WoW - High Level Priest Question

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: oogabooga
warcrow : the best piece of advice i think anyone can give you in terms of your priest is

1) spec according to how you play. If you can heal in shadow fine. Realize disc/holy is probally the -optimal- build, but then again you dont need to be this build to survive mc.
2) your gear is just that.. gear. Your timing (which is basically our equivilent of skill) will matter more in the long run.

Strategy helps too. Just tonight in ZG I ran around like a chicken with it's head cut off while I healed to avoid the fireballs from that troll/bat bitch.

Everyone has to do that on phase two of the bat boss.

I am a shadow spec and I heal for my guild in ZG just fine, I would argue I do a better job than the disc/holy priests. But that can be contested, and I admit that.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: oogabooga
warcrow : the best piece of advice i think anyone can give you in terms of your priest is

1) spec according to how you play. If you can heal in shadow fine. Realize disc/holy is probally the -optimal- build, but then again you dont need to be this build to survive mc.
2) your gear is just that.. gear. Your timing (which is basically our equivilent of skill) will matter more in the long run.

Strategy helps too. Just tonight in ZG I ran around like a chicken with it's head cut off while I healed to avoid the fireballs from that troll/bat bitch.

Everyone has to do that on phase two of the bat boss.

I am a shadow spec and I heal for my guild in ZG just fine, I would argue I do a better job than the disc/holy priests. But that can be contested, and I admit that.

Why do you feel you do better?

*EDIT* By the way... I meant literally... I only stopped running to cast Flash Heal and Mana Burn and occasionally to bandage myself or someone else who was away from the boss. The rest of the time I was running in circles around the boss casting Renew and Shadow Word: Pain and zig zagging around the flames, lol. It was kind of amusing. We did it with 18 people because we failed the first few times and a couple had to log. Had 3 or 4 hunters though which helps cause their pets' DPS really makes it seem like we had a few over the 20 man limit.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: oogabooga
warcrow : the best piece of advice i think anyone can give you in terms of your priest is

1) spec according to how you play. If you can heal in shadow fine. Realize disc/holy is probally the -optimal- build, but then again you dont need to be this build to survive mc.
2) your gear is just that.. gear. Your timing (which is basically our equivilent of skill) will matter more in the long run.

Strategy helps too. Just tonight in ZG I ran around like a chicken with it's head cut off while I healed to avoid the fireballs from that troll/bat bitch.

Everyone has to do that on phase two of the bat boss.

I am a shadow spec and I heal for my guild in ZG just fine, I would argue I do a better job than the disc/holy priests. But that can be contested, and I admit that.

Why do you feel you do better?

Well, I would say because I have more skill. Disc/Holy is better than Shadow, but a poor or moderate disc/holy priest with the same gear will not do better than a skillful shadow priest. The worst priest in a game is a unskilled shadow priest. The best is a very skilled Disc/Holy. But, since skill really changes the outcome of everything, spec is only say, 33% of the battle, while gear is the other 33% and gear equates into the final 33%... Those numbers are obviously just used to describe the three different variables to game play and are not meant to be factual.

Edit ** Just noticed your edit. The bat boss should not require you to run at all times... For instance, I just flash heal, and run, then flash heal... The thing you have to do is move when you see the flame near you. Some healers will wait until they finish their flash heal to move and that can cost you the match. Just have to keep moving... Isn't a bragging session here, but we did have to kill the bat boss with 15 one night, but it was very difficult and took many attempts.

The boss that gave us the most difficult time was the tiger boss... I didn't find a good way to heal the MT without getting blasted... His blast in phase 2 is beyond the healing range and every time our MT kept dieing... Of course, then you have to reset... We finally beat the tiger boss, but it wasn't easy. Spider was difficult at first too, because it requires 2-3 REALLY good tanks. If they are not on the ball it will be a group wipe.

In short, the reason I think I am a better healer is... Because the MT does not die when I am the one healing him...

 

[Jeff7181]

So basically what you're saying is that there's a lack of skilled Priests, and you as a skilled Shadow Priest, can outperform an unskilled Disc/Holy Priest. I'd agree with that.

What's really going to make things interesting is this upcoming expansion I keep hearing about that will raise the level cap to 75. That'll make all these end game instances (ZG, MC, BL) doable in 5 man groups I bet.

 

[Cheetah8799]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
What's really going to make things interesting is this upcoming expansion I keep hearing about that will raise the level cap to 75. That'll make all these end game instances (ZG, MC, BL) doable in 5 man groups I bet.

75 eh? That's the biggest number I've heard yet... Most people are saying there is no way Bliz will even raise it because, like you said, it will ruin the current raid content.



EDIT

And for anyone who wants to know how to get your profile up on Allakhazam, you need to download their "WOW Reader". It's a UI mod that records the stuff you pickup and loot, then you run an app to upload it to their servers. I used to use it when I played WoW more seriously. Haven't bothered with it now that I re-started as a new player.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
What's really going to make things interesting is this upcoming expansion I keep hearing about that will raise the level cap to 75. That'll make all these end game instances (ZG, MC, BL) doable in 5 man groups I bet.

75 eh? That's the biggest number I've heard yet... Most people are saying there is no way Bliz will even raise it because, like you said, it will ruin the current raid content.



EDIT

And for anyone who wants to know how to get your profile up on Allakhazam, you need to download their "WOW Reader". It's a UI mod that records the stuff you pickup and loot, then you run an app to upload it to their servers. I used to use it when I played WoW more seriously. Haven't bothered with it now that I re-started as a new player.

I have read that too, but I am skeptical... If they do raise the level cap, I guess I am going to quit the game. Because if the level curve is anything like it was, then L74 will be around 600,000 + XP to acquire just for that level... That is insane! It takes somewhere around 4 million XP to hit 60 and I bet 60-75 would take an additional 4 million!

 

[Cheetah8799]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
I have read that too, but I am skeptical... If they do raise the level cap, I guess I am going to quit the game. Because if the level curve is anything like it was, then L74 will be around 600,000 + XP to acquire just for that level... That is insane! It takes somewhere around 4 million XP to hit 60 and I bet 60-75 would take an additional 4 million!

You won't quit. You know you're as addicted as the rest of us.

To be on topic though, I agree that the +healing items have become the thing to have if you want to max out your healing capacity. The devs have added so many +healing items it's insane. Early on in WoW, +int was the way to go, but it's changed since the game was released. I think for the better. More options now rather than everyone running around with the same outfits on...

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
What's really going to make things interesting is this upcoming expansion I keep hearing about that will raise the level cap to 75. That'll make all these end game instances (ZG, MC, BL) doable in 5 man groups I bet.

75 eh? That's the biggest number I've heard yet... Most people are saying there is no way Bliz will even raise it because, like you said, it will ruin the current raid content.



EDIT

And for anyone who wants to know how to get your profile up on Allakhazam, you need to download their "WOW Reader". It's a UI mod that records the stuff you pickup and loot, then you run an app to upload it to their servers. I used to use it when I played WoW more seriously. Haven't bothered with it now that I re-started as a new player.

I have read that too, but I am skeptical... If they do raise the level cap, I guess I am going to quit the game. Because if the level curve is anything like it was, then L74 will be around 600,000 + XP to acquire just for that level... That is insane! It takes somewhere around 4 million XP to hit 60 and I bet 60-75 would take an additional 4 million!

The level cap is going to 70. Here are some magazine scans detailing the expansion. The official announcements will come today or tomorrow at Blizzcon.

 

[ArchAngel777]

The level cap is going to 70. Here are some magazine scans detailing the expansion. The official announcements will come today or tomorrow at Blizzcon.

Wow! Thanks for the information! It looks like MC will be doable with a 20 man group of L70's instead of 40 L60's... ZG will be 5 man or 10 man possibly.

Edit ** The addition of Blood Elves to the Horde is what we needed! Finally an elf that doesn't look retarded. This will definately get my interest back into the game, since it was dieing a bit recently... Too bad this expansion will not be out for a while... :-/ Good to know so that I can prepare.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

The level cap is going to 70. Here are some magazine scans detailing the expansion. The official announcements will come today or tomorrow at Blizzcon.

Wow! Thanks for the information! It looks like MC will be doable with a 20 man group of L70's instead of 40 L60's... ZG will be 5 man or 10 man possibly.

Edit ** The addition of Blood Elves to the Horde is what we needed! Finally an elf that doesn't look retarded. This will definately get my interest back into the game, since it was dieing a bit recently... Too bad this expansion will not be out for a while... :-/ Good to know so that I can prepare.

Ok, I read as much of those scanned pages as I could. Did it mention a release date for the expeansion? It seems they still have some unknowns.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
I have read that too, but I am skeptical... If they do raise the level cap, I guess I am going to quit the game. Because if the level curve is anything like it was, then L74 will be around 600,000 + XP to acquire just for that level... That is insane! It takes somewhere around 4 million XP to hit 60 and I bet 60-75 would take an additional 4 million!

You won't quit. You know you're as addicted as the rest of us.

To be on topic though, I agree that the +healing items have become the thing to have if you want to max out your healing capacity. The devs have added so many +healing items it's insane. Early on in WoW, +int was the way to go, but it's changed since the game was released. I think for the better. More options now rather than everyone running around with the same outfits on...

I've found a bigger mana pool works better in groups with multiple healers. Otherwise people tend to heal the same targets and overheal and that just wastes mana. If I go with all my +healing gear I have about 6500 mana... if I use my +int gear I have over 8000. That's about 4 more flash heals... or ~4000 HP for the tank.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
I have read that too, but I am skeptical... If they do raise the level cap, I guess I am going to quit the game. Because if the level curve is anything like it was, then L74 will be around 600,000 + XP to acquire just for that level... That is insane! It takes somewhere around 4 million XP to hit 60 and I bet 60-75 would take an additional 4 million!

You won't quit. You know you're as addicted as the rest of us.

To be on topic though, I agree that the +healing items have become the thing to have if you want to max out your healing capacity. The devs have added so many +healing items it's insane. Early on in WoW, +int was the way to go, but it's changed since the game was released. I think for the better. More options now rather than everyone running around with the same outfits on...

I've found a bigger mana pool works better in groups with multiple healers. Otherwise people tend to heal the same targets and overheal and that just wastes mana. If I go with all my +healing gear I have about 6500 mana... if I use my +int gear I have over 8000. That's about 4 more flash heals... or ~4000 HP for the tank.

Very true, difficult to determind in Mana, Spirit, + Mana regen/sec or +Healing is the best... Since healing can have such variables, I am convinced no one has the answer. I think you can't go wrong with any blue items that add to your mana regen pool, size of the pool and more effeciency per mana used....

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
I have read that too, but I am skeptical... If they do raise the level cap, I guess I am going to quit the game. Because if the level curve is anything like it was, then L74 will be around 600,000 + XP to acquire just for that level... That is insane! It takes somewhere around 4 million XP to hit 60 and I bet 60-75 would take an additional 4 million!

You won't quit. You know you're as addicted as the rest of us.

To be on topic though, I agree that the +healing items have become the thing to have if you want to max out your healing capacity. The devs have added so many +healing items it's insane. Early on in WoW, +int was the way to go, but it's changed since the game was released. I think for the better. More options now rather than everyone running around with the same outfits on...

I've found a bigger mana pool works better in groups with multiple healers. Otherwise people tend to heal the same targets and overheal and that just wastes mana. If I go with all my +healing gear I have about 6500 mana... if I use my +int gear I have over 8000. That's about 4 more flash heals... or ~4000 HP for the tank.

Very true, difficult to determind in Mana, Spirit, + Mana regen/sec or +Healing is the best... Since healing can have such variables, I am convinced no one has the answer. I think you can't go wrong with any blue items that add to your mana regen pool, size of the pool and more effeciency per mana used....

I agree with that... but I don't think I would take mana regeneration over an intellect enchant. Unless I could get enough enchants on my gear to restore like 100 mana every 5 seconds.

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
I have read that too, but I am skeptical... If they do raise the level cap, I guess I am going to quit the game. Because if the level curve is anything like it was, then L74 will be around 600,000 + XP to acquire just for that level... That is insane! It takes somewhere around 4 million XP to hit 60 and I bet 60-75 would take an additional 4 million!

You won't quit. You know you're as addicted as the rest of us.

To be on topic though, I agree that the +healing items have become the thing to have if you want to max out your healing capacity. The devs have added so many +healing items it's insane. Early on in WoW, +int was the way to go, but it's changed since the game was released. I think for the better. More options now rather than everyone running around with the same outfits on...

I've found a bigger mana pool works better in groups with multiple healers. Otherwise people tend to heal the same targets and overheal and that just wastes mana. If I go with all my +healing gear I have about 6500 mana... if I use my +int gear I have over 8000. That's about 4 more flash heals... or ~4000 HP for the tank.

Very true, difficult to determind in Mana, Spirit, + Mana regen/sec or +Healing is the best... Since healing can have such variables, I am convinced no one has the answer. I think you can't go wrong with any blue items that add to your mana regen pool, size of the pool and more effeciency per mana used....

I agree with that... but I don't think I would take mana regeneration over an intellect enchant. Unless I could get enough enchants on my gear to restore like 100 mana every 5 seconds.

Think of it this way. The +22 int enchant will give you 330 mana (and a slightly higher % to crit w/ spell but we'll ignore that for now). A typical fight with trash mobs will will last about 60 seconds, meaning you would need 27.5 mana/5 secs just to break even.

Seems like a pretty bad deal, but when you take in to account that boss fights can last 5-8 minutes, it starts to make more sense. 8 mana/5 secs will regenerate 480 mana over 5 minutes or 768 mana over 8 minutes. So in long fights it makes sense to use mana regen gear. And because all the really hard fights are long, most people go with regen gear for their raid setups.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: ggnl

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
I have read that too, but I am skeptical... If they do raise the level cap, I guess I am going to quit the game. Because if the level curve is anything like it was, then L74 will be around 600,000 + XP to acquire just for that level... That is insane! It takes somewhere around 4 million XP to hit 60 and I bet 60-75 would take an additional 4 million!

You won't quit. You know you're as addicted as the rest of us.

To be on topic though, I agree that the +healing items have become the thing to have if you want to max out your healing capacity. The devs have added so many +healing items it's insane. Early on in WoW, +int was the way to go, but it's changed since the game was released. I think for the better. More options now rather than everyone running around with the same outfits on...

I've found a bigger mana pool works better in groups with multiple healers. Otherwise people tend to heal the same targets and overheal and that just wastes mana. If I go with all my +healing gear I have about 6500 mana... if I use my +int gear I have over 8000. That's about 4 more flash heals... or ~4000 HP for the tank.

Very true, difficult to determind in Mana, Spirit, + Mana regen/sec or +Healing is the best... Since healing can have such variables, I am convinced no one has the answer. I think you can't go wrong with any blue items that add to your mana regen pool, size of the pool and more effeciency per mana used....

I agree with that... but I don't think I would take mana regeneration over an intellect enchant. Unless I could get enough enchants on my gear to restore like 100 mana every 5 seconds.

Think of it this way. The +22 int enchant will give you 330 mana (and a slightly higher % to crit w/ spell but we'll ignore that for now). A typical fight with trash mobs will will last about 60 seconds, meaning you would need 27.5 mana/5 secs just to break even.

Seems like a pretty bad deal, but when you take in to account that boss fights can last 5-8 minutes, it starts to make more sense. 8 mana/5 secs will regenerate 480 mana over 5 minutes or 768 mana over 8 minutes. So in long fights it makes sense to use mana regen gear. And because all the really hard fights are long, most people go with regen gear for their raid setups.

True, but generally +22 intellect is easier to come by than something with even +6 Mana/5 secs.

Getting enough gear for 27.5 mana/sec will take either 3-4 extreme epic items, or it will take nearly all your blue gear to achieve that. I believe you can get up to +60 Mana/5 secs, but you would have to be decked out in the best fear known to WoW

Still, with that much mana regen on top of a decent spirit, you rarely have to drink.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: ggnl

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Cheetah8799

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
I have read that too, but I am skeptical... If they do raise the level cap, I guess I am going to quit the game. Because if the level curve is anything like it was, then L74 will be around 600,000 + XP to acquire just for that level... That is insane! It takes somewhere around 4 million XP to hit 60 and I bet 60-75 would take an additional 4 million!

You won't quit. You know you're as addicted as the rest of us.

To be on topic though, I agree that the +healing items have become the thing to have if you want to max out your healing capacity. The devs have added so many +healing items it's insane. Early on in WoW, +int was the way to go, but it's changed since the game was released. I think for the better. More options now rather than everyone running around with the same outfits on...

I've found a bigger mana pool works better in groups with multiple healers. Otherwise people tend to heal the same targets and overheal and that just wastes mana. If I go with all my +healing gear I have about 6500 mana... if I use my +int gear I have over 8000. That's about 4 more flash heals... or ~4000 HP for the tank.

Very true, difficult to determind in Mana, Spirit, + Mana regen/sec or +Healing is the best... Since healing can have such variables, I am convinced no one has the answer. I think you can't go wrong with any blue items that add to your mana regen pool, size of the pool and more effeciency per mana used....

I agree with that... but I don't think I would take mana regeneration over an intellect enchant. Unless I could get enough enchants on my gear to restore like 100 mana every 5 seconds.

Think of it this way. The +22 int enchant will give you 330 mana (and a slightly higher % to crit w/ spell but we'll ignore that for now). A typical fight with trash mobs will will last about 60 seconds, meaning you would need 27.5 mana/5 secs just to break even.

Seems like a pretty bad deal, but when you take in to account that boss fights can last 5-8 minutes, it starts to make more sense. 8 mana/5 secs will regenerate 480 mana over 5 minutes or 768 mana over 8 minutes. So in long fights it makes sense to use mana regen gear. And because all the really hard fights are long, most people go with regen gear for their raid setups.

Hmmm... I guess the longer the fight lasts the better it is. Cause it'll take 4 minutes for me to gain one flash heal or one renew from that regen gear. But I guess if you can get enough gear and enchants for like 15 or 20 mana every 5 seconds, that would work a lot better.

*EDIT* The only problem with that is, like ArchAngel777 said, regen gear is hard to find... and the only mana regeneration enchant is only +4 even 5 seconds to bracers.

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: ggnl

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777


I agree with that... but I don't think I would take mana regeneration over an intellect enchant. Unless I could get enough enchants on my gear to restore like 100 mana every 5 seconds.

Think of it this way. The +22 int enchant will give you 330 mana (and a slightly higher % to crit w/ spell but we'll ignore that for now). A typical fight with trash mobs will will last about 60 seconds, meaning you would need 27.5 mana/5 secs just to break even.

Seems like a pretty bad deal, but when you take in to account that boss fights can last 5-8 minutes, it starts to make more sense. 8 mana/5 secs will regenerate 480 mana over 5 minutes or 768 mana over 8 minutes. So in long fights it makes sense to use mana regen gear. And because all the really hard fights are long, most people go with regen gear for their raid setups.

True, but generally +22 intellect is easier to come by than something with even +6 Mana/5 secs.

Getting enough gear for 27.5 mana/sec will take either 3-4 extreme epic items, or it will take nearly all your blue gear to achieve that. I believe you can get up to +60 Mana/5 secs, but you would have to be decked out in the best fear known to WoW

Still, with that much mana regen on top of a decent spirit, you rarely have to drink.

You're correct about the difficulty of getting good regen gear, but that's not the point I was trying to make. I was trying to demonstrate that even a little regen gear will give big returns in long boss fights.

In a 5 minute battle, 8 mana/5 secs will generate the equivalent of 32 int. So if you're trying to decide between something like Mooncloth Robe (with 25 int) or Mindsurge Robe (with 13 int and 10 mana/5 secs regen) the primary factor you should consider is how long your fights are going to be. It would take 90 seconds to regenerate the 180 mana you lose by going with the lower int.

 

[abaez]

For longer fights spirit trumps mana/sec. Mana/sec is great for short fights of constant casting (because you stay in 5 second rule most of the time). Think Lucifron, gehennas, baron.

Longer fights where you have a rotation and run out of mana and have to sit to regen, spirit is best. Intel is good but doesn't matter as much because you *will* run out of mana and will need to regen, then it becomes a question of how fast you can regen it back and not your max mana. If you are out of the 5 second rule, spirit regens faster than mana/sec.

 

[Jeff7181]

What's the 5 second rule?

I haven't had good experiences with spirit gear. I added 30 spirit to my gear by swapping some things, and I always regenerate 2100 mana per minute. Someone in game mentioned something about spirit being bugged and giving diminishing returns the more you have.

You say sit to regen... does mana/health really regen faster when you're sitting rather than standing? Assuming of course you're not drinking/eating since you can't do either while in combat.

 

[abaez]

5 second rule = for 5 seconds after a spell is cast you do not gain mana (negating any amount of spirit). This does not apply to mana/sec items which regen all the time and are not affected by 5 second rule.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: abaez
5 second rule = for 5 seconds after a spell is cast you do not gain mana (negating any amount of spirit). This does not apply to mana/sec items which regen all the time and are not affected by 5 second rule.

Disc Holy priest, or a Mage with Mage Armor will still rely on spirit for regen.

Mage * Buff Mage Armor = 30% regen rate while casting.

Priest * Talent Skill in Disc Tree = 15% regen rate while casting.

Additionally, the priest can get three peices of trascendance and get another 15% bonus, to make a total of 30%. Spirit still matters a TON in those situations. If you did get 30% regen rate while casting, you will end up with a good 20-25 mana/tick. A tick is every two seconds.