Wikileaks traitor withering away

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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
But of course, he isn't a suicide risk and multiple physicians have stated that, so it can't be that, now can it?

Again, I have posted the relevent portion of the UCMJ several times. Did you even read it?



No "national security" exceptions, no "he guilty in my mind" exceptions.

The law says he can only be held to make sure he attends his trial. Period. full stop. Nothing else. No punishment, nothing.

So lets look at what they are doing to him:

Locking him up - reasonable, don't want him running away

Solitary - maybe reasonable, is there a real threat to his life from other inmates/detainees

Checking on him and making him answer every 5 min - Not a suicide risk, so as long as he is locked in a cell, no reason for this

No pillow or sheets - total BS. Nothing to do with safety

No exercising in his cell - Who cares what he does? Again, total BS for his safety

only one hour of exercise in an empty room - Again, total BS. Nothing to do with his safety.

So again, to all the trolls and ignorant people posting (xjohnx, eaglekeeper, narmer, chicky2) please state why you think that not having a pillow is necessary to ensure he shows at his trial. Show how only one hour of exercise is necessary to ensure he shows at trial.

Because, again according to military law posted above, if it isn't the minimum needed to get his to trial, it is illegal. You can't even argue taht point, it's written there in the UCMJ.

You trolls still in 11+ pages can not quote one thing that justifies. Isn't anyone got enough brains to try? Or is trolling the extent of your mental capacity?
C'mon, you cannot possibly believe that every relevant regulation for detaining military prisoners is in that single one page section. Regulations and requirements of lights in military prisons are longer than that, nor are they all found in one location.

Checking every five minutes and no linen or pillows certainly sounds like suicide watch. Jim McDougal of White Water fame was being kept in the same conditions when he died, and I suspect this is harassment - although there may be some conditions with which I am not familiar. In any case, if this is such an open and shut case of abuse then his lawyer should already have him in the general population. I suspect that his lawyer is saying what he is saying not because it is accurate, but to make people feel sorry for him.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
C'mon, you cannot possibly believe that every relevant regulation for detaining military prisoners is in that single one page section. Regulations and requirements of lights in military prisons are longer than that, nor are they all found in one location.

Checking every five minutes and no linen or pillows certainly sounds like suicide watch. Jim McDougal of White Water fame was being kept in the same conditions when he died, and I suspect this is harassment - although there may be some conditions with which I am not familiar. In any case, if this is such an open and shut case of abuse then his lawyer should already have him in the general population. I suspect that his lawyer is saying what he is saying not because it is accurate, but to make people feel sorry for him.

Gee, you too? Does everyone throw out logic and the law to rationalize his treatment? And have you read anything I posted in this thread?

If you had bothered to read, he is NOT suicidal, nor on suicide watch. Several doctors have examined him and stated he is not suicidal. In fact, when the brig commander put him ON suicide watch, he ended up getting relieved of command for exceeding his authority, and Manning was taken off it right away. Read before posting ,it saves time.

So given the UCMJ that clearly states no punishment for detainees, and the fact that he is not on suicide watch, what possible reason could they have to do all of this.

What possible reason to take away his pillow?
To wake him up if they can't see his head?
Check on him every 15min?
Don't let him exercise?

How does that ensure his safety? Sure sounds like punishment to me. In fact, he is the only detainee that is max isolation, all other detainees are in medium containment. Sure sounds like he is being singled out, and remember he hasn't been convicted of anything and is still innocent. The same docotrs that said he isn't suicidal also have recommended he be moved to medium containment. But that has been ignored. I wonder why?

No one has come up with a reason why he is being treated like this, and no one has come up with a reason to explain whyu the examples I mentioned cansomehow be linked to his safety. I wonder why?

But others like narmer, who can't post a single fact, can throw out homophobic insults, thus proving how ignorant of the matter he really is, and how childish he is.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
He seems to keep ignoring you on this...

You seem to be ignoring me, unless you call insulting me with homophobic comments "contrusctive"

You still can answer how his treatment, like no exercise, no pillow, wake him up at night if they can't see him, are for his safety?

But troll away.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
Garfield, where's you're proof that Manning is not being held in accordance with the UCMJ. Why hasn't his lawyer petitioned for him to be moved to another cell or facility? Could it be that the lawyer knows that Manning is in fact being held in accordance with the UCMJ?

If ytou could bother to read actual facts about this, you would know. He did file one official complaint, but wasn't filing others because he didn't want to make it worse for manning.

OF course, if you want the facts, just read this:

PFC Manning is being treated differently. He is the only detainee being held in Maximum (MAX) custody and under Prevention of Injury (POI) watch. Every other detainee is being held in Medium Detention In (MDI) and without POI watch restrictions. What is the difference?

Hmm, the only one. Gee, sounds like he is being treated the same, not! Unless you want to argue that him being unique is somehow the same as everyone else. That would be a novel argument.

Every other detainee is not subjected to constant monitoring or asked if they are okay every five minutes. Every other detainee is allowed to have sheets and a pillow. Every other detainee may have personal items in their cell. Every other detainee may have paper and pens in their cell in order to write to family and friends. Every other detainee may have any combination of 15 books or magazines in their cell at all times. Any other detainee can exercise in their cell during the day. No other detainee has to strip to their underwear at the end of the day and surrender their clothing to the guards.


Hmm, everyone else that isn't convicted doesn't have to do what Manning does. Gee, I guess that is just another perfect example of being treated the "same", huh?

PFC Manning arrived at the Quantico brig on July 29, 2010. He was placed in MAX and under suicide watch. On August 6, 2010, the forensic psychiatrist for the brig recommended that PFC Manning be moved from suicide watch to POI. Over the course of the following weeks, the brig forensic psychiatrist met with PFC Manning on a frequent basis. Due to PFC Manning’s good behavior and demeanor, on August 27, 2010, the brig psychiatrist recommended that PFC Manning be taken off of POI watch and that his confinement classification be changed from MAX to MDI.

Over the course of the following three months, the brig forensic psychiatrist consistently recommended PFC Manning be taken off of POI watch. The only exception to this was on December 10, 2010 when he recommended that PFC Manning remain under POI watch for one week. This was due to a rumor that had spread on Twitter suggesting that PFC Manning had committed suicide. Due to the rumor, the brig forensic psychiatrist believed it was prudent to place PFC Manning on POI watch. The following week, that same forensic psychiatrist once again recommended that PFC Manning be removed from POI watch. Despite these consistent recommendations, PFC Manning has remained on POI watch and in MAX custody.

The brig forensic psychiatrist’s recommendation comes as no surprise given the fact PFC Manning has been a model inmate. At no time has he been disrespectful, violent or noncompliant. PFC Manning does not exhibit any of the criteria normally established for MAX custody under the Navy Instruction. Given the consistent recommendation of the brig forensic psychiatrist and PFC Manning’s model behavior, it is unclear why he is still held in MAX custody and under POI watch.


Hmmmm, model prisoner. Sounds like a trouble maker to me. The psychiatrist recommended transfer to medium confinement. over 5 months ago. It's been ignored. Look, it's another one of your proofs that he is being treated just like everyone else! Score! LOL, not.

Oh, and since you obviously don't care about facts:
In order to assess the reasonableness of the brig commander’s determination, the defense requested that the brig explain the basis for its determination and why this information was apparently not deemed significant by the brig’s forensic psychiatrist – the primary individual responsible for assessing a detainee’s risk for self harm or harm to others. It is the defense’s position that the classification of PFC Manning in MAX and under an assignment of POI is based upon an inappropriate reason and is therefore an abuse of discretion. The defense is hoping that the new commander will conduct a complete review of the confinement classification and assignment of PFC Manning. It is our hope that she will order his removal from POI watch and reduce his classification level from MAX to MDI.

So yeah, I guess his lawyer does believe it, oh, and by the way, the brig shrink does to. Fancy that.

Any other lies and strawman you would like to bring up?

How about the "military can do what it wants"?
Or the "but the doctor could be lying"?
Or "Hey, aliens could try to help him escape, so we really need to be careful", lol.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
If ytou could bother to read actual facts about this, you would know. He did file one official complaint, but wasn't filing others because he didn't want to make it worse for manning.

OF course, if you want the facts, just read this:



Hmm, the only one. Gee, sounds like he is being treated the same, not! Unless you want to argue that him being unique is somehow the same as everyone else. That would be a novel argument.




Hmm, everyone else that isn't convicted doesn't have to do what Manning does. Gee, I guess that is just another perfect example of being treated the "same", huh?




Hmmmm, model prisoner. Sounds like a trouble maker to me. The psychiatrist recommended transfer to medium confinement. over 5 months ago. It's been ignored. Look, it's another one of your proofs that he is being treated just like everyone else! Score! LOL, not.

Oh, and since you obviously don't care about facts:


So yeah, I guess his lawyer does believe it, oh, and by the way, the brig shrink does to. Fancy that.

Any other lies and strawman you would like to bring up?

How about the "military can do what it wants"?
Or the "but the doctor could be lying"?
Or "Hey, aliens could try to help him escape, so we really need to be careful", lol.

The lawyer must not have been able to substantiate the claim that Manning is not being treated in accordance with the UCMJ. Why hasn't the Manning or his lawyer gotten his Senators and Congressman involved? Sounds like a bunch of bloggers saying any and everything to make the populous believe that Manning is not being treated according to the UCMJ.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Gee, you too? Does everyone throw out logic and the law to rationalize his treatment? And have you read anything I posted in this thread?

If you had bothered to read, he is NOT suicidal, nor on suicide watch. Several doctors have examined him and stated he is not suicidal. In fact, when the brig commander put him ON suicide watch, he ended up getting relieved of command for exceeding his authority, and Manning was taken off it right away. Read before posting ,it saves time.

So given the UCMJ that clearly states no punishment for detainees, and the fact that he is not on suicide watch, what possible reason could they have to do all of this.

What possible reason to take away his pillow?
To wake him up if they can't see his head?
Check on him every 15min?
Don't let him exercise?

How does that ensure his safety? Sure sounds like punishment to me. In fact, he is the only detainee that is max isolation, all other detainees are in medium containment. Sure sounds like he is being singled out, and remember he hasn't been convicted of anything and is still innocent. The same docotrs that said he isn't suicidal also have recommended he be moved to medium containment. But that has been ignored. I wonder why?

No one has come up with a reason why he is being treated like this, and no one has come up with a reason to explain whyu the examples I mentioned cansomehow be linked to his safety. I wonder why?

But others like narmer, who can't post a single fact, can throw out homophobic insults, thus proving how ignorant of the matter he really is, and how childish he is.
Although he is not on suicide watch, he is on POI watch. That explains why they take away his linens and pillow, check on him every fifteen minutes, wake him if they cannot see his face, and do not let him exercise in his cell. Those are mandatory conditions for POI prisoners - what the UCMJ considers necessary to prevent him from harming himself. Considering that another commander was immediately relieved for placing Manning on suicide watch, I think it's pretty clear that this commander does in fact have the authority under the law to hold Manning in this matter. To believe otherwise would be to believe that one commander was disciplined for not following the UCMJ whereas another commander is being allowed to break it in the exact same case and same facility. There's a reason psychiatrists recommend rather than order - because it's not their decision, they are merely technical experts whose best professional judgment helps the commander make HIS decision. So you cannot argue that Manning is being held in violation of the law or of his rights, because the commander obviously has the legal authority to make this decision. You can only argue that Manning is being held under the wrong classification - in affect, that the commander, although having the legal right to hold him under this classification, has made the wrong decision to do so.

Your argument that Manning is being held in violation of the law seems to stem from the fact that he is the only prisoner in the facility being held in such a way, yet this argument is easily seen to be facetious and without merit. There is absolutely no requirement under the UCMJ or civilian law that one prisoner be held in the same conditions as other prisoners. There is only a requirement that each prisoner be held in a manner consistent with the law's requirements for his situation. Obviously a man awaiting trial for murdering two prison guards is not going to be imprisoned in the same manner as "everybody else". Neither is Manning. The requirement is only that he be held in legal accordance with his situation, and except for the highly unlikely event of having another prisoner held for identical charges and with identical evaluations, other prisoners' conditions of confinement are not one whit relevant to the condition of Manning's incarceration.

Again, you are proclaiming that he is being held illegally, but your "proof" is that you do not consider necessary the measures being taken by the commander. Yet it is undeniably the commander's decision, and the military is undeniably watching closely - as witnessed by the relief of the previous commander. Manning's lawyer can make reasoned appeals to the commander or go over his head, but clearly if this commander was operating beyond his authority he would be relieved.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
0
You seem to be ignoring me, unless you call insulting me with homophobic comments "contrusctive"

You still can answer how his treatment, like no exercise, no pillow, wake him up at night if they can't see him, are for his safety?

But troll away.
I'm not ignoring you, sweetie. I'm just amazed at how tone-deaf you are.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
The lawyer must not have been able to substantiate the claim that Manning is not being treated in accordance with the UCMJ. Why hasn't the Manning or his lawyer gotten his Senators and Congressman involved? Sounds like a bunch of bloggers saying any and everything to make the populous believe that Manning is not being treated according to the UCMJ.

Maybe because they are like you, and have already pre-determined guilt, so they don't care (just like you and others here). Also, the government is dragging it's feet to do anything, typical.

That isn't even a valid argument anyway, you do know that right? I crime (or illegal activity) is illegal regardless of whether it's caught or punished.

Have you have ever run a red light, or gone faster then the speed limit, and not gotten a ticket for it? If the answer is yes, you just blew your own non-argument out of the water. Did you break the law? Of course. Did you get caught? nope. Does that change that you broke the law? Nope.

Learn logic skills, it would help. Good to see though that you still won't answer my questions about justifying his conditions., but instead try to throw out another false strawman.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
Although he is not on suicide watch, he is on POI watch. That explains why they take away his linens and pillow, check on him every fifteen minutes, wake him if they cannot see his face, and do not let him exercise in his cell. Those are mandatory conditions for POI prisoners - what the UCMJ considers necessary to prevent him from harming himself. Considering that another commander was immediately relieved for placing Manning on suicide watch, I think it's pretty clear that this commander does in fact have the authority under the law to hold Manning in this matter. To believe otherwise would be to believe that one commander was disciplined for not following the UCMJ whereas another commander is being allowed to break it in the exact same case and same facility. There's a reason psychiatrists recommend rather than order - because it's not their decision, they are merely technical experts whose best professional judgment helps the commander make HIS decision. So you cannot argue that Manning is being held in violation of the law or of his rights, because the commander obviously has the legal authority to make this decision. You can only argue that Manning is being held under the wrong classification - in affect, that the commander, although having the legal right to hold him under this classification, has made the wrong decision to do so.

Your argument that Manning is being held in violation of the law seems to stem from the fact that he is the only prisoner in the facility being held in such a way, yet this argument is easily seen to be facetious and without merit. There is absolutely no requirement under the UCMJ or civilian law that one prisoner be held in the same conditions as other prisoners. There is only a requirement that each prisoner be held in a manner consistent with the law's requirements for his situation. Obviously a man awaiting trial for murdering two prison guards is not going to be imprisoned in the same manner as "everybody else". Neither is Manning. The requirement is only that he be held in legal accordance with his situation, and except for the highly unlikely event of having another prisoner held for identical charges and with identical evaluations, other prisoners' conditions of confinement are not one whit relevant to the condition of Manning's incarceration.

Again, you are proclaiming that he is being held illegally, but your "proof" is that you do not consider necessary the measures being taken by the commander. Yet it is undeniably the commander's decision, and the military is undeniably watching closely - as witnessed by the relief of the previous commander. Manning's lawyer can make reasoned appeals to the commander or go over his head, but clearly if this commander was operating beyond his authority he would be relieved.

I believe you are wrong, you don't even read the posts I made. And given you concepts that you don't trust the government in other areas, it's funny that all of a sudden, anything the .gov does is fine and dandy. Great double standard. You guys all think the government is evil and untrustworthy, then you turn around and say how honest and OK they are about other things, LOL.

WHY is he on POI watch? It is documented he not in danger of hurting himself. Locked in a cell, he is in no danger of anyone else harming him. There has to be a reason for the POI and MAX security. What is it? No one can still give a reason. "just because" isn't a reason. Your whole argument boils down to the " it must be OK, since they are doing it" Brilliant. Do you also believe we found Saddam's WMD when they told us they knew where they were? Did you believe them when they said prisoner abuse in Bagram didn't happen?


Do you have any legal reason why someone, not even convicted of any crime, and is not suicide risk, and is a model prisoner, and is not a threat to others, is still locked down? Oh, that's right, it's OK because it already happened. Amazing logic.

So why the harsh treatment? You still can't answer that. He is innocent until proven quilty. Every other detainee isn't treated like him. These are all facts.

You need a valid reason to put him on POI, and no one can give one. The military won't even give a reason, they just blow it off. You would think they could tell everyone why, don't you? It's not a secret or anything.

Again, the UCMJ does NOT allow punishment. Period. So how is it when ONE person gets treated uniquely from EVERYONE else, and his treatment is MANY times harsher, and he is a MODEL PRISONER, and NOT A SUCIDE RISK, can you justify this?

He is not a threat to himself
He is not a threat to others.

So why the over the top treatment that no one else is getting?

Again, you can't punish him just because you "think" he is guilty. By your standards, he should be in a low-class confinement because he leaked documents. He didn't rob, murder, rape, rob, or do anything violent. This would be like a "white collar" crime, but yet somehow you and everyone else think that he is Jack Bauer, and will kill the guards and escape if he is locked-down nin his cell all day. Talk about double-standards.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
And given you concepts that you don't trust the government in other areas, it's funny that all of a sudden, anything the .gov does is fine and dandy. Great double standard. You guys all think the government is evil and untrustworthy, then you turn around and say how honest and OK they are about other things, LOL.

It's actually pretty simple how these righties act.

If it's the government oppressing someone ELSE they have dehumanized, 'enemy', someone they are bigoted against etc. - then they CHEER the oppressive behavior.

If they think that it's the government doing anything against them or their 'group' or 'class' or 'tribe' - then they are paranoid and AGAINST it.

That's when you see the spewing, every cent taxed is theft making them slaves, every rule they have to follow is tyranny, etc. They're wrong on both sides.

But their craven selfish ignorant nonsense is the stuff the powerful thrive on at keeping the idiot masses under control.
 

OBLAMA2009

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2008
6,574
3
0
whats worse, what manning did or what bush did, killing a bunch of people and blowing tons of taxpayer money? who has done more damage to the country? youre an idiot if you wouldnt say "bush". they should take 1% of the money they are spending torturing manning and bring bush, cheney, rumsfeld etc... to justice
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Maybe because they are like you, and have already pre-determined guilt, so they don't care (just like you and others here). Also, the government is dragging it's feet to do anything, typical.

That isn't even a valid argument anyway, you do know that right? I crime (or illegal activity) is illegal regardless of whether it's caught or punished.

Have you have ever run a red light, or gone faster then the speed limit, and not gotten a ticket for it? If the answer is yes, you just blew your own non-argument out of the water. Did you break the law? Of course. Did you get caught? nope. Does that change that you broke the law? Nope.

Learn logic skills, it would help. Good to see though that you still won't answer my questions about justifying his conditions., but instead try to throw out another false strawman.

Though he may be guilty he is being held in accordance with the UCMJ, no matter how much you and others like you cry that Manning's being mistreated it's not going to change anything.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
It's actually pretty simple how these righties act.

If it's the government oppressing someone ELSE they have dehumanized, 'enemy', someone they are bigoted against etc. - then they CHEER the oppressive behavior.

If they think that it's the government doing anything against them or their 'group' or 'class' or 'tribe' - then they are paranoid and AGAINST it.

That's when you see the spewing, every cent taxed is theft making them slaves, every rule they have to follow is tyranny, etc. They're wrong on both sides.

But their craven selfish ignorant nonsense is the stuff the powerful thrive on at keeping the idiot masses under control.

It is very obvious that you've never served in the military. From day one in bootcamp the UCMJ is drilled into your brain. Manning knew the consequences of getting caught when he was downloading and distributing classified and/or confidential material. He's being confined and treated in accordance with the UCMJ which he voluntarily agreed to when he joined the military.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I believe you are wrong, you don't even read the posts I made. And given you concepts that you don't trust the government in other areas, it's funny that all of a sudden, anything the .gov does is fine and dandy. Great double standard. You guys all think the government is evil and untrustworthy, then you turn around and say how honest and OK they are about other things, LOL.

WHY is he on POI watch? It is documented he not in danger of hurting himself. Locked in a cell, he is in no danger of anyone else harming him. There has to be a reason for the POI and MAX security. What is it? No one can still give a reason. "just because" isn't a reason. Your whole argument boils down to the " it must be OK, since they are doing it" Brilliant. Do you also believe we found Saddam's WMD when they told us they knew where they were? Did you believe them when they said prisoner abuse in Bagram didn't happen?


Do you have any legal reason why someone, not even convicted of any crime, and is not suicide risk, and is a model prisoner, and is not a threat to others, is still locked down? Oh, that's right, it's OK because it already happened. Amazing logic.

So why the harsh treatment? You still can't answer that. He is innocent until proven quilty. Every other detainee isn't treated like him. These are all facts.

You need a valid reason to put him on POI, and no one can give one. The military won't even give a reason, they just blow it off. You would think they could tell everyone why, don't you? It's not a secret or anything.

Again, the UCMJ does NOT allow punishment. Period. So how is it when ONE person gets treated uniquely from EVERYONE else, and his treatment is MANY times harsher, and he is a MODEL PRISONER, and NOT A SUCIDE RISK, can you justify this?

He is not a threat to himself
He is not a threat to others.

So why the over the top treatment that no one else is getting?

Again, you can't punish him just because you "think" he is guilty. By your standards, he should be in a low-class confinement because he leaked documents. He didn't rob, murder, rape, rob, or do anything violent. This would be like a "white collar" crime, but yet somehow you and everyone else think that he is Jack Bauer, and will kill the guards and escape if he is locked-down nin his cell all day. Talk about double-standards.
Actually, from the posts you made, I learned that he is on POI watch because of professional evaluation. Go back and read them. This is hardly "it must be OK, since they are doing it" or "it's OK because it already happened" as you assert. Somehow in your adoration of Manning you managed to totally blow by the professionals' recommendation to place Manning on POI watch. Go back and read your own posted excerpts and the originals from which they are taken.

The question then becomes whether or not he should be taken off of POI watch once the professionals think he is no longer a danger to himself. I am not going to argue that he should continue to be on POI watch - I tend to think the professionals have a better grasp on that, but it's the commander's decision and responsibility. My point however was that while you are arguing that he is being held and treated illegally, clearly his detention and treatment are completely legal. I certainly would not argue that he SHOULD be on POI watch, or that the government is necessarily being honest; I'm merely pointing out that Manning's being on POI watch is not illegal. (Us righties are pretty consistent in not advocating giving government control of people not charged with crimes; we wish you lefties were half as determined to preserve the rights of every American as you are determined to preserve the rights of those charged with crimes.)

Again, the treatment of others is of no account in his case. Remember that POI watch is NOT a punishment, it is to protect the accused from injuring himself, specifically to guarantee his appearance at trial. Other factors, such as a lack of sheets or pillows, that you are classifying as punishment are actually SOP in POI watch cases, and the commander would be very foolish to keep such a high profile detainee in POI watch without observing the letter of standard procedures. Again, your obviously sincere sympathy for Manning does not convert POI watch to punishment, any more than operating to remove a diseased kidney would be punishment.

His being held in isolation, on the other hand, I completely support. Assuming that what I have read about the evidence and his admissions is substantially true, it's possible that he could yet pass more information that would result in further damaging leaks of classified information. His presumed right to have playmates and give interviews as the darling of the left is to me much less important than the state's obligation to exert all reasonable measures to prevent even more damage. Consider it equal to keeping in isolation a bookie who is in a position to divulge identities of undercover federal agents infiltrating a crime family; even though he is not accused on capital crimes, his knowledge is dangerous enough to keep him in special detention until his charges have been adjudicated or until the agents are pulled and his knowledge is no longer such a threat.

Just to be clear, my positions:
1. His detention in isolation - I completely support.
2. Legality of his detention under POI watch - I consider completely legal.
3. Correctness of the commander's decision to keep his detention under POI watch - I have no opinion either way.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Still major really, but most of our country is just regurgitating their daily news email. Once it changes, no matter how critical; they move on.

It's much like the company I work for no longer supplying cups for coffee because of the economy and then in the same meeting bragging how much profit we had.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
In a new update, Manning , for two nights straight, has been forced to strip naked and lie in his cell all night without clothes, and then in the morning is forced to stand to attention outside his cell naked as well.

Of course, he is the only soldier in the brig that is having this happen to him, once again proving he is not being treated equally.

Last night, PFC Manning was inexplicably stripped of all clothing by the Quantico Brig. He remained in his cell, naked, for the next seven hours. At 5:00 a.m., the Brig sounded the wake-up call for the detainees. At this point, PFC Manning was forced to stand naked at the front of his cell.

The Duty Brig Supervisor (DBS) arrived shortly after 5:00 a.m. When he arrived, PFC Manning was called to attention. The DBS walked through the facility to conduct his detainee count. Afterwards, PFC Manning was told to sit on his bed. About ten minutes later, a guard came to his cell to return his clothing.

This type of degrading treatment is inexcusable and without justification. It is an embarrassment to our military justice system and should not be tolerated. PFC Manning has been told that the same thing will happen to him again tonight. No other detainee at the Brig is forced to endure this type of isolation and humiliation.

The interesting thing is that if you read these quotes:

Guantanamo Standard Operating Procedures, December, 2002:

In addition to degradation of the detainee, stripping can be used to demonstrate the omnipotence of the captor or to debilitate the detainee.

In the weeks since photographs of naked detainees set off the abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib, military officials have portrayed the sexual humiliation captured in the images as the isolated acts of a rogue night shift. But forced nudity of prisoners was pervasive in the military intelligence unit of Abu Ghraib, so much so that soldiers later said they had not seen "the whole nudity thing," as one captain called it, as abusive or out of the ordinary.

His treatment is right out of the gitmo/ Abu Ghraib playbook. Doesn't sound like he is being treated the same with this going on.

Given this treatment was done explicitly to break people in gitmo and AG, I guess the military is hoping they can break Manning now. I am sure everyone is OK with an innocent US Soldier being abused like this.

Hmmm.......isn't punishment before conviction illegal?
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
Of course, he is the only soldier in the brig that is having this happen to him, once again proving he is not being treated equally.

How many of the other soldiers will be executed for treason?

I really don't understand why there is even the hint of controversy surrounding this guy.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
3,708
1
0
How many of the other soldiers will be executed for treason?

I really don't understand why there is even the hint of controversy surrounding this guy.

Gee I don't know, maybe that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing? You maybe have heard about it in your high school classes.

And your ignorance continues to show, since he isn't charged with treason, and the prosecutor is not seeking the death penalty. Yet another totally fact-free post by patrollnus.

Link to original article (sorry):
JAG lawyers website
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Now the million dollar question did Bradley Manning do something that brought this on? You would think that his lawyer would give more background on the incident.

I see now there's a March 4th entry.

According to First Lieutenant Brian Villard, a Marine spokesman, the decision was "not punitive" and done in accordance with Brig rules.
 
Last edited:

MrColin

Platinum Member
May 21, 2003
2,403
3
81
Some of the posters are moral scumbags, some are liars some both.

He's not guilty of treason.

His crime can be debated; so far, though, he's directly led to the end of at least two dictatorships in the Middle East. Who among his critics here have done that?

IMO 23 hours isolation is abusive. The result of his actions have seemingly done enormously more good than harm, if any real harm.

The people of the US and the world are better, much better, informed about the activities of their governments, for better or worse.

Democracy defeats tyranny in Tunisia, and idiots here want him to suffer.

It's always amazing, like a Stockholm syndrome, how many people LOVE their corrupt authoritarian overlords and HATE anyone who exposes the Emperor's clothes.

I've got little doubt he had no idea the leak would attack corruption in Tunisia, I'm dubious of his motives, but nonetheless, his actions have had the mentioned results.

+1 million

Lets all chip in and send all of the freedom hating freepers and teabaggers to a country where they can embrace thier desire to have no freedom and punish each other.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Gee I don't know, maybe that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing? You maybe have heard about it in your high school classes.

And your ignorance continues to show, since he isn't charged with treason, and the prosecutor is not seeking the death penalty. Yet another totally fact-free post by patrollnus.

Link to original article (sorry):
JAG lawyers website
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21043
Army Wikileaker Manning Faces Possible Death Penalty With New Charges
I don't know if the prosecutor is seeking the death penalty or not, but Manning does potentially face it.

I do not know why the Army is (evidently) trying to break Manning; perhaps there is information he is withholding, perhaps it's out of spite. But when there is a conflict between one group that is putting their lives on the line for their country, and a man who intentionally tried to massively damage his country out of pure spite because he didn't fit in*, my sympathies are with the former as long as they are scrupulously following the rules - which the dismissal of one base commander indicates they are. The fact that they are not granting him equal treatment with those accused who did NOT try to massively damage their own country bothers me not one whit.

*This is based on my understanding that he admitted downloading and passing the information. At that point, screw him.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
IMHO these leaks have done more to help the US know what's gone on behind the scenes and didn't leak out anything that has greatly harmed any of our troops.

Most news reporters have been more 'leaky' against our service men.

The problem is he aired the laundry of some very important people.
 
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