situation. So has China. Only little poodle Blair is blind. Imperialism is back I say.

President Allawi in Iraq is a total puupet. Judging from his comments "Militants should leave Najaf" Why should they? First the USA bombard the shrine of Imam Ali, and tell the people there to leave? WTF? If Allawi doesnt want bloodshed he should demand the americans to leave or if not both. He knows the militants will not back out. To prevent fighting in the holy city, americans should get the hell out of there. Why be there? Its not that they are goning to create more security. Just power hungry.

And back at home, we are bearing the brunt of America's wars. All roads leading to the US consulate are closed. Takes 15 more mins to cross the major part of the city. Why should we have to suffer because of the stupidity of USA's actions.

"Nuff said
hatim

Some of your comments are completely unfair.

Like USA ever helped anyone in need.

WW1, WW2, Korea? If it weren't for the U.S., South Korea would be ocntrolled by that nut job that controls and oppresses the poeple of North Korea. If not for the U.S., France and almost every other European countyr would be under the control of the Nazi's. And just about every Jew in Europe would be dead.

I agree that our decision to go to war in IRAQ was a poor one, but some of your statements are wrong. If you want to educate poeple on your cause then make sure to be fair in your criticism.

Hmm it's probably too late for my post but anywayz here goes.. Germany lost the war thanks mainly to the Russian weather (Siberia) and their enormous tank power..
just wanted to mention that..

Thats bullcrap... the Russian factors were just more factors leading to the defeat of Germany... if the USA had not gotten involved the Germans would have won... if it weren't for the Siberian Winter, the Germans would have won. It was more Hitler's stupidity in trying to take Stalingrad that lead to the german defeat on the eastern front. Far more so than Russian tank power, or even the winter.

-Max

 

[Sultan]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: Sultan

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

mr mongoose, i mistakenly said once that the tax is higher, but in many more posts, i clearly indicated that Muslims pay zakat, and non-muslims pay jizyah, as non-Muslims do not need to pay zakat.

i hope next time you will learn to have a more balanced approach to listening to other people's views, and not get your record stuck on one post.

again, i do not see any discrimination, nor do I share your opinion that religion has no affairs in the running of the state

Mr. Sultan, you clearly showed your favor for a discriminatory system, which resulted in multiple posts from multiple members condemning you. Now you decided to 'amend' your declaration since I have hounded you on it. I hope that this has been a valuable lesson for you. I hope next time you will learn to have a more accepting belief in people. It can only do you good.

In addition, the entire concept of 'jizyah' and religious taxation is inherently inferior and ridiculous. What a great concept - to implement a clearly outdated and inferior 'taxation' system to differentiate between different peoples. How tolerant.

I do not favor any discriminatory system. I do not care if anyone condemns me. I dont take the same route of condemning anyone else for their religious beliefs.

I didnt "ammend" my declaration, I made the first post about Jizyah incorrect and subsequently, in all my other posts have maintained that while Muslims pay Zakat, Non-Muslims pay Jizyah. Equal but different. You can go back and read my other posts.

Again, it is neither outdated, nor inferior. The taxation system is not forced upon non-Muslims, as I have said previously. They enter into a treaty, if they so choose. Please read the complete posts before making your opinions.

I hope you learn to make a more qualified approach on what you call "condemning" people. I have no qualms with you, but learning how to not judge people would make the world a better place.

History has shown many examples of how seperate is inherently unequal. While you claim that non-muslims could choose not to pay this tax. I find it hard to believe that would be received well by their muslim government. I also fail to see how they would have any bargaining power.

Besides, you've just described a system ripe for the wealthy to take advantage of. You said the muslims could choose to pay this tax to avoid military service. What would prevent all the well to do muslims from using this to avoid military service? Not only is your system inherintly descriminatory towards other religions, it openly promotes a class system.

Yes, I partially agree. History has also shown this system to work. But in the present times, it is evident that this system is not capable of being implemented correctly, mainly because of the weakening of a person's honor. In times when it was practiced, a man's honor and his word was as good as his life. Now, thats not the case, and therefore this system cannot be implemented, and it is not implemented in any Muslim nation (i didnt say Islamic nation).

If the non-Muslims chose not to participate, the Muslim government (of latter years) in my opinion would be happier, as they would not have to divide their resources exclusively for protecting the non-Muslim tribes. I can forward you historical examples of when the non-Muslims chose to enter into a treaty with the Muslims so that their tribe, caravans, etc could be protected by the Muslims who were undoubtedly greater in number in the Arab world. And I can also forward historical examples when the Muslim government returned the Jizyah to the non-Muslims when it was evident that the losing Muslim forces were unable to provide protection to the non-Muslims.

Yes, the wealthy could take advantage of it. Again, thats nothing new. Our president Bush didnt serve in the Vietnam war, did he? There's numerous examples of when a person can take advantage of his wealth, resources, power, to manipulate the system for his own good. Again, the reason was giving the loophole of paying Jizyah to be exempt from military service was not to buy your way out, but if a person was unable to serve in the military due to whatever reasons and circumstances, he could contribute Jizyah and strengthen the military with his financial resources. Again, we can hardly expect a the majority of folks nowadays to keep their honor held in the utmost regard.

 

[The Green Bean]

If I were you, I would stop discussing muslim states. Because none exists at this point in hostory. If one emerges, we will see what goes on.
For now, I have been taught "To respect, support, obey" every thing the country of residence has granted upon us"

 

[burnedout]

Oil, oil, oil, and maybe natural gas are the prime reasons for going to war.

John Kerry thinks otherwise:

Kerry: What I said is, I didn?t say never again, I said I don?t want them to be hostage.

Stripes: You think that?s what?s going on now?

Kerry: I think in the first war, their oil was a critical consideration, because Saddam Hussein?s intent was to take over the oil fields. Jim Baker said publicly that it had something to do with what we were doing.

Stripes: But our operations in Iraq right now, no?

Kerry: No. That?s not related directly to the oil ? and I never suggested that it is.

 

[alchemize]

Just in case anyone wants cliff notes, to sum it up here's a few choice opinions:

Sultan:
"Taliban's "sexist" and "oppresive" regime had nothing to do with terrorism. "

Hatim:
"Christianity is an old religion. Gay preists? How low can they get? "

Hatim:
"The punnishment for being gay is throwind the criminals over a cliff, and throwing a rock over them. I know thats harsh, but gaydom the biggest cause of diseases. "

Hatim:
"(on execution of aethists) about that Atheist bit. Some clarification. This applies to Prisoners of war after they refuse invitation to Islam."


Hatim:
Q: Would you classify OBL as a terrorist?
A: "Depends. Not without proof. "

Hatim:
"The west is pathetic for allowing gaydom and lesbaindom.....Soon theywill see the ill effects. Not too long before a western "society" will cease to exist. Ther are just like animals. Having sex with the same sex and even animals. They will grow mutated kids or something if they continue doing this. just SICK. Worst than animals. they people call themselves free people. But eventually all of them are going to end up in a destroyed land. AIDS, thats a quality of hmosexualness, even multiple illegal sex with whores. Man they dont even marry. All whores and Pimps. They depend on each other only for sex and money. Thats the only thing that they care about anyways. whats a family for. (except a few remaing) Its all about fun. Sex, food, sleep, and fun. How does that differ them from animals? Open sex, rapes by preists, sex my leaders. What has the USA come to anyways? "

Hatim, on execution of homosexuals:
"actually te state would take care of that. I neednt get involced into state affairs. "

Hatim, more on homosexual execution. Thankfully, the legal system is well evolved:
"And for Homos, you need fore reliable witnesses who have seen explicitly or any other explicit proof before execution "


To sum it all up, Hatim on freedom:
"MAN these people start calling people not "normal" and flaming them just because they have different beliefs. And they call it "freedom" "