Windows 8 Dev Preview

[JackMDS]

People have different cognitive styles ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_style ).

For many that are new (or tried and gave up) the choice of less verbal oriented system might be a savior.

For Savvy users. If they want to use the Metro they will have to learn few more units of None verbal info.

Unfortunately there will be always people that Cognitively can not deal with Visual/Tactile memory, have inflexible Cognitive system, or just an oppositional personalty. Those can stick with the none Metro old interface.

 

[Chiefcrowe]

This is a pretty nice and handy feature:

Windows 8: 'Refresh' and 'Reset' your PC
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/windows-8-refresh-and-reset-your-pc/14780

 

[Zaap]

I kinda feel bad for Microsoft because people like yourself just don't understand

LOL!
That quote is priceless. Poor, poor Microsoft! Too funny.

The whole concept is what's silly. I said that of course it's a preview- that doesn't change the fact that this trend to make computers into toys with toddler interfaces is silly- it is.

Even the Mac-faithful, who are usually some of the most rigid 'stand by their company' blockheads on the planet, are critical of Apple for similar mistakes in Lion- the Launchpad is mostly USELESS and even hardcore Apple fans recognize it.

Now here comes Microsoft making Apple's useless Launchpad look like genius by comparison. It's nearly the same concept- only even more in your face and stupid.

There are ways to improve the user interface of computers, but just bloating the hell out of the start menu isn't it. That's all Metro is- a bloated start menu.

And I was wrong- it's not even full screen- it's BEYOND full screen. On a 24" monitor I have to side-scroll to see the whole stupid thing, rather than use what once took up a very small corner of even the smallest screen.

MS is proving once again that they're not a leader in what's really good UI design, (and definitely not higher taste levels) they're just followers in current trends, trying to make everything into an iPad or smartphone interface because that's what they think is 'hip' and trendy, but not even bothering to really delve into what actually makes an iPad or decent smart phone useful, and why it doesn't necessarily scale to the desktop.

 

[TheStu]

This is a pretty nice and handy feature:

Windows 8: 'Refresh' and 'Reset' your PC
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/windows-8-refresh-and-reset-your-pc/14780

Refresh/Reset look pretty good. Not liking the screenshots that I have seen of the new BSOD. The frowny face is flippant and isn't exactly what someone wants to see when their computer sh*ts the bed. 'Oops, we broked it!'.

The schizophrenic behavior that you experience going from Metro to Desktop is jarring, and the fact that there are 2 different UIs for IE is annoying. I cannot stand the Metro IE (the fact that I cannot figure out an easy way to bring up the address bar without hitting ctrl+T is the biggest issue). The ultra-large UI elements also kind of annoy me, especially since they are a little blurry.

2 Control Panels, 2 IEs, 2 ways to do a lot of stuff. And a completely non-obvious way to shut off the computer. You need to throw the cursor into the bottom left corner to invoke the 'start menu', which is dumb since that probably won't work very well with someone's finger.

Zune was not included by default, which was odd, and installing it wasn't exactly easy. It needed .NET, but wouldn't offer to download it for me, but somehow (can't remember the process) I got it to go.

Really loving the new Task Manager, it presents more information, in a more readable and understandable fashion, than it ever has. They updated the system fonts to Segoe (what WinMoPho) uses, which was a great idea as it is a gorgeous font. The new file transfer window is nice as well, but it still is awful at estimating transfer times. I transferred ~40GB of data from one SATA drive to another, and the initial estimate was 14 hours even though the speed it was transferring at reflected a 30 minute transfer time. It eventually changed but it took it a good 5 minutes to do so.

IE, when not the active window uses very little memory (30-40MB for 2 tabs) and 0-1% CPU usage, a welcome change.

All in all, I am interested in seeing how this shapes up, and especially want to see how microsoft will address multi-touch trackpads.

 

[hans030390]

I cannot stand the Metro IE (the fact that I cannot figure out an easy way to bring up the address bar without hitting ctrl+T is the biggest issue).

Right click.

Honestly, it seems like a lot of you are hating on it because you are unwilling to change to a new concept of how to use a computer. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, we aren't using keyboards and mice at all. It reminds me of when Vista came out. Everyone I knew bitched so hard about it, when many of the changes made to it were ultimately better, allowed for more productivity, and provided a nicer computing experience. Yes, at first it's confusing, but eventually you go back to the old style and realize how much better the new stuff is.

I'm not saying it's perfect. Far from it. There seems to be a large disconnect between switching from the Metro UI to the "regular" UI. It's not always seamless, and it doesn't make sense that there are two control panels, for instance. I can only hope that things like that are more polished with the final release. However, the overall experience itself seems like a step in the right direction. Would I be upset if things are largely the same with the final release? Not really. I'm sure that once I get used to it, I'll be able to do things just as fast as before. That, and the idea that I can have the same OS running on a tablet and PC is incredible, IMO. And, not only running on both, but actually designed with both in mind at the same time.

 

[trollolo]

hey guys, how in the heck do i give myself superuser/admin privileges? i cant install new software, nor give programs permission to access my program files folder etc etc. i was the only user on my win7 installation, any help?

 

[TheStu]

Right click.

Honestly, it seems like a lot of you are hating on it because you are unwilling to change to a new concept of how to use a computer. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, we aren't using keyboards and mice at all. It reminds me of when Vista came out. Everyone I knew bitched so hard about it, when many of the changes made to it were ultimately better, allowed for more productivity, and provided a nicer computing experience. Yes, at first it's confusing, but eventually you go back to the old style and realize how much better the new stuff is.

I'm not saying it's perfect. Far from it. There seems to be a large disconnect between switching from the Metro UI to the "regular" UI. It's not always seamless, and it doesn't make sense that there are two control panels, for instance. I can only hope that things like that are more polished with the final release. However, the overall experience itself seems like a step in the right direction. Would I be upset if things are largely the same with the final release? Not really. I'm sure that once I get used to it, I'll be able to do things just as fast as before. That, and the idea that I can have the same OS running on a tablet and PC is incredible, IMO. And, not only running on both, but actually designed with both in mind at the same time.

I would not have thought to try right clicking in what is supposed to be the touch version of IE. I have experience with Metro, my phone uses it, but on there I can bring up my 6 latest sites (easily), get to the address bar (easily) and do other things that I am having issues with on the desktop version.

Speaking of the tablet aspect, it might just be a dev preview thing but I am not sure how I feel about have the legacy desktop there, especially on ARM. They have already announced that ARM will not be able to run legacy apps, so why include the legacy interface? The most immediate answer is file access, but Microsoft doesn't employ dummies, I am sure they could figure something clever out.

As for having the same UI on both... Metro doesn't feel right, and it feels wasteful, on my 21" monitor at home. I haven't put it onto my Air yet to see how it feels on a 1366*768 display, and to see how it handles multi-touch, but the mouse is the wrong way to interact with Metro.

I understand why they put it on the forefront. They they don't then it becomes Media Center, something that some will use, and most won't. I just sort of feel like there are 2 (at least) development teams for Windows 8 that are vying for 'attention' the legacy team and the metro team. You look at what they have done with Task Manager for legacy, and explorer (not sold on the ribbon), and then everything else.

 

[Kalessian]

I guess my problem with where Windows is heading is that I see it becoming more and more locked down, more and more uniform. I can't imagine getting a windows 9 tablet with an intel processor and having to root it or something. I know this is not what's happening now but I think it's where we're heading.

This whole microsoft store bothers me. I like the idea of a package manager that can install programs for you, always have. I just hope that one day if I want to install media center plugins, I don't have to pay like $2 to unlock the plugin infrastructure or something like that. I mean look how locked down the Xbox is, and with "DLC" nowadays it's like getting nickle-and-dimed everywhere.

I remember with WinXP, with some minor hacking you could customize everything. I loved the System V theme: http://andymorum.deviantart.com/art/System-5-20568306

With Windows 7, I feel like everyone has the exact same desktop, exact same icons, same animations, etc. Maybe uniformity is a good thing, but I don't care for it. You should be able to take everything apart if you want to, IMO. And I feel that's what's being lost.

Just look at hacked drivers for x64, without devs paying verisign or whomever to sign your drivers you can't develop drivers for anything without going through big hoops to disable driver sign checking. This should be a checkbox in the control panel if you ask me. I realize the security risk to the average user, but power users are different.

Despite this, I like Win7, enough to convert me back from linux on most of my pcs, but I'm certainly willing to leave again at a moments notice.

 

[ViRGE]

I would not have thought to try right clicking in what is supposed to be the touch version of IE. I have experience with Metro, my phone uses it, but on there I can bring up my 6 latest sites (easily), get to the address bar (easily) and do other things that I am having issues with on the desktop version.

How you interact with IE and Metro depends entirely on your interface. Touch users would drag from the top/bottom; obviously mouse users can't do that, so they bound it to right-click instead. In theory they could make right-click some kind of touch modifier, but that might get kind of weird.

 

[CSMR]

Installed it today on an ancient AMD 939-based spare PC I have at work with dual 24" monitors. The good news: it ran very fast and was snappy even on such old hardware. (But then again, so does Windows 7). Install was very quick.

But then the bad news.

The whole 'metro' UI baloney is nothing more than the equivalent of a popup ad in place of a logical start menu, with fugly blocks of color showcasing crapware-level garbage of the sort most people uninstall off their PC on day one.

On a real system, and given the option, I'd uninstall half of this garbage- including metro- and just keep the traditional tried and true desktop interface.

You are using metro with a desktop, that's the problem. Metro is a simple tablet-optimized interface.
The desktop is a desktop-optimized interface.
So you shouldn't judge metro for being bad on a desktop.
Question is can the sucessfully have two systems in one, for tablets that can be plugged in and used as desktops.

 

[CSMR]

Question:
What happens when you are are running an app that exists in both interfaces? Say Outlook or IE. Suppose you want to switch to the other interface. What do you do? Just swith interface? Close the app, change interface, and start the sister app?

 

[Cardio]

All things considered, I think it works very well. Has not crashed in the 2 days I've used it. It it really fast! Certainly it is not complete and not released as a fully usable product. Amazed how much anger from those who cannot figure out how to use it and hate that it is different from what they have been using. Why did you try it if all you wanted was what you already had! It runs on an older computer with only 1G of ram pretty well. It is a rocket on a 4GHZ sandy bridge.

 

[JackMDS]

On EXOPC, which is an Intel ATOM Touch Tablet running Win 7 you do the following.

You touch the screen for 2 seconds and then while holding down the tocuh finger you tap gently with another finger on any other screen's spot.

Voila the right menu opens just like right click with a Mouse.

I use it every day (Yay, No more schlepping an "heavy" Laptop and yet having the power of Win 7/Office2010, etc. :thumbsup, after the initial two times exercise it is not an issue to use it without even thinking about it.

Of course if One is too young to have the span of attention to go through the two initial exercise trials, or too old to be able to coordinate two fingers to act at the same time, then even an Abacus might be a challenge. :sneaky: - - - - .

 

[TheStu]

How you interact with IE and Metro depends entirely on your interface. Touch users would drag from the top/bottom; obviously mouse users can't do that, so they bound it to right-click instead. In theory they could make right-click some kind of touch modifier, but that might get kind of weird.

I am not at home, but if a mouse user dragged from the top or bottom, would that activate it?

 

[ViRGE]

I am not at home, but if a mouse user dragged from the top or bottom, would that activate it?

No.

 

[M0RPH]

Guys, I don't have any discs to burn at the moment so can I install this from a virtual drive within Windows 7 if I'm installing to a 2nd partition? I started the install but it asks 'What do you want to keep?' and the only choice is 'keep nothing', then it just starts installing. I was afraid it was gonna wipe out my current Windows install, so I aborted. Does it ask which drive to install to at some point?

 

[TheStu]

Guys, I don't have any discs to burn at the moment so can I install this from a virtual drive within Windows 7 if I'm installing to a 2nd partition? I started the install but it asks 'What do you want to keep?' and the only choice is 'keep nothing', then it just starts installing. I was afraid it was gonna wipe out my current Windows install, so I aborted. Does it ask which drive to install to at some point?

Do you have a spare 4GB+ jump drive? You can use Microsoft's official tool to (allegedly, I haven't tried) make a USB installer.

http://images2.store.microsoft.com/prod/clustera/framework/w7udt/1.0/en-us/Windows7-USB-DVD-tool.exe

 

[JackMDS]

I did not do it myself, but it is an idea to try.

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Guide...s8DeveloperPreviewOffAVHDVirtualHardDisk.aspx

 

[Andrmgic]

I used the VHD method to test later leaked builds of windows 7.. it worked very well.. very little performance hit, as well.

With this one I just went all out and installed on my real hardware and my real SSD.

Got my first blue screen tonight.. and it was due to an ATI video driver.. woo!

 

[Griffinhart]

Another day of playing around with Win8...

They really need to put in a better way to manage tasks. Alt Tab or swiping from the left is a bit inefficient, especially when you have a number of apps open. It would be nice if you down swiped from start screen and saw a visual representation of all your running apps.

I'm still not a fan of win 8 on a desktop. We'll have to see how things develop over the next few months to see what changes.

I do, mostly, like it for my Asus EP 121 tablet, and it's not bad on my TN2 convertible tablet.

I've been playing around with pen support. Handwriting support has improved noticeably over Win7. It's fairly easy to draft an e-mail using a pen.

The touchscreen is pretty decent. better than the win7 onscreen keyboard.

I really like the ability to us a picture with gestures as a password.

I ran into some pretty bad problem adding a machine to my domain (SBS 2011). After logging in to the domain, the start screen was completely blank. When I removed it from the domain most of my tiles were gone.

There are also a number other bugs I've run into, but none of this is surprising for a pre-beta.

 

[JimmiG]

Honestly, it seems like a lot of you are hating on it because you are unwilling to change to a new concept of how to use a computer. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, we aren't using keyboards and mice at all.

I don't agree with this at all. I don't think 9" tablets are somehow going to replace powerful workstations with 4x27" monitors. Even if touch was available, using that on such a large surface would be very tiring for your arms and your whole upper body. It would look quite ridiculous actually, seeing people in offices flailing their arms at three or four huge monitors all day. In that situation, a mouse is far more efficient. With a couple of inches of movement, you can send the cursor flying across three 27" monitors side by side. I think tablets and traditional desktops and laptops will exist in parallel. They're just too different and meant for completely different tasks.

It's obvious that the old classic UI is horrible for tablets. Icons, menu items and buttons are too small for fat fingers to hit. So they had to invent a new UI *for those devices*. It's not about "computers for toddlers", it's about usability with this new input method.

Just as the old UI is horrible for touch, the new hone is horrible for mouse use, where your precision is essentially one pixel. I think it's impossible to design one user interface that works well for everything from 5" tablets to multiple 27" monitors. It's better if the two interfaces exist side by side.

 

[Griffinhart]

Right click.

Honestly, it seems like a lot of you are hating on it because you are unwilling to change to a new concept of how to use a computer. I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, we aren't using keyboards and mice at all. It reminds me of when Vista came out. Everyone I knew bitched so hard about it, when many of the changes made to it were ultimately better, allowed for more productivity, and provided a nicer computing experience. Yes, at first it's confusing, but eventually you go back to the old style and realize how much better the new stuff is.

I don't have a problem with change. I have a problem when change doesn't bring a benefit. Just being different isn't enough. I embraced changes from both Vista and 7 because they made sense and increased productivity. Start Search, Jump lists, they helped me be more efficient.

Windows 8 will make my tablet usage much more efficient than it currently is, and in that aspect, It's good. On the other hand, There isn't a single aspect of the Metro UI that will improve desktop usage over what Win7 allows for now. In fact, for desktop use, it is more cumbersome.

I'm happy to hear how people think the new Metro UI will improve my desktop usage though. While it's obvious how it will help tablets, I can't see how it will help a desktop user.

The current desktop metaphor used by current operating systems is old, but old doesn't mean bad. It has been under a constant state of refinement over 25 years. The desktop as a workspace for active and current projects/activities filing it away when you are done. It's a great method emulating the way work has been done for hundreds of years. It just works and is hard to come up with a better way to organize and manage projects and work.

Show me an improvement to my workflow, that makes me more efficient, and I'll be very enthusiastic, but for the desktop, I'm just seeing a hinderance more than a help.

 

[Modelworks]

My issue with OS , not just win8 but also some of the newer linux releases is the move to this dumbed down, can't change things attitude. It is placing total control on the software creator and removing the end users ability to customize. I sometimes find myself using windows xp in a VM and while I use win7 mostly. XP is still refreshing in both the speed of operation and the simplicity of the overall OS. I want an OS that gets out of my way, handles the hardware and that is it. I don't want it to become the software for email, web, and everything else. I realize I am not the majority but I am starting to miss the days when an OS was something you installed to run OTHER software.


Edit:
For those wanting to run it in virtual box. After the install you will need to copy the guest additions to the hard drive and set them to run under compatibility mode, win7, otherwise the installer will error out. The one to copy is the one marked x64.exe If you try to run it with the main virtual box launcher exe it will error.

 

[smartpatrol]

I'm still confused by the Start screen. It seems perfect for tablets but horrible for anything else. I have a couple questions:

1. How do I close Metro apps? I get that they're supposed to suspend, but it doesn't seem to work. There's at least one game included that will keep going after you go back to the start screen (you can still hear it). It only suspends when you open up another app. Is this just a bug?

2. How do I shut down? The only ways I've found are either from the ctrl-alt-delete menu, or else by logging off, unlocking your computer, and selecting shut down from the logon screen.

3. I'm still confused by the desktop. The Start button just takes you back to the Metro start screen. As far as I can tell, it looks like any non-metro applications you install will put an icon on the Start screen. Is this the only way to launch them? (I mean besides putting a shortcut on your desktop or task bar.)

I love the Metro interface for tablets, but how is this supposed to be useful for desktops? It's almost like it's running two completely different operating systems side-by-side.

 

[Andrmgic]

1. You don't close metro apps. They keep running until you change to another metro app or use the classic desktop. The tile puzzle app will keep playing a video if I leave it, but the audio doesn't play if I'm in another metro app. That could be a bug.. only MS would know for sure.

2. Hit Win + I and use the power button in the bottom middle.

3. What other ways did you launch programs in windows 7 aside from the start menu or a shortcut on your desktop? On a Pc, the metro UI is the new start menu, essentially.

Win+Q will initiate a search or you can just start typing like the old start menu. In the build they showed off during the keynote, you have the ability to create tile groups in the metro UI.. that capability is not present in the dev preview build that we have... so we have less control over the organization of things.