WTF!!!!!! - Virginia Tech

[mlm]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: da loser
they keep interviewing his suitemates. did he have a room by himself? can't imagine a roommate not noticing the guns

Why? They are not large. I'm sure my roommates did things in the room I had no idea about... and don't want to know about.

not only that, but there is nothing wrong with owning guns.
it's funny how people automatically think of guns as evil or bad.

There's nothing wrong, but there are surely rules against storing guns on campus.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Doboji
After reading parts of Cho's "manifesto" it occurs to me that Cho, and people like him(And BTW there are MANY other people from the same perspective) are seriously lacking important perspective.

Are there alot of rich spoiled little snobs on college campuses? yes absolutely, I myself remember being frustrated that while I had no car at all, many of the kids around me were driving lexuses and BMWs... however there are 2 really important points that he's missing here.

1) You are still attending an American University... that in and of itself makes you yourself a spoiled little snob in relation to much of the world. It means(assuming you don't kill yourself and others) you will have an education allowing you to earn a much better living than much of the rest of the country let alone the rest of the world.

2) If you were a parent, wouldn't you also want the best for your children? Are you an evil snob for wanting your children to be happy, and live a better life than you? If Mr. Cho were to grow up and earn his own living is there any doubt he would also seek the best for his children?

I think in the end Cho proved one thing... he was way more selfish, and spoiled BY FAR than any of his victims.

-Max

The whole thing proved he was very mentally ill. When I watched his video I saw a disturbed man who lost the capability to reason and think logically.

I wonder if his family ever showed him any love.

It sounds like state and federal laws made it difficult for the VT administration to do anything about Cho - Link

For the most part, universities cannot tell parents about their children?s problems without the student?s consent. They cannot release any information in a student?s medical record without consent. And they cannot put students on involuntary medical leave, just because they develop a serious mental illness.

Nor is knowing when to worry about student behavior, and what action to take, always so clear.

?They can?t really kick someone out because they?re writing papers about weird topics, even if they seem withdrawn and hostile,? said Dr. Richard Kadison, chief of mental health services at Harvard University. ?Most state laws are pretty clear: you can only bring students to hospitals if there is imminent risk to themselves or someone else, so universities are in a bit of a bind that way.?

Like all large scale tragedies, there were multiple points of failure leading up to the event. It really is amazing.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: mlm

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: da loser
they keep interviewing his suitemates. did he have a room by himself? can't imagine a roommate not noticing the guns

Why? They are not large. I'm sure my roommates did things in the room I had no idea about... and don't want to know about.

not only that, but there is nothing wrong with owning guns.
it's funny how people automatically think of guns as evil or bad.

There's nothing wrong, but there are surely rules against storing guns on campus.

VT is a "gun-free" zone. Which works fine for the students that follow the rules.

My freshman dorm was an "alcohol-free" zone for those under 21. Which was followed to the letter of the law let me tell you. Especially on the first day when my fellow freshman roommate rolled a giant cooler full of beer into our room and stocked our fridge full of it.

 

[PeeluckyDuckee]

Any normal person having just shot someone I would think would not be able to do as he did, so focused on the task at hand, a job that's not yet finished. He was so set in his mind to do what still needed to be done, take the time to I assume videotape himself, burn it to CD, head to the post office, then come back gather himself together for the next "job". He didn't seem at all phased at what was taking place.

When he was videotaping himself I notice he looked down quite often, wondering if some of what he said was actually prepared?

No words on what they found in the hard drive of his computer eh?

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: exdeath

Originally posted by: RobsPics

Originally posted by: exdeath
I didn't like rich brats and snobs either. I dealt with it by moving my way up and surpassing them in the end. Aside from everything else thats wrong with killing innocent people, the look of economic defeat and resentment in their living face is much more pleasing.

Please seeks some psychiatric counseling.

We don't need another deadly massacre.

***bookmarked for future reference****

How did you learn to operate a forum without knowing how to read?

Rich snobs give me ambition and motivation in life to work hard and succeed and make up for temporary deficiencies so that I may one day surpass them and flip the game board around. I love running into people down the road who thought they were better than me a few years before, after I have nicer things or more accomplishments than they ever did.

Where the hell did you get 'deadly massacre' out of that? No need to worry about me. Worry instead about the rich sheltered snobs going nuts after they are cut off from their parents tit and can't face the real world after all their bragging and superiority. It's a hit to the self esteem when all the people you put down are suddenly above you.

You sound like you may seriously need professional help. Your level of self-aggrandizement and professed hunger for "revenge" suggest you have issues. It concerns me that you are a gun owner, quite frankly.

Oh no someone who doesn't think like you think they should, they must need therapy :roll:

Everyone has their issues, whether you like it or agree with them or not. People are not robots, they feel things like resentment, envy, revenge, etc. What do you propose we do, sedate and round everyone up and send them to reeducation camps if they start to get out of line from your ideals and not feel the way you want them to?

My entire point is some people choose to deal with their issues in ways that are actually socially acceptable. Is there something wrong with desiring and achieving greater success than those you envy rather than committing mass murder?

Or do you just want to sedate and imprison people for feeling such things like envy in the first place? You can't control evils like envy, all you can do is impose consequences for acting on those things in unacceptable ways, as Cho did.

While I am not an expert in the field, I am going to guess with a high probability of being 100% correct, that 'professional help' attempts to drive that exact point home for people who need it; it reinforces the fact that yes you are indeed human and will experience negative feelings from time to time, and that it is 100% natural to have those feelings, but that you must channel those feelings and deal with those issues in ways that are socially appropriate.

Try reading all of my posts next time, in their proper contexts, before you lecture me. You'll find that there is no need to be concerned.

 

[Queasy]

Victim's family pull out of Today show after NBC airs Cho's video

The first half hour of this morning's "Today" offered an unusual window into NBC's decision to air some of the materials that the Virginia Tech killer, Cho Seung-Hui, had mailed to the network.

Matt Lauer introduced the topic.

MATT LAUER: It puts us in an unusual position, because obviously at NBC News we always want to cover the important stories of the day and the massacre at Virginia Tech is one of the most disturbing and tragic stories any of us will ever cover. But we're not used to becoming part of the story, and with this package that he sent us, Cho has made us in some way part of the story

MEREDITH VIEIRA: The decision to air some of the images he sent to us: the video clips and the photos and to discuss what was contained in that rambling and hate-filled manifesto was not taken lightly, it was not made quickly, and we understand that this is going to be seen as devastating to many people who lost loved ones in the shooting. In fact I will tell you that we had planned to speak to some family members of victims this morning but they cancelled their appearances because they were very upset with NBC for airing the images.

LAUER: And let's be honest. There are some big differences of opinion right within this news division as to whether we should be airing this stuff at all, that we're taking the right course of action. But we've made the decision, because by showing some of this material, perhaps it'll help us understand or answer the question 'why?' Why did it happen? If we can examine how a person who can say what he says and then do what he did, fail to be taken off the streets prior to committing these murders. But let me say that while we will show you some of what we received, it will be just a very small percentage. Because to be honest, after you see a bit of it you're going to get the idea. We feel strongly that this is not video that we need to run in some kind of an endless loop, and so we will severely limit the amount of footage that you're going to see.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: PeeluckyDuckee
Any normal person having just shot someone I would think would not be able to do as he did, so focused on the task at hand, a job that's not yet finished. He was so set in his mind to do what still needed to be done, take the time to I assume videotape himself, burn it to CD, head to the post office, then come back gather himself together for the next "job". He didn't seem at all phased at what was taking place.

When he was videotaping himself I notice he looked down quite often, wondering if some of what he said was actually prepared?

No words on what they found in the hard drive of his computer eh?

Well I just watched the video and the first thing that strikes me is that he is CLEARLY completely psychotic at that point in time. Complete delusional break from reality. Nearly classic schizophrenia in my mind. Working in an ER I've seen a few and he fits the profile given his behavior. I mean look at the video, clearly delusional, clearly grandiose and yet persecutory at the same time. Yet through all this he has a totally flat affect, no emotions, no expressions, just blames everyone but himself. The world is out to get me attitude. He clearly needed help and never got it.

 

[iamwiz82]

I do not see any mentions of what "Ismail Ax" meant in the thread. Thoughts? Is is the Muslim meaning, or a reference to "The Prarie"?

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
I do not see any mentions of what "Ismail Ax" meant in the thread. Thoughts? Is is the Muslim meaning, or a reference to "The Prarie"?

<shrug> I don't think he showed in Islamic Jihad tendencies so I lean towards the book.

 

[Queasy]

WaPo has a detailed moment by moment detail of the shootings.

The teacher and his dozen students had heard too much, though they had not seen anything yet. They had heard a girl?s piercing scream in the hallway. They had heard the pops and more pops. By the time the gunman reached the room, many of the students were on the window ledge. There was grass below, not concrete, and even some shrubs. The old professor was at the door, which would not lock, pushing against it, when the gunman pushed from the other side. Some of the students jumped, others prepared to jump until Librescu could hold the door no longer and the gunman forced his way inside.

Matt Webster, a 23-year-old engineering student from Smithfield, Va., was one of four students inside when the gunman appeared. ?He was decked out like he was going to war,? Webster recalled. ?Black vest, extra ammunition clips, everything.? Again, his look was blank, just a stare, no expression, as he started shooting. The first shot hit Librescu in the head, killing him. Webster ducked to the floor and tucked himself into a ball. He shut his eyes and listened as the gunman walked to the back of the classroom. Two other students were huddled by the wall. He shot a girl, and she cried out. Now the shooter was three feet away, pointing his gun right at Webster.

?I felt something hit my head, but I was still conscious,? Webster recalled. The bullet had grazed his hairline, then ricocheted through his upper right arm. He played dead. ?I lay there and let him think he had done his job. I wasn?t moving at all, hoping he wouldn?t come back.? The gunman left the room as suddenly as he had come in.

How lucky do you think Cho's roommates feel right now?

 

[radioouman]

 

[fallenangel99]

The world is out to get me attitude. He clearly needed help and never got it.

He really did get help though. A lot of people tried to help him - his roommates tried to talk to him, his parents called and reported that he might be suicidal, his teacher tried to help him, he got admitted to a mental health facility.

I mean, what do you when someone doesn't want to be helped?? If your roommate speaks to you and you don't even look at them, what can you do?? Other than strapping him to a gurney, and injecting medicine in him, I think every person involved did their duty. He clearly did not want to be helped at all.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: fallenangel99

The world is out to get me attitude. He clearly needed help and never got it.

He really did get help though. A lot of people tried to help him - his roommates tried to talk to him, his parents called and reported that he might be suicidal, his teacher tried to help him, he got admitted to a mental health facility.

I mean, what do you when someone doesn't want to be helped?? If your roommate speaks to you and you don't even look at them, what can you do?? Other than strapping him to a gurney, and injecting medicine in him, I think every person involved did their duty. He clearly did not want to be helped at all.

At that point, they should be committed. However, the judge that ruled he was mentally ill put him in out-patient treatment instead of having him committed.

This is also why he was able to purchase hand-guns. Since he was sent to out-patient treatment, his name didn't show up in whatever database it is they use to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill.

As I said previously....multiple points of failure.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: fallenangel99

The world is out to get me attitude. He clearly needed help and never got it.

He really did get help though. A lot of people tried to help him - his roommates tried to talk to him, his parents called and reported that he might be suicidal, his teacher tried to help him, he got admitted to a mental health facility.

I mean, what do you when someone doesn't want to be helped?? If your roommate speaks to you and you don't even look at them, what can you do?? Other than strapping him to a gurney, and injecting medicine in him, I think every person involved did their duty. He clearly did not want to be helped at all.

Again, the unfortunate price for living in a free society. On one side of the coin nobody wants to imprison someone or take away their rights on mere presumption when they haven't done anything wrong yet. On the other side, it's too late after they've shot up a school and given society reasonable cause to imprison them.

The undesired side effect is that people in understandable frustration of the above conundrum, will lash out with desire to eliminate our rights and freedoms in a vain attempt to cope with that frustration at any cost.

"Those who would sacrifice freedom for temporary security deserve neither."
- Benjamin Franklin

The alternative of course, is living in a society where the government polices your every thought and throws you in jail without trail for anything they feel like, such as frowning or flipping the bird, because you will obviously go on murderous rampage next.

Anybody who doesn't understand everything I just said will be at a loss to try to understand why incidents like this shooting happen.

 

[Queasy]

MSNBC has posted some of Cho's "manifesto".

 

[bdude]

Originally posted by: fallenangel99

The world is out to get me attitude. He clearly needed help and never got it.

He really did get help though. A lot of people tried to help him - his roommates tried to talk to him, his parents called and reported that he might be suicidal, his teacher tried to help him, he got admitted to a mental health facility.

I mean, what do you when someone doesn't want to be helped?? If your roommate speaks to you and you don't even look at them, what can you do?? Other than strapping him to a gurney, and injecting medicine in him, I think every person involved did their duty. He clearly did not want to be helped at all.

It's not a matter of him not wanting to be helped. That doesn't make any difference; this guy should've been treated regardless of how he felt about it. Somehow this maniac fell through the cracks and now we need to learn from it.

 

[krunchykrome]

Originally posted by: Queasy
MSNBC has posted some of Cho's "manifesto".

In one of those pictures, he writes "You wanna rape us Debra...." . Wasnt that the name of the teacher who had sex with the student(s)?

This leads me to believe that he was molested or taken advantage of when he was younger by a teacher or an authoritive figure.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: Queasy
MSNBC has posted some of Cho's "manifesto".

In one of those pictures, he writes "You wanna rape us Debra...." . Wasnt that the name of the teacher who had sex with the student(s)?

This leads me to believe that he was molested or taken advantage of when he was younger by a teacher or an authoritive figure.

Also John Mark Karr....it is a possibility.

 

[PeeluckyDuckee]

I think he knew NBC would take him up on his offer and make his mailings public.

From reading the notes that goes along with the pictures, I'm thinking he is using the media as his medium to voice what's on his mind, not to the world but directly to one or more persons he has been in touch with and has affected him so deeply. or who may have "wronged" him. His audience is not the world, but probably a select few that are still living amongst us.

Who is this person that he speaks of? He mentioned that he could have fled but chose not to and deal with it. Where would he have fled to and who is he fleeing from?

Perhaps another reason he wants the media and law enforcement to get involved is he wants to "borrow" the law enforcements' expertise in criminal investigations to bring something to light that he cannot do on his own.

At this point, who other person(s) are out there of interest to law enforcement? What information is being held back, if any, to prevent hinderance of progress to the case? Was there any other fingerprints discovered on the guns or his laptop? Any other dna found in his vehicle? What does his credit card statement history reveals?

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: Queasy
MSNBC has posted some of Cho's "manifesto".

In one of those pictures, he writes "You wanna rape us Debra...." . Wasnt that the name of the teacher who had sex with the student(s)?

This leads me to believe that he was molested or taken advantage of when he was younger by a teacher or an authoritive figure.

Also John Mark Karr....it is a possibility.

It possible, but it's also possible that it's just gibberish.

 

[roguerower]

I read the detailed moment to moment report of what happened and couldn't stop shaking at the end.

R.I.P. Matt La Porte, brother and comrade lost but never forgotten.
VTCC '09

 

[JoPh]

Recognizing the unprecedented outpouring of sympathy and goodwill from people worldwide, Virginia Tech has set up the Hokie Spirit Memorial Fund, the official place for donations. Other websites soliciting donations for victims of the shootings at Virginia Tech April 16 may be fraudulent.

Separately, the United Way of New River Valley has established an account to provide assistance to victims? families for funeral and burial costs, transportation costs, or other immediate costs. Donations may also cover cost for uncovered medical costs to wounded victims and for community agencies that may incur unusual costs associated with responding to the event. Contributions may be made via www.unitedwaynrv.org or by mailing gifts to UWMRF, P. O. Box 6202, Christiansburg, VA 24068. Please indicate that your donation go specifically to this fund. For more information: 540-381-2066 or stephanie@unitedwaynrv.org.

As an alternative, donations can also be made to the American Red Cross or the Salvation Army who have been onsite in Blacksburg aiding with relief efforts.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[exdeath]

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx...d=79fa4ff5-d3d0-4042-9617-6dbfce808d68

http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/80510

 

[Dacalo]

This psycho reminds me of a roommate I had in college. There were three of us, I shared the bigger room with another guy and this psycho (I will call him John) had his own room. John was like this guy, didn't talk much, anti-social, and just creepy. Often, I would make some food and take it to my room since it was so damn cold; my room was warmer due to the computers. John got all pissed off at me, saying I am doing that to alienate him. He thought the whole world was against him too. Sometimes, he has that angry look on his face. It didn't scare me, but it bothered me.

He was taking medication though, and his parents were well aware of his "condition." He abruptly moved out one day and never heard from him again.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Dacalo
This psycho reminds me of a roommate I had in college. There were three of us, I shared the bigger room with another guy and this psycho (I will call him John) had his own room. John was like this guy, didn't talk much, anti-social, and just creepy. Often, I would make some food and take it to my room since it was so damn cold; my room was warmer due to the computers. John got all pissed off at me, saying I am doing that to alienate him. He thought the whole world was against him too. Sometimes, he has that angry look on his face. It didn't scare me, but it bothered me.

He was taking medication though, and his parents were well aware of his "condition." He abruptly moved out one day and never heard from him again.

There is a difference between a sociopath and a psychopath.

Many people feel more comfortable alone and don't like being around other people. That is a personal lifestyle choice, it doesn't make them a murderer. People with high IQs for example typically keep to themselves because they don't fit in with 'normal' people who care only about whats on TV or what the latest CD or fashionable cell phone accessory is, and they are quite content with that and lead happy productive lives.

All psychopaths are usually sociopaths, but not all sociopaths are psychopaths, etc. Please don't confuse the two.

Big BIG difference. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be left alone and not wanting to party and socialize with everyone else every night.

I am technically sociopathic and a anti-social loner in person, but I do have a sense of moral responsibility and social conscience and respect the right of others to live their own lives freely regardless of my opinions. I would even jeopardize my own life to protect an innocent person who I don't know, even if I didn't agree with their views.

I could also take the life of someone like Cho, if I saw him in the act of doing what he did, without hesitation, regret, or remorse, out of obligation towards my fellow human beings and a hard wired desire for self preservation. And I would do it with the same deliberate calculated indifference that he exhibited killing innocents. It's just something I could do with neither pleasure nor guilt. If that rattles your cage and scares you, so be it, just don't ask questions or try to understand it. You can't. Just be glad that people like me exist because they make the best police officers, soldiers, etc. and are willing to bear the burden of making difficult choices that ordinary people simply can't make. It's extremely rare to find people who have that kind of indifference and control of their human emotions but who have willfully retained a sliver of humanity. It is a very powerful combination that allows them to be able to understand society from a neutral outside third person perspective and have moral values because they have a desire to do what is right and coexist peacefully with the rest of society.

They are the wolves in sheep skins, hiding in the flocks not to prey on them or take advantage of their weakness, but to live peacefully and quietly amongst them. But they will not hesitate to temporarily revert to their primitive barbaric form when necessary to protect them from other wolves, so that they can graze and sleep, sometimes without ever being aware that they were ever threatened.