WiFi Interference?

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

To preface this, I live in a single family home with plenty of distance from other houses, and my old Linksys WRT54GS works just fine to cover most of the house with very little interference issues. My desktop is wired up so I don't really have much bandwidth issues. I've never really struggled with connectivity is my point.

On the other hand, my gf is in San Francisco where small apartments exist and there's plenty of units right around.

So I'm at her place, and I figured that a top-of-the-line Asus RT-AC66U would be fine, but its not. The apartment features a very long hallway ~50-60 ft, and we put the router probably 25-30 feet into the hallway. While the roommates nearby are fine, my gf is at the very front of the apartment, so we're about 30 feet away. The signal is fine in the hallway, but the minute I turn into her room, its crap. I can surf the web fine, but any bandwidth intensive stuff like Netflix or sustained downloads can get bad from time to time (I remember watching House of Cards, and every episode there would be at least 1 or 2 buffering events).

Did I just buy the wrong router or is this just the nature of 2.4ghz interference? The problem is while 5 ghz might be a solution, we're all the way at the end of the hallway where 5ghz is just as bad too. The WiFi hasn't been that bad of an issue until recently because she cancelled cable subscription this fall, meaning to watch any media, we HAVE to use the internet. I we have is a Chromecast (2.4ghz only) which can't hold a connection worth a damn with this crappy wifi. My Nexus 10 struggles to hold a connection in her room to watch any sports, and its just getting frustrating.

We tried moving the router around and when its in front of her room, its great, and when I sit next to it and test Comcast blast (which is now 105mbps!), I get great speeds, but then when we move it back, the speeds suck in her room again.

So what's the proper solution here? Do I go out and buy another expensive router? I just feel like spending $180 on an Asus RT-AC66U was double what I've ever spent on a router (My Linksys has lasted me 10 years now!), and to buy yet another expensive router would be quite ridiculous. I'm sure 2 high end routers positioned strategically around the apartment would work great, and probably even allow me to get a good 5ghz connection in her room, but that's just a lot for such a small apartment. I almost feel like I deserve 2 routers in my home to cover the much larger area!

Is what I'm seeing normal, or is this just the nature of WiFi and neighbors?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

The reason why this has finally come up now was because we had to upgrade to a DOCSIS 3.0 modem today at Comcast (as part of Blast doubling to 105mbps), and they gave us one with WiFi routing capabilities. I figured I'd pair the modems up and move the Asus router close to my gf's room. While that allowed us to Chromecast anything for a day, her roommates at the other end complained (likely because the Comcast WiFi router blows).

We settled it by moving the Asus router back in the middle where my gf and I get crappy reception, the living room gets crappy reception, but some others get great reception.

Now that I know a 2 router setup is possible, I'm wondering if that indeed has to be the solution (but with 2 high end routers)

 

[smitbret]

The reason why this has finally come up now was because we had to upgrade to a DOCSIS 3.0 modem today at Comcast (as part of Blast doubling to 105mbps), and they gave us one with WiFi routing capabilities. I figured I'd pair the modems up and move the Asus router close to my gf's room. While that allowed us to Chromecast anything for a day, her roommates at the other end complained (likely because the Comcast WiFi router blows).

We settled it by moving the Asus router back in the middle where my gf and I get crappy reception, the living room gets crappy reception, but some others get great reception.

Now that I know a 2 router setup is possible, I'm wondering if that indeed has to be the solution (but with 2 high end routers)

It's not an interference issue, it's simply the nature of WiFi vs. distance & obstructions. The fact that you admit you can move the router for relief just confirms it. 5GHz isn't the answer here since it penetrates about half as well as 2.4GHz. You're already aware of the answer, an additional Access Point (AP).

I suggest something like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833704039

Buying much more than that will just be throwing money away. Generally, you're just paying for features and all you want is something that will just broadcast a wireless signal. You can find cheaper ones but I would stay with a recognized name that is at least n300 since you said you plan on streaming media.

Then follow this link for setup (courtesy of JackMDS) http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html

If you have issues with running a cat5e cable between the router and AP then you may want to consider some powerline or MoCa adapters if possible.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I'm just confused how a 30 foot hallway with a room can totally nerf a 2.4 ghz signal though if you're saying its not interference.

I'm getting far more stable connections in my room at my house where the WiFi needs to pass through 3-4 walls from the office.

Maybe these old San Francisco apartments have some metal in the walls too?

 

[Cerb]

I'm just confused how a 30 foot hallway with a room can totally nerf a 2.4 ghz signal though if you're saying its not interference.

Interference is other signals. Obstructions that are simply hard to penetrate are not considered interference. For example, being behind a concrete wall will basically nullify a wifi signal, 90% of the time, but is not radio interference. An early 2.4GHz phone, or magnetically leaky transformer nearby, OTOH, harming the signal, would be.

Maybe these old San Francisco apartments have some metal in the walls too?

Doubt it, but if at all grounded, A/C ductwork could do it, amongst any number of other things.

I put in a router years ago, where there was less than 1ft between full bars and 40MBps real transfers, and no signal at all. Something in the wall killed it as soon as direct line of sight was lost, and clearly it wasn't reflecting well, either. Total mess, that was (it was intended to go 3-4 feet past where it lost signal)!

 

[azazel1024]

I'm just confused how a 30 foot hallway with a room can totally nerf a 2.4 ghz signal though if you're saying its not interference.

I'm getting far more stable connections in my room at my house where the WiFi needs to pass through 3-4 walls from the office.

Maybe these old San Francisco apartments have some metal in the walls too?

Wireless attenuates with the inverse square of the range. That is first of all, 30ft means that you have a signal 20dB lower at 30ft than at 3ft. That is 1/100th the signal strength. That in and of itself is actually not a huge drop in signal strength (that is it pretty sizeable). A typical 2x4 and stud wall attenuates a 2.4GHz signal by around 4dB...which is also not a huge attenuation. HOWEVER, you mention old SF apartment. Likely those are plaster and lathe walls, which if it is lathe and not chicken wire, attenuate more in the 10dB range. Also free space in the room itself might be adding 5-20ft of distance (no idea on the room size).

All told, that can be on the low end, 25dB up to around 40dB of signal attenuation. The lower end is just fine, the upper end leaves you with a moderately weak signal.

The other clue in what you said, the router is in a hallway. I assume her room is not directly at the end of it, but actually technically OFF the hallway. Even if at the end, unless the TV/computer being connected is line of sight out of the door, the wireless signal is actually punching through the hallway wall at a very oblique angle, which means it is traveling through a LOT of material since it is 30ft away. That can easily attenuate a signal 10, 20, 30dB more than if it was punching at a perpendicular straight through the wall.

As an example of all of this, my basement router is located about 35ft from my kitchen table, through a single floor and maybe/sort of through one wall regular 2x4 and sheetrock wall. My signal strength is around -72dBm sitting at the table because it is running through the floor at a very oblique angle. By comparison outside with my outdoor AP, at a distance of 130ft (4x further, or what should be 12dB lower signal strength), my signal strength from my outdoor AP is -62dBm...or actually 10x stronger signal strength, even though by rights if it wasn't for "just" one floor, it should be 10dB lower signal strength.

What you need is a router/access point at either end of the apartment. That is the only real solution.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Thanks for your help guys, this is informative.

I do understand the difference between interference and attenuation, but how would I be able to spot that difference? Would both result in a SNR drop (and therefore fewer bars on my device?). IIRC a microwave back in my family's house would cause interference and WiFi signal would drop out completely when the microwave is in use, but I'm more worried about other WiFi signals causing interference? Like overlapping channels?

I'm pretty sure that this is a case of attenuation because out in the hallway, the internet works fine, but the minute I walk into my gf's room its bad. As azazel1024 said, the room isn't at the end of the hallway, but rather off the hallway, so its at the end, but on the side, so you turn in. Therefore the wifi signal must penetrate the wall at an angle.

What would a case of true interference look like? And what would that feel like if people picked the wrong WiFi Channels?

 

[WildW]

You can check for interference from other wifi networks with an app like Wifi Analyser - it will show you other networks and what channels they are using, so you can try to pick a relatively quiet slot. May or may not help in your situation.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Here's what I see on our side

"woosh" on channel 6 is is the AC66U. I suppose its db vs mbps performance isn't very good which is why the Chromecast will fail miserably and my Nexus 10 barely gets enough speed. Certain devices with better antennas like my 2x2 adapter on my Thinkpad work pretty well in this room, but its frustrating. Anyhow, "woosh" on channel 11 is the N66U we just bought. Signal probably could be better, but like you guys suggested, the wall is likely a huge issue, so even though the router sits right outside of the room, just turning the corner makes a big difference.

I did try the TP Link at first, but honestly I couldn't get the DHCP to disable and register as 192.168.1.2. I gave up in frustration. The N66U is an expensive router but it supposedly has the best 2.4ghz range per Smallnetbuilder.

 

[Automaticman]

I keep hearing great things about these Ubiquity Unifi enterprise access points:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0010-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0063-_-Product

More expensive than that TP link bridge, but half the price of a second router. Plus, if you really need more than one, these are actually designed to seamless handoff from one AP to another.

If you get these to work well, you might even be able to get a less expensive main router since you won't need it for wifi duties anymore.

*note that I don't have any personal experience with the Ubiquity gear, but I'm planning on trying on eof the LR units in my condo.

 

[smitbret]

I keep hearing great things about these Ubiquity Unifi enterprise access points:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0010-_-Product

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0063-_-Product

More expensive than that TP link bridge, but half the price of a second router. Plus, if you really need more than one, these are actually designed to seamless handoff from one AP to another.

If you get these to work well, you might even be able to get a less expensive main router since you won't need it for wifi duties anymore.

*note that I don't have any personal experience with the Ubiquity gear, but I'm planning on trying on eof the LR units in my condo.

I have heard nothing but good things about Ubiquitous as well, but they are not something you just piece together. The APs are meant to be used in conjunction with the centralized server that you set up on a separate PC. You would need an entire Ubiquiti system, not just the APs.

 

[Automaticman]

I have heard nothing but good things about Ubiquitous as well, but they are not something you just piece together. The APs are meant to be used in conjunction with the centralized server that you set up on a separate PC. You would need an entire Ubiquiti system, not just the APs.

What I read about the APs in particular was that you have to install the Java based application on one PC on the network to set them up (the software is included), but after that the software doesn't need to be run and the APs are fine on their own.

I know there are several threads about the Unifi stuff here, I'll have to go back and look at them again.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Pretty surprised how bad the Asus RT-AC66U is considering it was one of the best AC routers at the time of its review.

Maybe good for AC doesn't mean good for 2.4 ghz

 

[azazel1024]

ac routers are generally better on 2.4GHz than older 11n routers. You are still asking a lot in this use case. I hear SF and I think plaster and lathe walls, which attenuate like heck.

What wasn't working with the TP-Link router? In generally x.x.x.2 is not a good IP address to set, as that is generally within the DHCP reservation range of the main router. Set it to something like x.x.x.200 for the router you are setting in access point mode (with DHCP disabled and connected LAN to LAN).

 

[inachu]

I have 35 wifi points where I live. All the troubles went away when I bought the latest apple AC wifi router.


Much faster too!

 

[smitbret]

I have 35 wifi points where I live. All the troubles went away when I bought the latest apple AC wifi router.


Much faster too!

Probably more a function of going 5GHz than AC. Wouldn't help in an attenuation situation since 5GHz waves don't penetrate obstructions well at all.