Why is this system so hot?

[blake99]

Okay made some cooling modifications to my new system - its a heck of a lot quieter but my temps are way too high

System:

-Antec Sonata III case
-E6600 CPU, NOT overclocked
-Rear exhaust and front intake Noctua 120mm fans (1200RPM)
-Thermalright HR-01 heat sink
-Artic Silver 5 thermal paste (staight line of paste down center of CPU)
-Fan duct mounted to rear exhaust fan
-Asus P5N32E mobo

Temps (SpeeFan):

-Ambient (room) 26'C
-Motherboard 46'C
-CPU idle (die): 47'C
-CPU stress (die): 64'C


Any thoughts why these temps are essentially identical to my setup using the stock intel hsf? This is my first time mounting an aftermarket HSF etc, but I following the instructions carefully. I did NOT use a bolt thru kit on the 775, nor did i lap the heatsink.

 

[Cheex]

To be honest...

One cause might be that you used too much Arctic Silver.

 

[blake99]

I just followed the instruction on arcticsilver.com for applying AS5 to a core 2 duo CPU. They said their testing showed it works best as a strip down the center (I didnt apply any to the heat sink surface). Do you think this is too much?

Arctic Silver Application

 

[LOUISSSSS]

did u put only a thin (sheet of paper thickness) sheet of AS5 on it? are you sure u attached the HS/f on correctly? are there any messy wires blocking airflow in your case? is the HS/F spinning at max speeds?

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: blake99
Arctic Silver Application

Interesting!

I've never seen a C2D chip, before, with the lid removed...

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: VinDSL

Originally posted by: blake99
Arctic Silver Application

Interesting!

I've never seen a C2D chip, before, with the lid removed...

yeah vin, this is where a lot of people mess up.

Whats even funnier is when they try to do this on a Quadcore.

Quadcores have the die's lined top and bottom like this

0 1
2 3

Instead of the conventional
0
1

This is also another reason why you need to use the ApogeeGT a waterblock, so barbs are verticle and not horizontal.




When you decide to get your feet wet vin, i'll make sure you get it done right the first time.

 

[L00PY]

Your main problem are your case temps. +20 C over ambient is pretty bad. Are your cables nicely routed? Assuming your HSF is running full blast, you're gaining nothing by using those Noctunas -- try using case fans that push more air. Try removing that duct too.

 

[blake99]

loopy

re: motherboard temp +20'C above ambient

This is what i suspected, but i am not sure what exactly the "motherboard" temperature is? Is this the Northbridge or another hot mobo component, or is it representative of "case temp"? My board is an Asus P5N32-E

My cables are routed, I will try getting better case fans

 

[BonzaiDuck]

My best understanding of it about the "motherboard" temperature is this. The sensor is located near the Mosfets that surround the CPU.

42C is way too high. My guess is that it should be in the low 30's. Midtowers like the Sonata are not particularly well-known for providing high-CFM throughput of air, but the choice of the Noctua doesn't help, either. For a 120mm fan, I'm guessing that your intake CFM is not much more than 40, given the fan speed.

I also agree to the possibility that you used too much thermal paste, but this doesn't account for the temperature you're getting off the motherboard sensor.

Each motherboard of whatever manufacture would be different. My own experience shows an E6600 CPU temperature that often falls below the motherboard temperature at idle, and a motherboard temperature that doesn't vary by more than a couple degrees C [or K] above the idle value when the system is under load.

Also, check the heatsink-bottom of your HR-01 cooler. ThermalRight made some design decisions about these tower-heatpipe coolers, and I do not know whether the HR-01 was manufactured with a convex heatsink-base. Put a metal ruler on the heatsink base in both directions to determine whether it is flat or convex. If convex, I suggest that you lap it carefully.

I'd advise replacement of the intake fan -- specifically. Get a fan with a more powerful motor, such as a Panaflo M1, and use a utility like Speedfan to control the fan-speed according to your choice of temperature parameters on either the CPU or motherboard. Such a fan-choice should produce no more noise than the Noctua at its fan speed, and you should probably be able to limit the controlled "top-end" to around 2,000 rpm. With the right fan mounts, this will not be too noisy -- IMHO.

Keep the ThermalRight duct between the HR-01 and the rear exhaust. It would be even better if you had an auxiliary fan to exhaust air around the motherboard, but I believe you should be able to achieve lower temperatures with the Sonata "as-is" before resorting to any case-mods or motherboard-ducting improvements.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Also -- I had to review the specs on the HR-01. There seems to be a "Plus" model previewed on the TR website. I do not know for sure the thermal resistance of the HR-01, but I would guess that it is about par with the original Ultra-120. If not, it is still probably below 0.13 C/W.

The specs say the HR-01 is suitable for P4 (775) processors spec'd at 3.2+ Ghz. My own 3.4 Ghz Prescott has a TDP of around 103W, as compared to the 65W TDP of an E6600 running at stock speed. I'm using an SI-120 (TR) cooler with the Prescott, which shouldn't perform any better than the HR-01. It's OC'd to 3.8+ Ghz, and the load temperature at 70F doesn't crack 43C. Without motherboard ducting, I would expect a maximum load value between 45C and 47C.

So -- yes -- your temperatures seem too high -- significantly too high.

 

[WoodButcher]

Keep it simple to start with, Run with the case open, do the temps drop? 64-47=17,,, I've seen worse performances but in a hot case? This is what you have on your cpu? fan or no?

 

[blake99]

BonzaiDuck and WoodButcher:

Thanks for the info, you are helping me narrow down my problem.

I notice there are 2 copper heatsinks on the motherboard connected by a heat pipe very close to the CPU socket. These mobo heatsinks are extremely hot to touch. This Asus P5N32-E board is "passively" cooled by this system.

When I remove the side of the Sonata III case and put a room fan blowing on the system, the motherboard temp drops from 49'C to 39'C. The idle CPU temp parallel the mobo temp (usually running 2-3'C cooler) ex. 36'C in this scenario. When I stress the system with Ortho, CPU goes from 36'C to 56'C. (better than 64-66'C before!). But of course, running an open system with a huge fan blowing on it is impractical.

2 questions:

1. Do these numbers support a problem ONLY with case ventilation?
2. Does the rise in CPU temps from idle to stress (36'C to 56'C = 20'C rise) represent adequate CPU heat sink action (HR-01)?

Woodbutcher - yes I am using that setup, with the fan duct connected to the rear exhaust Noctua.

I think I will replace these 2 Noctuas. Too bad - I followed silentpcreview.com fan review and these came out on top - I missed the followup discussion regarding pressure/resistance issues. I am trying to minimize noise . I heard the Scythe SFlex fan's are good. Do you guys recommend these fans in my system??

Specs: Scythe SFF21E, 120mm, 1,200rpm, 20.1dBA 49.0CFM 0.15A.
See link (last one on page):
Scythe SFlex review

 

[WoodButcher]

#1 for the most part yes, the case needs more clean air. I've never used the Scythe fans you mentioned, I like the Yate Loons high speed w/ a fan control. I'd also recommend using another yates but an 80mm inside to direct air onto your mobo. you can make a bracket from a strip of sheet metal to mount almost anywhere. Another option would be to add a 120 intake to the bottom of your case right in the floor. Try that duct as an intake along w/ the front intake. Your psu will act as the exhaust and any other place air can escape. I have found SFF cases benefit from positive pressure when the air is directed to the right places.
#2 I think that 20 degree rise to be about right w/o fresh air. If you have that rear fan exhaust through the duct your drawing hot from the system through the sink.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'm not controverting Woodbutcher's advice, and in fact, he supports my position on certain things here.

Still making educated guesses, but it seems obvious to me now. Your 120mm exhaust fan is exclusively servicing the CPU cooler. You've got nothing but stagnant air hanging around the Northbridge, Southbridge and Mosfet heatsinks.

You need to get air flowing past those motherboard components. I now remember why, when my friend in New Mexico decided to buy some Sonata cases (he "flipped" them for a profit), I decided I didn't like the Sonata.

You have a couple choices. First, you could remove the orange duct for the CPU cooler, and begin drawing air from both the cooler and the area around it. This decreases the effectiveness of the cooler, but improves cooling of the other components.

There is a rectangular vent above the PCI slots in the case. If you can find one of those "slot-blower" fans and figure a way to fit it to this vent so that it exhausts air through it, you can can probably duct the motherboard to its intake and pull air off those chipset and Mosfet heatsinks.

For the latter, it's . . . . some work, but I think it would turn (what I consider to be) a mediocre case-design into a pretty cool computer.

The only other possibility would be to mod the case so there's another exhaust fan (a "round" one). Or you could attempt to exhaust air from the side-panel. But in order to do any of these things, you need to beef up your intake airflow. Woodbutcher is "right-on" about a case-bottom intake, but then you need to have the case lifted off the floor at least an inch (my personal solution is double-wheeled casters). With two 120mm intake ports, your noise level stays the same or drops. The case pressure increases. The ducting forces air past the motherboard components, and with some of the options above, you can keep the CPU-cooler duct -- with everything working toward much cooler temperatures.

Good luck.

 

[WoodButcher]

Originally posted by: BonzaiDuck
I'm not controverting Woodbutcher's advice, and in fact, he supports my position on certain things here.

Still making educated guesses, but it seems obvious to me now. Your 120mm exhaust fan is exclusively servicing the CPU cooler. You've got nothing but stagnant air hanging around the Northbridge, Southbridge and Mosfet heatsinks.

You need to get air flowing past those motherboard components. I now remember why, when my friend in New Mexico decided to buy some Sonata cases (he "flipped" them for a profit), I decided I didn't like the Sonata.

You have a couple choices. First, you could remove the orange duct for the CPU cooler, and begin drawing air from both the cooler and the area around it. This decreases the effectiveness of the cooler, but improves cooling of the other components.

There is a rectangular vent above the PCI slots in the case. If you can find one of those "slot-blower" fans and figure a way to fit it to this vent so that it exhausts air through it, you can can probably duct the motherboard to its intake and pull air off those chipset and Mosfet heatsinks.

For the latter, it's . . . . some work, but I think it would turn (what I consider to be) a mediocre case-design into a pretty cool computer.

The only other possibility would be to mod the case so there's another exhaust fan (a "round" one). Or you could attempt to exhaust air from the side-panel. But in order to do any of these things, you need to beef up your intake airflow. Woodbutcher is "right-on" about a case-bottom intake, but then you need to have the case lifted off the floor at least an inch (my personal solution is double-wheeled casters). With two 120mm intake ports, your noise level stays the same or drops. The case pressure increases. The ducting forces air past the motherboard components, and with some of the options above, you can keep the CPU-cooler duct -- with everything working toward much cooler temperatures.

Good luck.

no controversy, your right on.
Slot coolers I've used are noisy so I avoid them like the plague. Dell used a "squirrel cage" on their cpu heatsinks I would be inclined to try.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yeah, Woodbutcher.

I only add here that my Striker-Extreme mobo comes with a little 70mm option-fan that fits one of the copper Mosfet-sinks connected to the "heatpipe necklace" that is also common to our friend's ASUS motherboard. Come to think of it, a couple $5 70mm fans, a Lexan knife and some scrap Lexan would resolve any doubt of ASUS selling those things separately.

There are probably several things that can be done to that Sonata to give it some "wind instruments!!"

 

[L00PY]

The key is finding the right balance between noise and cooling. Silent but on the hot side is a very acceptable trade offfor some.

Like BD suggested, throw in beefier fans and adjust them. Use SpeedFan to turn them down to match the next noisiest component. The SPCR crowd is also big on 120mm YLs turned down -- next to inaudible at 25% but a good amount of airflow at 100% when things get toasty.