Why Linux?

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drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Originally posted by: ivwshane
The other proof is go to as many computers as possible and try using them under Knoppix versus installing Windows with no support cdroms or anything like that.

That proves nothing, I can do the same thing in windows.

That and I thought that Xboxes, Playstation 2's, various handhelds and Apple PowerPC computers were consumer hardware.

What part of "consumer level pc's" does the xbox, playstation and other consoles besides the powerpc fit into?
So now you want to bring in all the hardware that runs embedded linux into the argument? Well you got me there. I guess I can throw out windows now since I can run my word processor on my coffee machine since you consider that a personal computer too:roll:

Sure they are consumer hardware. They can run Linux. Xboxes can run Linux trivially easily unless they are the very latest versions, then you need a mod chip. Because they can't run Windows they don't count? Because Apples don't run Windows they don't count? I have a little dual-cpu ARM-based handheld that runs linux. So what?

The Xbox is certainly capable enough as a home pc, unlike my little gp2x. IIt's certainly powerfull enough to run XP if MS wanted to support it.

You wanted proof, go look at the kernel config stuff in the Linux kernel and see what hardware devices are supported for yourself. All sorts of USB devices, Sata controllers, older hardware, newer hardware that would require driver installations with Windows.

If you can provide me a list of all supported hardware chipsets with Windows XP Sp2 I would be able to pick out different things unsupported and supported with each OS and give you a more precise answer.
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
1
0
Originally posted by: ivwshane
Originally posted by: Brazen
Originally posted by: ivwshane
lol

You are basing your statement on your experience and that some how qualifies you to make such a statement?

lol

Isn't personal experience exactly what makes you qualified to make such statements? Maybe you are a little confused, since all you have is hearsay.

No it doesn't make you qualified to make such statements.

I have 10 systems and windows recognizes all the hardware out of the box and linux doesn't. If I told you that because of my experience then that means windows supports more hardware out of the box than linux, do you think that would be an accurate statement and must be true?

I don't think so.

great, so 10 systems makes YOU an expert?

Guess you've never seen some of my posts. I help to manage a test lab for one of the larger outsource QA companies. I work with 600+ systems, about 30 different H/W combos (major, we arn't talking about a different video card).

Linux has always been easier to get running, due to hardware support. I've never had to dig for drivers. I have had to dig out floppies for Windows several times. I hate the F6 key, it should burn in hell.


But, I'm still not as qualified as you...my experience is purely worthless.
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
0
0
Originally posted by: nweaver

great, so 10 systems makes YOU an expert?

Guess you've never seen some of my posts. I help to manage a test lab for one of the larger outsource QA companies. I work with 600+ systems, about 30 different H/W combos (major, we arn't talking about a different video card).

Linux has always been easier to get running, due to hardware support. I've never had to dig for drivers. I have had to dig out floppies for Windows several times. I hate the F6 key, it should burn in hell.


But, I'm still not as qualified as you...my experience is purely worthless.
I am going to take a slight exception to this. I have to pull out the F6 trick on occasion too, but usually because the hardware is pre-release or newer than the Windows release and it is the first time it has arrived. My job was to fix that with PnP add-ins, and in some cases, fixing the broken vendor inf (or working with them to fix the driver.)

All that this really says is that the distro of Linux you are using is newer than the XP release.

The only place I have seen issues with Linux support is specialty hardware, such as video capture/conversion boards. AND those are also NOT supported with XP-64. Or worse (I am assuming based on the FCP bigots), it won't work on any of what we have talked about and will only work in a Mac.
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
1
0
It is newer, and supports more Hardware out of box then XP...including OLDER and NEWER hardware. There are MANY SCSI Raid controllers that are older then XP that still require F6 + floppy to install.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "M$ is teh eVi!". Windows is a tool for me to use to get my job done. I happen to find Linux to be a better tool for most of my needs. I just hate FUD like "linux has crappy H/W support" comments to go around. It's flat out untrue. It's like those who say XP is unstable. I have very stable installs of XP, I won't let people say that XP can't be stable, or that you need to reinstall it every 6 months to keep it snappy. I don't like FUD statements. I do like Linux, I'm very partial to it over Windows XP for most stuff.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,292
16,623
136
Originally posted by: nweaver
Originally posted by: ivwshane
Originally posted by: Brazen
Originally posted by: ivwshane
lol

You are basing your statement on your experience and that some how qualifies you to make such a statement?

lol

Isn't personal experience exactly what makes you qualified to make such statements? Maybe you are a little confused, since all you have is hearsay.

No it doesn't make you qualified to make such statements.

I have 10 systems and windows recognizes all the hardware out of the box and linux doesn't. If I told you that because of my experience then that means windows supports more hardware out of the box than linux, do you think that would be an accurate statement and must be true?

I don't think so. I guess you missed this part

great, so 10 systems makes YOU an expert?

Guess you've never seen some of my posts. I help to manage a test lab for one of the larger outsource QA companies. I work with 600+ systems, about 30 different H/W combos (major, we arn't talking about a different video card).

Linux has always been easier to get running, due to hardware support. I've never had to dig for drivers. I have had to dig out floppies for Windows several times. I hate the F6 key, it should burn in hell.


But, I'm still not as qualified as you...my experience is purely worthless.


Wow, you completely missed my point.

My point was that ones limited personal experience (including mine) doesn't make them an expert and they can't say with 100% certainty that linux supports more consumer desktop pc's than linux.


Guess you've never seen some of my posts. I help to manage a test lab for one of the larger outsource QA companies. I work with 600+ systems, about 30 different H/W combos (major, we arn't talking about a different video card).

That's allot but it still doesn't represent no where near the amount of consumer level hardware that's out there for the pc.

Sure they are consumer hardware. They can run Linux. Xboxes can run Linux trivially easily unless they are the very latest versions, then you need a mod chip. Because they can't run Windows they don't count?

So xbox runs linux? I can just pop in a linux distro and off it goes, a full blown desktop? I think not. And while it is a consumer level piece of hardware it certainly wouldn't be considered a desktop pc.

Because Apples don't run Windows they don't count?

I'm pretty sure in my previous post I specifically left out apple as not being a consumer pc (meaning that I consider apple's to be real pc's).

I have a little dual-cpu ARM-based handheld that runs linux.

That's called a pda, again we are talking about personal computers in the tradditional sense, laptop, desktop.


Well if you want to bring up items unrelated to the topic of making linux a successful desktop OS just to make your point then go ahead.

I can do that too.
Heres one: All OEM's sell their consumer pc's with windows on it, therefore windows is the best OS. (/sarcasm)

 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
8,708
0
0
Well if you want to bring up items unrelated to the topic of making linux a successful desktop OS just to make your point then go ahead.

Because they seem unrelated doesn't make it so. People have all sorts of crazy hardware sometimes. Weird SCSI stuff is not uncommon; used to be the only way you could burn a cdrom. Stuff they picked up from work. Lots of people have old Macs and Ibooks and such that are fairly worthless for newer versions of OS X, but will run Linux fine.

Like my ancient Compaq Proliant server. Linux still runs on it, it's still usable in a sort of limited fasion. I realy realy doubt that I'd ever get XP to work on it, or even W2k. I've known people to take home old rs/6000 machines. I've installed Linux on ancient 486 laptops and used them as text terminals for my desktop. It worked very nice and I could launch GUI applications from that terminal to my desktop with simple commands. Like Quake3 and I could control the cdrom and play music from there while in-game.

I've also used older PCs a X terminals for larger PCs and got very good performance for software that otherwise would of never ran on those things.

If your argueing what OS has better hardware support out of the box, then Linux does. For the simple fact that it supports much more hardware out of the box. I know that you probably don't beleive me, but if you can find me a resource were XP has listed out-of-the-box support for various hardware chipsets then I can bring up a comparision for you if you realy realy want one.

Of course XP is going to have very good support out of the box for fairly modern hardware that is typically found in consumer PCs. Microsoft isn't stupid and would go through great lengths to make sure of this.

I can do that too.
Heres one: All OEM's sell their consumer pc's with windows on it, therefore windows is the best OS. (/sarcasm)

Actually for most people this is going to be true. Windows XP doesn't require any extra drivers or user intervention to get working. It's going to be pre-installed, pre-configured and running a tested and supported configuration. If somebody needs help they can call a phone tech place. The phone tech people will be familar with the software and the configuration and be aware of most of the bugs and problems that a typical user is going to run into with windows on that hardware.

It does not require any install to happen. No dealing with partitions. No dealing with install cdroms or driver downloads. And more then likely it will even have Office and such pre-installed if they need it for whatever reason.

If they go down to the Wallmart they can buy software and have about a 90%-95% chance that it will work fairly well on XP for at least the time being. They also probably use Windows at work and probably are familar with it enough off of the bat that they can get their job done.

This doesn't mean that I won't recommend Linux over Windows if they ask my opinion, but it does mean that I am not going to recommend it to them unless I am willing to help them out when they run into problems or at least make them aware of the problems they could run into. With Windows you can get help from lots of different places and even though it's usually expensive it is usually effective. But with Linux they are SOL unless they know somebody that is familar with it.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
0
0
Originally posted by: nweaver
It is newer, and supports more Hardware out of box then XP...including OLDER and NEWER hardware. There are MANY SCSI Raid controllers that are older then XP that still require F6 + floppy to install.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "M$ is teh eVi!". Windows is a tool for me to use to get my job done. I happen to find Linux to be a better tool for most of my needs. I just hate FUD like "linux has crappy H/W support" comments to go around. It's flat out untrue. It's like those who say XP is unstable. I have very stable installs of XP, I won't let people say that XP can't be stable, or that you need to reinstall it every 6 months to keep it snappy. I don't like FUD statements. I do like Linux, I'm very partial to it over Windows XP for most stuff.

The thing is most people don't care if there hardware is supported out of the box. The only real question is who supports the hardware and software most people have.
 

nweaver

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2001
6,813
1
0
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: nweaver
It is newer, and supports more Hardware out of box then XP...including OLDER and NEWER hardware. There are MANY SCSI Raid controllers that are older then XP that still require F6 + floppy to install.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "M$ is teh eVi!". Windows is a tool for me to use to get my job done. I happen to find Linux to be a better tool for most of my needs. I just hate FUD like "linux has crappy H/W support" comments to go around. It's flat out untrue. It's like those who say XP is unstable. I have very stable installs of XP, I won't let people say that XP can't be stable, or that you need to reinstall it every 6 months to keep it snappy. I don't like FUD statements. I do like Linux, I'm very partial to it over Windows XP for most stuff.

The thing is most people don't care if there hardware is supported out of the box. The only real question is who supports the hardware and software most people have.

nobody cares, until my brother, a complete computer idiot, tries to reinstalll windows on his HP, finds he doesn't have an XP disk (restore "partition" that hosed), buys a disk reinstalls only to find he can't access the web (no modem, no lan driver) and that his screen looks funny (no sound). He does care then.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Originally posted by: nweaver
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: nweaver
It is newer, and supports more Hardware out of box then XP...including OLDER and NEWER hardware. There are MANY SCSI Raid controllers that are older then XP that still require F6 + floppy to install.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "M$ is teh eVi!". Windows is a tool for me to use to get my job done. I happen to find Linux to be a better tool for most of my needs. I just hate FUD like "linux has crappy H/W support" comments to go around. It's flat out untrue. It's like those who say XP is unstable. I have very stable installs of XP, I won't let people say that XP can't be stable, or that you need to reinstall it every 6 months to keep it snappy. I don't like FUD statements. I do like Linux, I'm very partial to it over Windows XP for most stuff.

The thing is most people don't care if there hardware is supported out of the box. The only real question is who supports the hardware and software most people have.

nobody cares, until my brother, a complete computer idiot, tries to reinstalll windows on his HP, finds he doesn't have an XP disk (restore "partition" that hosed), buys a disk reinstalls only to find he can't access the web (no modem, no lan driver) and that his screen looks funny (no sound). He does care then.

Yeah, as much as I like my IBM T42 I totally disagree with the fact that they put a restore partition on the system rather than give you an OEM Windows CD or restore CD. If your hard drive takes a dump you're screwed. Even if you've got another drive you need the OEM version of Windows - which you paid for - but in most cases you don't have it. I called and asked for it and they said it would be $40. Pffft! I told them GTFOOH. That's why I've got my retail version of XP installed on my desktop and my T42 (and yes, Microsoft knows this).

BTW, if you really want to cheese off IBM tech support blow away your drive (including the restore partition) and load a retail copy of XP on it. Then call them with a hardware problem and when they tell you to press the 'IBM Access" button or run an IBM tool tell them it's a clean XP install and none of those are installed. When they ask you to install them - refuse. They don't like it when they don't have their "IBM Access" button and pre-installed IBM tools.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,292
16,623
136
Tell me about it!! I just got done fixing a dell with the exact same problem! The system was shot and using windows XP repair option to reinstall and keep the data would have been nice. No, dell didn't give the client a real cd so I was forced to manually replace corrupted files from other places on the drive. I got it working but then none of their software worked and wouldn't you know it there is no way to reinstall them because it's all part of that damn system restore partition:|
 

Topplayer

Senior member
Jan 11, 2006
444
0
0
Originally posted by: Chosonman
Linux is the future.
Linux is free and will be forever.
Linux is supported by the open source community.
Linux is secure.
Linux is not Microsoft.

Linux is the future.
In the server market continues to outpace Microsoft in server deployments. The desktop arena continues to see spectacular growth, especially with the exploding popularity of Ubuntu Linux in just the past year and a half. Linux will be used as the main operating system in just about every devices including PDA's, Cell phones, pocket PC's, notebooks and desktops, and media centers.

Linux is free and will be forever.
Unlike Windows, Linux is free and under the General Public License (GPL) should remain free forever no matter how many times you install it. Windows charges for every computer and every processor their operating system is installed on. So if you replace your CPU under their licencing agreement you will have to pay for a new copy of Windows every time.

Linux is supported by the open source community.
Linux is supported by thousands and thousands of individuals who are committed to and skilled in their work. As an open source project code is updated constantly and fixes are developed quickly. No more waiting months for security patches and updates.

Linux is secure.
As of right now there are more virus written for Windows than any other operating system. And with help of the open source community, patches and fixes for future virus for Linux can be resolved as soon as they are written. Not weeks or months.

Linux is not Microsoft.
Linux is not Microsoft. You don't need to listen to the Microsoft start up theme music, watch the Microsoft logo as Windows loads, or use the Internet Explorer to view your files, or have microft software bundled with your OS. Or believe that everything Microsoft has handed you in the PC world is the way it should be. You can used tabbed folder view instead of pressing "back back back" to navigate through your folders. You can customize your splash screen to replace you Windows loading logo. You can make your OS look like a Mac if you like.

And now Linux is supported....
Adobe has created a Linux division, most hardward OEM's bundle Linux drivers with their products and as of now Ubuntu supports the vast majority of hardware pluggins right out of the box. Believe it or not Linux is here to stay.

Please contribute as you wish to this thread..

YOU TELL EM......KILL BILLL
 
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