Will Biden pack the court?

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Dec 10, 2005
27,692
12,137
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People always say ‘pass Medicare for all!’ and things to that effect. While that’s nice and all, do they really not realize that conservatives will invent a legal rationale to challenge it and the Supreme Court will likely go along with it, at least in part?
Even if "Medicare for All" passed and somehow survived a conservative supreme court, good luck getting it implemented in the ideal way. One of the more popular bills carrying the M4A name actually creates 50 separate payers controlled by the states. Think the conservative state legislatures will implement such a program in good faith for the benefit of their state's citizens?
 
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Stokely

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,281
3,083
136
Just yet another reason for rational people to get the hell out of the South. I'm in Florida, have been for a long time, standing on a purple island in a sea of red so it's not all that bad...until something like covid hits where the governor can really make a difference...or something like law driven by religious crazies hits. I'm hoping to be up north within a couple years, have to sell a business and get one more kid on to college first
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,526
44,078
136
Even if "Medicare for All" passed and somehow survived a conservative supreme court, good luck getting it implemented in the ideal way. One of the more popular bills carrying the M4A name actually creates 50 separate payers controlled by the states. Think the conservative state legislatures will implement such a program in good faith for the benefit of their state's citizens?

Since some Republican states refuse to implement the existing expansion even when approved by their own voters who also elected them I'm going with "not likely".
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
From a practical perspective will the TX law even prevent abortions? The answer is no.

People with means (including Republicans) will just go out of state to get them and the people without means will just go underground again resulting in a major mortality rise for poor women.
And a while bunch of people will be sued. Remember a company can ignore laws due to freedom of speech, but you can't drive a woman somewhere without being sued.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,478
15,458
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From a practical perspective will the TX law even prevent abortions? The answer is no.

People with means (including Republicans) will just go out of state to get them and the people without means will just go underground again resulting in a major mortality rise for poor women.
But poor women dying from back alley Abortions is exactly the punishment they are looking for.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,526
44,078
136
And a while bunch of people will be sued. Remember a company can ignore laws due to freedom of speech, but you can't drive a woman somewhere without being sued.

Yes the absolute lunacy of the law as written is substantially overlooked.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,320
4,590
136
Creating an individual cause of action so private citizens enforce laws is an absolutely insane idea that if not slapped down by the courts could metastasize into a nationwide disaster.
This right here. I don't think people get how dumb this law really is. It basically allows the States to shadow ban anything they want no matter what the Constitution says about it.

Let this stand and in a year you will be able to sue the clerk that sold a gun used in a robbery. Not just the person that was robbed, anyone that has some extra time and money laying around can sue. You don't even have to be an injured party.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,526
44,078
136
Creating an individual cause of action so private citizens enforce laws is an absolutely insane idea that if not slapped down by the courts could metastasize into a nationwide disaster.

My suspicion is that the court would intervene if a Democratic state did something similar and will fail to intervene when Republicans do it, as in this case if it is allowed to stand. We are on the precipice of total political asymmetry with regard to the law and political power in favor of the minority. I am not confident the country can endure that for very long while remaining whole.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,464
54,231
136
This right here. I don't think people get how dumb this law really is. It basically allows the States to shadow ban anything they want no matter what the Constitution says about it.

Let this stand and in a year you will be able to sue the clerk that sold a gun used in a robbery. Not just the person that was robbed, anyone that has some extra time and money laying around can sue. You don't even have to be an injured party.
Yup, a shadow ban is exactly what this is. The state isn’t banning a thing, it’s just creating the potential for ruinous liability that no business can sustain so it’s best not to try.
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,324
9,850
136
SCOTUS on Texas enforcing heartbeat abortion ban: "..."

What the conservative Court is really saying: "Some speech, including communication about basic medical facts, is less free than others"
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,251
9,439
136
Would it be common for SCOTUS to take up duplicate cases on the same issue, but for another State? If not, you can see why they declined Taxes.
  • In May, justices agreed to review Mississippi’s ban on the procedure after 15 weeks of pregnancy
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,320
4,590
136
Would it be common for SCOTUS to take up duplicate cases on the same issue, but for another State? If not, you can see why they declined Taxes.
  • In May, justices agreed to review Mississippi’s ban on the procedure after 15 weeks of pregnancy

No, they would only hear one of the cases, and the ruling would apply to both. What they would do though is invoke injunctive relief while they take a look at the case before them. Getting this wrong harms people, so normally the courts would say to hold off on that until they get a chance to rule on it. But in this case the court let the law take effect without comment, which normally means that the court is going to uphold the law.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
29,238
29,518
136
Would it be common for SCOTUS to take up duplicate cases on the same issue, but for another State? If not, you can see why they declined Taxes.
  • In May, justices agreed to review Mississippi’s ban on the procedure after 15 weeks of pregnancy
Normal course of action would be laws invoking new restrictions to be stayed pending litigation. The 5th circuit and now scotus have now abandoned the normal course of litigation.

This should be a wake up call for how radical this scotus is going to be.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
136
Normal course of action would be laws invoking new restrictions to be stayed pending litigation. The 5th circuit and now scotus have now abandoned the normal course of litigation.

This should be a wake up call for how radical this scotus is going to be.
Absolutely radical stuff.
They are actively reviewing the case. A stay is clearly the right call particularly for something as major as abortion within a state. Ginsburg is probably spinning in her grave.
Also wtf is up with the fifth circuit going against decades of clear precedent? I mean the Texas law is naked in it's ambition and has zero legal standing in the face of decades of precedent. I wonder how many of those judges are underqualified religiously zealot trump appointees
 

Dave_5k

Platinum Member
May 23, 2017
2,007
3,818
136
Absolutely radical stuff.
They are actively reviewing the case. A stay is clearly the right call particularly for something as major as abortion within a state. Ginsburg is probably spinning in her grave.
Also wtf is up with the fifth circuit going against decades of clear precedent? I mean the Texas law is naked in it's ambition and has zero legal standing in the face of decades of precedent. I wonder how many of those judges are underqualified religiously zealot trump appointees
2 of the 3 justices that pre-emptively blocked any district court review, without a hearing, and thereby blocked any judicial review prior to law going into effect were indeed Trumpians, third was a a Reagan holdover. Alito is the one who has blocked review (so far) at the Supreme Court level as he has authority over emergency petitions originating from the 5th.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,255
136
Absolutely radical stuff.
They are actively reviewing the case. A stay is clearly the right call particularly for something as major as abortion within a state. Ginsburg is probably spinning in her grave.
Also wtf is up with the fifth circuit going against decades of clear precedent? I mean the Texas law is naked in it's ambition and has zero legal standing in the face of decades of precedent. I wonder how many of those judges are underqualified religiously zealot trump appointees
Judges have zero accountability. Apparently it took them 240 years to figure out they could be nakedly partisan and ignore any law they wanted to, but nothing can be done about it. The constitution just doesn't work when half the people in government have no interest in operating in good faith.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
25,944
24,262
136
No, it's the only clear-eyed solution because it recognizes reality for what it is instead of what we wish it was. Conservatives do not care about violating norms of judicial confirmations to get their way. Liberals do. This has led to an asymmetric situation where despite Democrats winning the presidency 5 out of the last 8 times in the last 30 years (and really, the popular vote 7 out of 8) we have a situation where there is a conservative supermajority on the court.

So what I propose is that liberals wake up and realize that since conservatives don't care about judicial norms anymore, they shouldn't either. When you don't have norms to constrain behavior what do you use instead? The power you have. Add justices to balance back out the norm violations of the Republicans and then offer them a deal to reform the court once and for all to stop this stupidity. If they refuse to deal, add more justices. Rinse, repeat.

Sincerely though, if you have a way to make Republicans respect judicial norms again without expanding the court I'm open to hearing it. I just have no idea what that would be because I'm very confident they look at their actions over the last 5-6 years and see them as an unmitigated success.
As usual, your intelligent post will fall upon deaf ears on yet another ignoramus.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136
This all started when McConnell screwed and blocked Obama's justice pick. So now with the Texas abortion thing and SCOTUS, it's all hell has broken out. Expand the high court? YES! Definitely! McConnell started this fight and Biden can and should finish it via expansion. After what McConnell pulled on Obama, expansion would be truly justified revenge.

Besides, for such important life altering decisions we need many more justices on the high court, maybe even 20 or 25. Even with 25 liberals or 25 conservatives you would see fairer decisions than from only the nine currently. And now that republicans and religious fanatics realize that they can get away with pulling this crap via the Trump court, next they will go after SS marriage then Obamacare (again) and eventually onto a decision that will impact your life.

Plus, after the crap that republicans are dishing out to Biden over Afghanistan, and completely unwarranted considering Afghanistan was never Biden's fault in the first place, Biden should now show his anger over republican Biden bashing by proceeding with expanding the high court. They pull their crap over Afghanistan, then Biden pulls his crap by installing more liberals on the court.

This whole political thing could get very interesting should democrats not only hold onto the house and senate come 2022, but if democrats actually expand seats in the house and the senate. Then, America will see some real progress and they won't need worry about Joe Manchin anymore. Yes, it could get really interesting if democrats can excel in the house and especially in the senate.
 
Reactions: Muse
Nov 17, 2019
13,201
7,845
136
The solution.


I've said it before, I'll say it again.

13.


One from each Circuit. Yes FROM. No permanent Justices --- end all current terms.

Each annual Court Session gets a different 13 Justices, one from each Circuit. If a case comes up that one of the rotating Justices heard in their circuit, they sit that case out.

Those 13 are selected for each session at random by the Administrative Office Of The Courts, no input by the Executive or Legislative Branches.


See above. Learn it. Promote it. Make it so.

Engage.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
29,238
29,518
136
2 of the 3 justices that pre-emptively blocked any district court review, without a hearing, and thereby blocked any judicial review prior to law going into effect were indeed Trumpians, third was a a Reagan holdover. Alito is the one who has blocked review (so far) at the Supreme Court level as he has authority over emergency petitions originating from the 5th.
And in a 5-4 decision SCOTUS has thrown its own standard procedure out the window and refused a stay. So as of now the Texas law is in effect.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,221
9,845
136
This whole political thing could get very interesting should democrats not only hold onto the house and senate come 2022, but if democrats actually expand seats in the house and the senate. Then, America will see some real progress and they won't need worry about Joe Manchin anymore. Yes, it could get really interesting if democrats can excel in the house and especially in the senate.
In the words of the greatest wordsmith the English language has ever known, “'tis a consummation devoutly to be wish'd.”
And in a 5-4 decision SCOTUS has thrown its own standard procedure out the window and refused a stay. So as of now the Texas law is in effect.
Keep me the fuck out of Texas, hear that Elon Musk? You fucked up bigtime.
 
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