Win XP

[dumbellwkeyboard]

HI AZ..
my lil dell wont let me have more than 1 gig.

I hope people dont mind me rambling on here in this thread...
I guess its becoming a diary of a madwoman haha

Well, I got my floppy to obey me....it formats and reads

I put the cdrom from the xp into the ME computer, but it wont even hunt for another device or even give me a drive letter..but it powers on.. so I am thinking its just simply broke.
HOW that can happen, I just dont understand, because the cdrom was rarely used.

Ok..next

I tried to flash my BIOS..

but with that alert message upon startup I think its causing it not to work..
"showing bios and alerting me its not detecting the CPU fan"..

so..
I know Windows just loves being rebooted...
tried that many times, to no avail..
I am still at BIOS A01, trying to get to A02.

then I got to looking inside this pc..and I see a battery.
even with all power off, wont that battery sort of 'keep things alive'?
What IF..
I unplug everything....
pop that battery out..
put it back in
and start up my pc
would that reboot the motherboard? haha

But now I am no longer fearless on this one..because that battery is enclosed by plastic and I am not sure how to pop it out without breaking something crucial.


If ever I get in a position to do so.. I am going to build my next computer..
no guts, no glory..
and I love the guts of a computer, its both fascinating and frustrating lol

 

[Quiksilver]

The CD-Rom can die of just age, mis-use, or just simply IDE cable has a few missing pins. They're cheap now-days anyway.

As far as the battery, it's the CMOS battery. You could pull it out, let it sit out for a half-hour, press power button on case a few times (discharges capacitors), and pop it back in and see if it cures the cpu fan message. I'm not quite sure how to take it out myself either; sames most new motherboards either have a switch of a jumper you can move around, so I never had to pop the battery. It basically helps the BIOS with store settings, date, and time.

When I startup Windows, it goes to a bio page that tells me about the slave/master, primary/secondary

What was it saying about the primary and secondary hard drives. Along with the master/slave ide drives?

Also back when you were fiddling with the CPU fan, was they're any other fan connector next to it? or Perhaps you plugged it in backwards?

 

[VeryCharBroiled]

Originally posted by: dumbellwkeyboard
I tried to flash my BIOS..

but with that alert message upon startup I think its causing it not to work..
"showing bios and alerting me its not detecting the CPU fan"..

so..
I know Windows just loves being rebooted...
tried that many times, to no avail..
I am still at BIOS A01, trying to get to A02.

then I got to looking inside this pc..and I see a battery.
even with all power off, wont that battery sort of 'keep things alive'?
What IF..
I unplug everything....
pop that battery out..
put it back in
and start up my pc
would that reboot the motherboard? haha

But now I am no longer fearless on this one..because that battery is enclosed by plastic and I am not sure how to pop it out without breaking something crucial.

If ever I get in a position to do so.. I am going to build my next computer..
no guts, no glory..
and I love the guts of a computer, its both fascinating and frustrating lol

the CPU fan failure message isnt one you want to ignore. the Pentium 4 will throttle itself down if over heating so it wont die but you want it cool.

is the CPU fan actually spinning? it should be the only fan on the motherboard (other fans are mounted to the case, in the power supply and possibly a small one on a videocard), it should be smaller than a case fan, probably about 3/4 the size. if its not spinning check the fans plug to make sure its seated correctly.

or, it may have a big plastic shroud that fits over the CPU and a case fan pulls air through it. I remember some Dells were set up that way. in that case the case fan is the CPU fan.

if the CPU fan is spinning its probably plugged into the wrong fan header. the CPU fan is usually plugged into the closest fan header to it. unless it that weird shroud set up. it should be labeled "CPU fan" or similar in super tiny small barely legible writing.

confused yet? sorry

be careful about removing the battery, its pretty easy to mess up the holder. theres not much to reset in a Dell bios so no real need to pull it. if its keeping correct time, the battery is OK, they usually last about 4-5 years. but to remove it *usually* theres a little metal tab on the side that holds it in, use a jewlers screwdriver (or very small flat tip object, maybe a nail file?), *very* gently push the tab to the side, *very* gently slide the screwdriver tip slightly under the battery and pry the battery up a bit on that side, it should lift right out. it is *usually* a CR2032 battery, any drug store will have it. but again, no real need to do it if its keeping time.

you can reset the bios (not the same as flashing it) by hitting one of the following keys right after power on: F10, F1, DEL, INS or F12. I think its one of those. that will get you into the BIOS setup.

** Fearless or not, messing with the BIOS can cause very strange things to happen (including not booting), so be warned, "hear there be dragons" so I recommend not messing with it, just look at it for now. **

if you do the BIOS thing. there should be a "default" or "reset" option somewhere in there. but if it boots and detects the HDs and CDR theres no real need to do it, unless you just want to poke around. not much user stuff in a Dell bios. just make sure if you mess around the hard drives (might be called IDE or something) are set to "auto". if you mess with the BIOS settings and it fails to boot just go back in and set to "default." I think about the only things you can mess with on a dell bios is the time, date, and HD settings, and maybe on board sound/video setting. just remember, "default" will get you back to normal if you mess TOO much with it. but again, dont mess with it till you do some reading. in theory, if worse come to worse, you can pull the battery, discharge the power supply as was posted above, and get back to default.

the CDR being dead, as was said they can die from many reasons, is your old ME one working in the Dell?

bit late in mentioning this but you should be careful of static electricity when poking around inside the computer, especially in the winter with its dry air. always touch the case and or a metal grounded object before messing around inside. typically the kitchen table is good place to work on a PC as its well lit, no carpet (that can generate static electricity as you walk around) and you can touch the sink faucet do discharge any static before working on it.

building a PC is fun, now that you can experiment with your old ME machine you could practice by tearing it down to the bare case and rebuilding it.

as for flashing your BIOS: DONT! its far too easy for something to go wrong and if it does your Dell is dead meat. you only flash a bios to correct a problem or to support newer processors and such. leave it be for (for now anyway). Ive flashed many BIOSes and still cringe when doing so, even with a UPS (uninterpretable power supply that keeps a computer trucking if the power goes out). if the power glitches when flashing, or the BIOS is the wrong version, or its bad (old floppy etc) you usually get NO (zero, nada, ziltch) second chance to flash it again.

keep up the great attitude, youre doing fine so far!

 

[dumbellwkeyboard]

Ok, no other connector for a fan by the CPU and it really is the cpu... its running...

now I took that other fan out that is hooked to the case, figgering air holes were better than a fan blocking the way that wasnt running haha...
but up above that even is a big metal box that has a fan at the back of the case and its working

The slave/master thing was telling me
primary master is the number of something... starts with wdc, looks like a microsoft type number, but not a key.
primary slave - none
secondary master - samsung (well now HP because my cdrom from my ME computer is in it.
secondary slave -none

alert CPU fan not detected

I am to press F1 to get out of that.


For now, this computer is very ventilated because I cant put the side panel back on because my cdrom is too big physically to slide into the bay for this Dell, so I am pretending its and external drive haha

 

[dumbellwkeyboard]

Hi, well I tried to flash my BIOS but it wouldnt accept it so that was a blessing!

I havent shocked anything yet.. I wear rubber bottom shoes haha

Time and date work just fine.

So all this is ruling out a bad motherboard to me..

And that 'fan not detected', well if the fan is working, how can it message me saying its too hot? LOL



I should use that theory, if it isnt broken, dont fix it.
Im online, no IE errors, no connection failures, email works, floppy works, I can hear music with my old cd...just dont like having my computer opened up to the elements (like a curious cat I have here). But, when not in use I cover it up with a sheet... and actually shut down the power strip.
When I get a dvd that will fit in the slot, then I can close it all back up.


Computer wizards and inventors totally amaze me.

Ok...now something else I found!

run/msconfig/services

what in the world is running....a huge list of things going on..
some say 'stopped' some say 'running'..

Now, isnt that using my resources? Wouldnt all that stuff running make my pc run slower than it should?


ok nap time for me haha

 

[VeryCharBroiled]

hmm not sure about why the fan is reported as not detected.

grab this, speedfan, its a handy utility that will tell you fan RPM plus CPU and hard drive temps. it may or may not work on the dell (usually it does) so if it doesnt dont worry, nothings wrong with the motherboard its just one thats not supported. but if it does its nice to have. let us know what it says.

Originally posted by: dumbellwkeyboard

Ok...now something else I found!

run/msconfig/services

what in the world is running....a huge list of things going on..
some say 'stopped' some say 'running'..

Now, isnt that using my resources? Wouldnt all that stuff running make my pc run slower than it should?

heh curious you are.. thats good yes those services use RAM but thats why you have a gig and most are needed.

read this guide on services, hope you have a long time, its a long and comprehensive list. another warning, disable the wrong one and the machine wont run (lots of ways to kill XP as you may of noticed by now).

also do this: go to START, ALL PROGRAMS, ACCESSORIES, SYSTEM TOOLS, SYSTEM RESTORE and create a restore point.. make sure you select "create" not "restore" that will give you a bit of a safety net as if you do blow something up software wise, you can use Restore to an earlier date to get the system back to a point before it blew. its not bullet proof but it does come in handy.

BTW the systen restore bit is one of those services you saw (cant remember which one though, the guide will have it).

 

[EagleKeeper]

I suspect that your metal box is the power supplyI

 

[dumbellwkeyboard]

LOL
you are correct... that box goes the width of the wall. I didnt notice that at first.
Its alot bigger than my ME box.

You know...all these wires and each drive has the same colors. Yellow, Black, Red.
But, there are also Green wires. From the power box to the power button on the front of the case and also leading to the motherboard. Orange wires that lead to these same places. So these are the 'biggy' power wires right? Or maybe the green wire is some sort of ground wire?

I still have a P3 connector leading off the harddrive, a P8 coming from the power box (and shared with the cdrom). I have a Drive1 connector too.
And an empy bay.
Whatever I would want for those connectors would have to fit in the bay, because there isnt alot of distance between the unused pin connector and the one hooked to the cdrom.
What else is here besides cdroms and floppies?
I also noticed in those BIOS that the bootup order doesnt include a floppy.
but does include a Lan.. how come?

I dont think I am allowed to have 2 harddrives as there are no pin connectors hooked to the strip going to the HD and there are no more open pins on the motherboard to hook up another strip. So, I would have to buy a bigger HD and swap them out? That would also mean buying a data transfer cable? Or how else can I get info from one to the other?

Rather than unconnecting my cdrom. I have been emailing myself files from my ME I want to keep and then downloading them onto this pc haha
:shocked: I would die without all my pictures and all those awesome wepages I have found that I learn from and all my notepad comments for each one haha

Online is like having college right in your room, only problem is, I havent found my 'major' yet haha

 

[dumbellwkeyboard]

Hmmmmmmm.... unless, its possible to buy another cable strip that has two sets of pin connectors. Then I could hook up 2 HD's? Because the HD wires have an unused P3 connector.




totally fascinating..

 

[EagleKeeper]

Your power supply was designed for the original type of motherboard and devices that came with the original system. If you add on items and/or change componets that draw to much power, the PS ccan not handle it and may/will croak.

There should be a sticker on the PC that indicates the # watts it can support.



If you are talking about power connectors, you can purchase splitters for cheap.

If you are talking about the ribbon cables; you are only allowed to have two devices on a single cable (with special exceptions).

If you have a router or a bridge, you can just network the two computers together using the LAN. Faster than email. You just enable sharing on each system and the drive on one will be able to be mapped to the other.

Then it is just a drag/drop of files from one drive to the other.

The folks over in the Networking Forum can take you step by step through that setup.

 

[dumbellwkeyboard]

All these valuable tidbits I get here.. what an awesome place.

Well ok a new word..the ribbon..
Ok..
From the motherboard a ribbon is born haha... heading for the cdrom.
Can I hook up a hard drive to that left over pin connector?

"or"
could I buy a new ribbon that has 2 pin connectors and exchange it for the one
on the HD and add another HD? Possibly the one from my ME computer?!?!

Is there a reason why these HD's are setting vertical?
or is it just a matter of not taking up space..
Because I could set it horizontally in that empty bay.

I hear an errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound and I think its coming from that fan.
And I was thinking that since I did unplug it and caused that 'cant detect a fan' message..

How do you change fans then?
What if I wanted a new one..
if it wont acknowledge from memory the one it has, how will it detect a new one?


On startup, it doesnt take me to that blue screen called BIOS..
its just that black dos looking screen, telling me to be alert it cant detect the fan.

I will be peaking into the network thing.... would like to do that, and have hubby online while I am.. I would stalk him hahaha and skeer him to death.

thanks you all for your help..

 

[dumbellwkeyboard]

Has an idea..

Removes guitar from case..
sets case at her feet, opened..
Starts singing the bluez and playing her heart out..

As she watches all the people here...
putting tips in her case

from older parts they no longer want...
to the antec micro p180 case that holds up to 5 hard drives haha

I was signing white rhythm and blues..

now I can sing..

white ribbons and tools hahaha

*j/k*

 

[VeryCharBroiled]

Originally posted by: dumbellwkeyboard
Well ok a new word..the ribbon..

Can I hook up a hard drive to that left over pin connector?

"or"
could I buy a new ribbon that has 2 pin connectors and exchange it for the one
on the HD and add another HD? Possibly the one from my ME computer?!?!

Is there a reason why these HD's are setting vertical?
or is it just a matter of not taking up space..
Because I could set it horizontally in that empty bay.

I hear an errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound and I think its coming from that fan.
And I was thinking that since I did unplug it and caused that 'cant detect a fan' message..

How do you change fans then?
What if I wanted a new one..
if it wont acknowledge from memory the one it has, how will it detect a new one?

quick info on ribbons cables (they are IDE cables):

two types, 40 conductor, 80 conductor. the 40 is the "slow speed" and 80 is the "high speed." both flavors can have 2 connectors (support one device, goes from mobo to device - like the one to your HD) or three connectors (support 2 devices, goes from mobo to 1 or 2 devices - like the one to your CD that has the extra connector in the middle).

they look much alike, same connectors but the 80 conductor has smaller wires, if you look at yours youll probably see the one to the HD is an 80 wire (fine wires) and the one to the CD is a 40 wire (thicker wires). since CD are slower they usually get the 40 wire (however newer CD/DVD use 80s as they are mucho faster now).

so.. the upshot of all this? Yes you can put your old ME HD on that 40 wire ribbon that goes to the CD, it will just run slower. check the CD jumper, its probably set to "Master" so set the HD jumper to "Slave" and it will work, albeit slowly. plug the extra power connector (white squarish plug with red/black/black/yellow wires) and ribbon cable in and it should auto detect it. then you can copy all the stuff from the old HD to the new HD easily.

or, get a 3 conductor 80 conductor cable at radio shack or circuit city, they are only a few bucks.. not sure how common they are so call ahead, you want an "80 conductor IDE cable with master/slave connectors." then run both HDs off the new cable at full speed.

the HD can be vertical or horizontal, they just do it vertical to save space.

as for the fan, the one you unplugged that was making the noise, was it a big or small fan and were was it mounted (on the mobo or the case). is it still unplugged? did you grab the speedfan program I linked to? if you did what temps did it report?

if its the CPU fan you should replace it, they do are easy to replace but we need to know the size. if its a smallish fan mounted directly to the CPU (smaller than the one in the power supply) than its probably a 60 mm but if its a dell with the shroud that goes over the CPU its probably using a 80 mm rear mounted case fan.

either way fans are easy to replace. as soon as you replace it the computer will detect it and stop complaining.

or do you mean you unplugged it and then plugged it back in? and it makes the noise? if thats the case it may be spinning slower than the computer wants and thats why its complaining, it wants a minimum RPM to be happy. again, replace it and it will be happy.

so if this is rambling, Im in a hurry as I gotta leave.

EDIT: if you buy a new HD it will probably come with a new 80 conductor IDE cable, and if you connect your old ME HD to the 40 in the dell it will not really make much difference in speed as it will not be the primary drive (the one XP loads and runs from) and your old ME drive is an older model so its not a speed demon anyway, so dont rush out and but that cable.

 

[dumbellwkeyboard]

hi Charred..
you cant ramble enough to me, dont worry about that!

Ok..
speed ...that program doesnt detect my fans either, I cant get a reading on either one lol

but they are alive and running! And running fast too.
0 RPM on both fans..
No temp readings.

It whirled and whined since I got the pc, just wondered if maybe I needed to replace it.

It looks like a shroud.. its covering something on the motherboard. Its smaller than the other two fans and directly at the MB.

Ok to the ribbon, I see what I need..will go to CS and get one. Would love to just pull the stuff off my ME and put it all on XP comp. Wow to being able to use the parts from my ME computer.. This is so much fun.

It wont matter if win/me is on one HD and XP on the other?

I just found out in system info on my pc that the speedfan according to what I see is running, no errors....


thx charred...

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

You can get a decent Dell machine for cheap. It'd save you a lot of grief unless you're enjoying all this

 

[dumbellwkeyboard]

hehe, i must be enjoying it.
I have always been a glutton for punishment I think..

Its cool tho let me tell you why...
I just have to send a bit for shipping to a friend who gave it.

I dont have to go in debt..

And I am learning, I love to learn new things.

All it really needs is a cdrom and well the ram of course.
and tweaked haha

In the meantime, I can put my pennies back to save for a new one and I dont have to worry about the monitor ...etc.. Or maybe even, I can use alot of the parts from this one and use my pennies to build my own.

cash not credit.. been down that road before.. I like my freedom of cash n carry.

:heart: :thumbsup: :wine:

 

[VeryCharBroiled]

Originally posted by: dumbellwkeyboard
speed ...that program doesnt detect my fans either, I cant get a reading on either one lol

but they are alive and running! And running fast too.
0 RPM on both fans..
No temp readings.

It whirled and whined since I got the pc, just wondered if maybe I needed to replace it.

It looks like a shroud.. its covering something on the motherboard. Its smaller than the other two fans and directly at the MB.

rats I was hoping speedfan would at least report the CPU temp.

OK sounds like it needs a new CPU fan. the bearings are probably dried out or worn. its probably a 60 mm so theye harder to find at a store than 80s.

but..

fan repair 101: its not really a repair but can quiet it down for a while, usually this works for weeks to months but it will start making noises again. then you need to do it again. you need to remove the CPU fan for this. * NOTE: DO NOT REMOVE THE METAL FINNED THING (HEATSINK) - JUST THE FAN * - there is a thermal paste between the heatsink and the CPU under it that you DO NOT want to disturb. the heatsink should stay in place with the fan removed.

there *should* be 4 small screws that hold the fan onto the heatsink, at least all the CPU fan/heatsink assemblies from that era that Ive seen do. once you remove the fan (unplug from the mobo too), clean the blades of any crud with a q-tip or something. flip it upside down so you can see the small circular sticker on the center hub on the underside, should say something like "ball bearing," "sleeve bearing," maybe something else. you need to remove that label as the bearings are under it. what you need to do is put a ** VERY VERY SMALL ** drop of light oil on it.. something like 3 in 1 light machine oil, sewing machine oil, electric razor oil, something very light, Ive even used WD-40. but again you just want a VERY SMALL drop, like the size of a the head of a pin or less even. you just need to wet the bearing, not saturate it. too much will make a mess! then stick the label back on if you can (dont worry if you cant) and screw it back on, just snug the screws, dont overtighten them and plug it back in. hub side (has the support arms with the motor and the sticker you just removed) goes towards the heatsink. fire it up and make sure its spinning. hopefully it will be noise free. Ive quieted down a lot of fans this way but again its a temporary fix. but its free! and will buy some time.

Originally posted by: dumbellwkeyboard
Ok to the ribbon, I see what I need..will go to CS and get one. Would love to just pull the stuff off my ME and put it all on XP comp. Wow to being able to use the parts from my ME computer.. This is so much fun.

It wont matter if win/me is on one HD and XP on the other?

as long as the XP drive is set to Master and the ME drive is set to Slave it should boot right to the XP drive. the ME drive will come up (probably) as "D:"

have you been in the BIOS (the F1, F10, DEL etc at boot)? it will list the boot order. as long as it lists the XP drive before the ME youre OK. typically the boot order would be "1st -FLOPPY, 2nd - CDROM, 3rd - HD (something)" the "something" might be a drive manufacturer number or PRIMARY MASTER.

about speedfan, I think there is a "Dell" checkbox somewhere in there, make sure its ticked, I know its worked on some Dells Ive worked on in the past.

also here is a program you should grab as part of a general comuter tune up.. CCleaner, it will clean out your HD of temp tiles and other trash. just make sure you uncheck "cookies" under Internet explore and/or Firefox (in the "Cleaner" tab under "Windows" and "Applications) or it will erase your login cookies (sites that now automatically log you in would not know who you are, you would need to re-enter your name/password.. if thats OK then you can tell it to delete the cookies)

then run the Registry Cleaner part. Tell it Yes you want to make a restore point. exit when done.

then double click My Computer, Right Click the "C:" drive, select "Properties" - "Tools" - "Defragment Now" in the window that pops up you may have to select "C:" again and click "defragment."

both those steps may take a while especially if the previous owner didnt do them from time to time.

 

[strjms72]

you need more ram with that xp, and a reinstall for sure... adding another hard drive is not that easy if you haven't done it before

 

[VeryCharBroiled]

its got a gig, the max that mobo officially supports. I run XP SP3 on a P3 1.13 Ghz with 640 megs, runs Office Pro 2007, GIMP, other stuff fine. just gotta tweak the snots outta it

dumbellwkeyboard, did you get the ME CDR running in the Dell? A reinstall is a good idea, but you should get all the drivers and service packs ready 1st. and make sure the disks you got are the ones you need.