Give me a break. How many 1080p TVs were out in 2003? Most were 720p and component will do fine for that. Even with a 1080p set, component will be fine in displaying a 1080p movie outputted at 1080i. The 1080p HDTV will just convert the 1080i signal to 1080p.Originally posted by: 1and1
All display sold prior to 2004 ARE NOT HDCP Compliant !!
Even some sold in 2004 ARE NOT HDCP Compliant !!
If you bought a display 4 years ago, you think it's OLD ?
Finally, if you want to extend your knowledge please have a serious read:
http://www.edn.com/article/CA6402885.html
and there:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/hdcp-vista.ars
And what is your post contributing to the topic, honestly?Originally posted by: Lonyo
Now THAT sounds like spam.Originally posted by: 1and1
Originally posted by: jkresh
it seems kind of silly, since it goes to vga and broadcast flag wont be used for a few years you could already go to vga or component (for the ps3) to bypass hdcp, hdcp is only an issue with digital output. So while this is ok for much older displays is doesn't help if you have a display that can take DVI but is not hdcp compliant. Ie right now if I want to watch an hd-dvd through my pc (and xbox 360 drive) using my 2405fpw I have to either connect through vga or use anydvd hd or something like that, this product would be useless in that example. If it had a dvi output instead of vga it might be worth considering (though it would probably violate the dmca...)
What is looking silly in the type of comments people can do what they know nothing about.
To make it clear, this product is adding a DIGITAL HDMI / HDCP input to any RGB display.
You cannot get 1080p from component displayed on your RGB screen because in the world there is may be 5 displays that accept 1080p by component !!
They are all limited to 1080i !!!
Now about the purpose of this device it's quiet easy.
You want 1080p and you have a display technically able to output 1080p such as millions PC screens, millions projector , think about those who paid thousands USD for first HDTV / Plasma, or those who have BARCO/NEC/MARQUEE projector, etc...
They just have 3 choices and nothing else:
- Use their expensive display (not HDCP) with low resolution (they don't want this solution)
- Resell their display, loose lot of money and buy a brand new display. (they don't want this solution because the industry already sold them expensive display technically able to output 1080p, they just don't understand why the ****** they got a black screen when they connect a HDMI source to it)
- Get HDfury and use their display at 1080p and be happy.
Please don't make conclusion too fast when you don't know what you are talking about.
There is MILLIONS displays technically able to support HDMI 720 or 1080p
They just CANNOT be used without HDfury.
Special HDMI features? Like what, the audio portion (ie Dolby TrueHD)?Originally posted by: 1and1
Yes, HDTV with 1080i by component will be fine, except for special HDMI feature. I never said something else.
Ok, WTF are you talking about? If you have a 1080p HDTV (we're going to leave PC monitors out of this for now), you most likely have a TV that has been purchased AFTER 2004. So let's quit with all this 1080p talk. A NON-HDCP compliant 1080p HDTV (LCD, Plasma, DLP) is pretty dang rare. HOWEVER, if you DID have a non-HDCP compliant HDTV AND it was able to display 1080p, you could use the component cable to feed it the 1080i signal (through an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player) and it would DEinterlace the 1080i signal and convert it to 1080p. There is NO magic and NO upscaling. For film/movies 1080i=1080p. The only difference is the order the lines are displayed. And like I said, MOST 1080p displays (LCD and plasmas) are progressive. They can't display an interlaced signal.What is not clear is your "belief" about how 1080i is displayed, in your post it seems you believe TV will magically upscale it ? (TV will not upscale something in a resolution IT COULD NOT SUPPORT ...) Also upscaling stay upscaling, no competition
Forget 1080p HDTVs. There were very few before 2004. Most older non-HDCP compliant HDTV are 720p. And like I said, for 720p, component will do just fine.Anyway... about how many display are able to technically display 720p and 1080p
there is prolly something close to a hundred millions. (in 2004 HDTV prenetration in the USA only were estimated to 3 - 6.6 millions units, none of them HDCP compliant, now add all HDTV in the world, and add all others displays like PC monitor (where nearly none was HDCP compliant before 2005 and even some sold in 2005 was not !!)
Correct. But for PCs monitors, this devices isn't really useful. Free software rippers are available. So that leaves all the rest. Now let's see which ones are 1080p AND non-HDCP compliant. I'd say VERY few. Again, if your HDTV is only 720p, you have no need for this devices as you can use your component cables with no problems.Displays are not HDTV only
Displays are PC monitor, Projector, Retro/Projector, CRT, LCD, ILA, SXLD, etc..
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Special HDMI features? Like what, the audio portion (ie Dolby TrueHD)?
Ok, WTF are you talking about? If you have a 1080p HDTV (we're going to leave PC monitors out of this for now), you most likely have a TV that has been purchased AFTER 2004. So let's quit with all this 1080p talk. A NON-HDCP compliant 1080p HDTV (LCD, Plasma, DLP) is pretty dang rare. HOWEVER, if you DID have a non-HDCP compliant HDTV AND it was able to display 1080p, you could use the component cable to feed it the 1080i signal (through an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player) and it would DEinterlace the 1080i signal and convert it to 1080p. There is NO magic and NO upscaling. For film/movies 1080i=1080p. The only difference is the order the lines are displayed. And like I said, MOST 1080p displays (LCD and plasmas) are progressive. They can't display an interlaced signal.
Forget 1080p HDTVs. There were very few before 2004. Most older non-HDCP compliant HDTV are 720p. And like I said, for 720p, component will do just fine.
Correct. But for PCs monitors, this devices isn't really useful. Free software rippers are available. So that leaves all the rest. Now let's see which ones are 1080p AND non-HDCP compliant. I'd say VERY few. Again, if your HDTV is only 720p, you have no need for this devices as you can use your component cables with no problems.
So what group is this device REALLY targeted toward? People with 1080p HDTVs (excluding PC monitors) that are NOT HDCP complaint? I'd like to take a poll here to see how many people meet that criteria. Because I think that will be tough to find.
No, upscaling is not an HDMI "feature," it is a PS3 "feature." And the PS3 WILL upscale PS1/PS2 games through component, it just won't upscale DVDs. And quite honestly, if you're looking to upscale your DVDs, it may be cheaper to just buy an upscaling DVD player.Originally posted by: 1and1
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Special HDMI features? Like what, the audio portion (ie Dolby TrueHD)?
Like PS3 upscaling DVD, PS1, PS2 games to 720p/1080p only through HDMI
So bye bye component.
Ok, please, quit with the HDMI "features." Be specific on what HDMI "features" you're talking about. And no, most HDTVs capable of displaying 1080p can properly deinterlace an image were it would be indistinguishable from a 1080p source. 1080i/60=1080p/30. No difference. Again, this only applies to film/movies.Yes YOU COULD, the results is BAD quality and no access to HDMI features !
If you are happy with it, we got your point so thank you.
Personally i'm not happy with this solution, and i guess this what this post is all about.
Getting HDMI features through VGA screen, not components VS HDMI battle which is lost already for components.
1080i = 540 Pixels Horizontal resolution ! PAIR / IMPAIR displayed 25times per second to produce 1080 resolution (2 x 540)
1080p = 1080 pixels horizontal resolution
=> No competition
Again, let's be specific on what "features" you're talking about.Yes it's fine for component and 720p, you just miss HDMI feature (those that i don't want to miss). agreed.
Ok, sure, that would be a good use of it.The reason why i have purchased Vision FC4 initially, was to play PS3 @ 1080p on my DELL monitor not HDCP, it's a nice 23inch PC monitor and it's just perfect for LAN party with friends.
So if YOU decide, it's better to use software it's your choice, in my case, my only choice was to purchase HDCP stripper, and this is what i'm trying to help you to understand.
Ok, will you please quit pretending there are all these people that need this. These are the ONLY people that I see that could benefit from this. People who have a 1080p NON-HDCP compliant HDTV (again, VERY rare) that want to play PS3 games at 1080p. That is a SMALL group of people that meet that criteria. If you meet that criteria, knock yourself out.Googling "HDMI VGA" will give you an IDEA of HOW many people are still stuck today with expensive display not HDCP such as PC monitor, Projector, Retro, Plasma, CRT, LCD, ...
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Ok, the more you talk, the more you sound like you're trying to push this product.
No, upscaling is not an HDMI "feature," it is a PS3 "feature." And the PS3 WILL upscale PS1/PS2 games through component, it just won't upscale DVDs. And quite honestly, if you're looking to upscale your DVDs, it may be cheaper to just buy an upscaling DVD player.
Ok, will you please quit pretending there are all these people that need this. These are the ONLY people that I see that could benefit from this. People who have a 1080p NON-HDCP compliant HDTV (again, VERY rare) that want to play PS3 games at 1080p. That is a SMALL group of people that meet that criteria. If you meet that criteria, knock yourself out.
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I can't find info on this device. It outputs with a VGA port? Is there any device that will strip DRM from a digital signal? I want to connect my 2405FPW to my cablebox, but I have to use component since DVI is HDCP protected.
Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Those are all VGA outputs though. My cablebox outputs 1080i, so it's not like VGA has an advantage (like 1080p) over component. I want DVI for the discreet pixels.... or do you get discreet pixels with component?
You've brought nothing to the discussion except for BS. I ask point blank, WHAT HDMI "features" you're talking about, and you ignore the question.Originally posted by: 1and1
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Ok, the more you talk, the more you sound like you're trying to push this product.
LOL , i would say the more you talk, the more you sound like you are trying to under estimate HDCP stripper. useless comment, i have not started this thread, i'm just trying to explain WHY it MAY be needed !!! can you stick this in your mind and stop your conclusion, it brings nothing to the discussion. PLEASe !
A new display? As of right now, the ONLY display you've mentioned that this would be SEMI-beneficial on would be if you are hooking up a PS3 to a 24" Dell LCD. Wow, that must be a HUGE market. :roll:Yes why not, buy a new player when you already have one, buy a new display when you already have one, and don't forget to use your FANTASTIC/CRAP component in the mean time !? that's your point ?
Come on, you have other like this in stock ?
Apparently they are. The reason they most likely bought this product was to get around the ICT flag that may be implemented on certain movies in the future. If the flag WAS turned on, I can see this being a worthwhile purchase. However, as of right now, no Blu-Ray or HD-DVD movies use it and won't use it for a few years to come. At that point, the people who own non-HDCP compliant HDTVs will have a few choices: don't purchase new HD movies, buy this product (or something similar), or buy a new HDTV. I'd personally upgrade that already old HDTV with a brand new one. The difference in PQ between the old <2004 HDTV and a new ~2010 HDTV will be HUGE. But if you can't afford a new TV, this may very well be a good option. So if you want to buy it in the future ~2010 when teh flag gets turned on, great. But for now, there is VERY little use for it.QUIT prentending what ? Go on google and check how many are STUCKS !! Don't you believe if someone make this post initially it's because he got a problem ? What you are saying is that all those people who signed petition on HDboycott.com are idiots ?
Again, those TVs will most likely NOT be 1080p. And again, WHAT FREAKIN' HDMI "FEATURES" ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? And if you think component cables give you crap results, you obviously don't know jack squat.so what do you say to people who have purchased NEC/BARCO/MARQUE and all others CRT projector ? What do you say to those who have PC screens ?
You will told them buy component for that, component for that, and get no advantage of HDMI, at the end you will have wasted more money in component cable for crap results.
Why don't YOU try to improve your knowledge so you can answer my simple questions. You obviously are trying to do two things here, sells this product, or you haven't thought this through very carefully yet.Discussion with you bring no where, because you suppose yourself to be more clever than hundreds reliable and well know sources that just said the same i'm saying here to improve your knowledge...
Originally posted by: JackBurton
You've brought nothing to the discussion except for BS. I ask point blank, WHAT HDMI "features" you're talking about, and you ignore the question.
A new display? As of right now, the ONLY display you've mentioned that this would be SEMI-beneficial on would be if you are hooking up a PS3 to a 24" Dell LCD. Wow, that must be a HUGE market. :roll:?
Edit: You know I take it back. I can see where it can be useful for people that want to hook up their PS3 to any PC monitor. So there's a little bit bigger of a market. Not much bigger, but a little bit bigger.
Originally posted by: JackBurton
You obviously are trying to do two things here, sells this product, or you haven't thought this through very carefully yet.
I wrote already i have nothing to do with this,
Without me having read NOOBISH comments based on WRONG beliefs, i WOULD NOT be there trying to explain the situation. I have not started this thread !
I guess i would have made an AD on Ebay if i had something to sell !
I know about HDCP stripper, because i read all the links i posted earlier and already have one device working perfectly.
The whole story is this:
I loved PSone and PS2 and imported PS3 day 1 from Taiwan supplier
When i received the unit, i saw there was no HDMI cable supplied, i ran to shop to get one (damn expensive btw at that time, looks cheaper now)
When i get home with brand new HDMI cable, i tried to hooked up through DVI input of my Dell display (HDMI to DVI adapter) and nothing came out : BLACK SCREEN
I also had an older SONY CRT that my son is using on his computer and its max resolution is above 720p, i searched for VGA cable for PS3 and did not find any available.
Finally, It took me 5 days of googling to "understand" what's going on
I ordered Vision FC4 from Ebay (when they was still available) and it solved my problem.
I was about to buy this one who have several inputs, better specs and larger bandwith than Vision FC4: http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DS41R.ASP
price is high but it was interresting to solve many displays compliances issues at the same time.
Finally as i have only 2 displays i ordered HDfury when it was announed and if it works like they claim, i'll prolly get another for the second display as its still cheaper than 549usd for the Dtrovision
Originally posted by: 1and1
Look you freakin' douche, by your comments you've already proven YOU'RE the noob. The only reason I quit responding is because I didn't want to bump this bullsh!t thread.Originally posted by: JackBurton
You obviously are trying to do two things here, sells this product, or you haven't thought this through very carefully yet.
I wrote already i have nothing to do with this,
Without me having read NOOBISH comments based on WRONG beliefs, i WOULD NOT be there trying to explain the situation. I have not started this thread !
I guess i would have made an AD on Ebay if i had something to sell !
I know about HDCP stripper, because i read all the links i posted earlier and already have one device working perfectly.
The whole story is this:
I loved PSone and PS2 and imported PS3 day 1 from Taiwan supplier
When i received the unit, i saw there was no HDMI cable supplied, i ran to shop to get one (damn expensive btw at that time, looks cheaper now)
When i get home with brand new HDMI cable, i tried to hooked up through DVI input of my Dell display (HDMI to DVI adapter) and nothing came out : BLACK SCREEN
I also had an older SONY CRT that my son is using on his computer and its max resolution is above 720p, i searched for VGA cable for PS3 and did not find any available.
Finally, It took me 5 days of googling to "understand" what's going on
I ordered Vision FC4 from Ebay (when they was still available) and it solved my problem.
I was about to buy this one who have several inputs, better specs and larger bandwith than Vision FC4: http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DS41R.ASP
price is high but it was interresting to solve many displays compliances issues at the same time.
Finally as i have only 2 displays i ordered HDfury when it was announed and if it works like they claim, i'll prolly get another for the second display as its still cheaper than 549usd for the Dtrovision
You come in here talking about this product being necessary because HDTVs even with HDMI prior to <2004 are non-HDCP compliant and they are getting screwed with HDCP. Then you go on to talk about one of the main benefits of this device is to display 1080p which components can't do (again, you're lack of knowledge is showing). Unfortunately you didn't think things through very well as I pointed out that VERY few if ANY 1080p non-HDCP compliant sets were even available before 2004. You then go on to say the only way to upscale PS1, and PS2 games through the PS3 is through HDMI (again, you're wrong). You're ONLY argument that you're left with now is the ability to hook up a PS3 to a PC monitor which freakin' VERY few people do. And it's not so much to do with the display being non-HDCP compliant, but rather that it doesn't even have a HDMI connection at all.
And let me go through your HDMI "features" you goof. I asked you the question because I knew you didn't know what you were talking about.
1. Component offers 1080i which LIKE I FREAKIN' SAID, for film/movie 1080i/60=1080p/30=> I have answered this ! HDMI offers 720p/1080p resolution for display without components entries (for 720p) and allow 1080p for technically able display (components cannot)
HDMI offers DVD upscalling up to 1080p also at 720p that's why it's better (component offers nothing)
HDMI is digital, component is analog.
There is dozen like this (i guess you mentionned sound yourself also no ?), why don't you read the links i published earlier ?
2. Upscaling is not a freakin' HDMI "feature" you moron. The new PS3 firmware even states it will upscale over component.
3. "HDMI is digital, component is analog." AND?
Why don't you read your OWN links because you don't know JACK!There is dozen like this (i guess you mentionned sound yourself also no ?), why don't you read the links i published earlier ?
Ok, I'm convinced, this guy is a shill just like the other two, OP and bigapp.
Can the mods lock this so these goofs don't come back and bump this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if another new member REALLY had an interest in this product. :roll:
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Ok, I'm convinced, this guy is a shill just like the other two, OP and bigapp.
Can the mods lock this so these goofs don't come back and bump this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if another new member REALLY had an interest in this product. :roll:
I searched the internet looking for a product like this and was happy to find this thread. Then I saw people attacking OP and others as SPAM and refusing to believe anyone would have a need. I do have a real need. the scaler I'm looking at will do HDMI non-HDCP to 1080i component it wont do HDMI HDCP to 1080i.
I'm not a shrill: see my posts asking about the VP50 at AVSforums.com and HomeTheaterSpot.com If you want links I'll provide them.
Thanks for the warm welcome to your forum. I'll be sure speak up again!!! Not
Drew