X-Box vs PS2

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Jrvr6

Junior Member
Aug 10, 2000
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Well to you who can't read understand that the 733 Pentium will be a modifed unit just for the Xbox! Need proof? Read this.
...and if there are any video card affictionados here rumord to debut is some kind of emmbedded ram of sorts in Nvidias and even for that matter Matrox's new chip!

150mil polygons fully lit.... maybe.

 

Stephen24

Senior member
Jul 21, 2000
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I am betting the X-Box is going to rock. The only reason why it might fail is because a lot of people won't know about it and a lot of gamers out there are to stupid to realize that there are other consoles then the PS2.
 

OneEng

Senior member
Oct 25, 1999
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The OS for the Xbox is 150kb and it is on the DVD not on the hardware. So throw all your embedded theories out along with the hack into Xbox ones. You obviously are spouting off at something you have NO clue about.

Bwaaaahhhh haa haa haa. Pahleeeeease! What you are suggesting is like saying you could strip enough parts off of a Mack truck to make it fit into a dog house, and after you got it stripped, it would out run a top fuel racer.

I don't know any way nice to put this ..... You are WRONG.

bhuie,
Good questions.

Are we getting close to the point where a general purpose processor will be used in game consoles? Not really. I work primarily in the automotive market, but can tell you that even though Ford Motor Company may say they are using an "Off the shelf" processor (Their Black Oak processor is Motorola's MPC555), rest assured that Ford specified the functionality of every pin on that processor. Will this processor be used for something other than a Ford powertrain control system .... Certianly, but it will be best when being used as a Ford powertrain controller.

Interesting that you chose VxWorks as your example. I recently threw away this very RTOS because it was too fat, too expensive, and their support was really bad. We created a modification of the Micro C kernel. VxWorks required an incredible amount of RAM and occupied a minimum of 120Kb ROM space. Our proprietary port of Micro C required about 500 BYTES of RAM and occupies only 3.9Kb of ROM space.

I am not an expert in game consoles, but I recognize BS when I walk through it in a thread. Anyone that believes that Win2K could be reduced from however many HUNDREDS OF MEGABYTES of disk space it takes on the PC down to 150K (a feat that even decent RTOS makers such as VxWorks can not achieve), is FULL OF IT!

I agree that the nVidia chip being used on the X-Box is quite a piece of work, but it will not be enough to make up for DirectX and the Windows ported OS.
 



<< The Xbox will boast a modified Pentium III processor built by top chip-maker Intel Corp. (NasdaqNM:INTC - news). With a top speed of 733 megahertz, it is modest compared to the fastest PCs but far out-guns Sony's 300 megahertz processor. >>


Yeah, modified as in size and heat output. A mutt is a mutt. There is no way they can modify the P3 to be as good as a RISC or dedicated gaming chip.
 

Finality

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,665
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Yes there is some sort of liquid cooling inside it isn't there? I think thats for the RIMMs if I'm not mistaken.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
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dwell

&quot;Yeah, modified as in size and heat output. A mutt is a mutt. There is no way they can modify the P3 to be as good as a RISC or dedicated gaming chip.&quot;

Complete BS. What exactly do like size ops on an AI and I/O control chip have to do with console performance? Even ignoring that, the PIII 733 is better then several hundred, if not thousand &quot;RISC&quot; processors that have come and gone over the years. Motorola's PPC comes quickly to mind. Step away from the theoretical rhetoric and talk real world performance, x86 didn't become the dominant factor in the pro 3D arena because they couldn't match the what was, entirely RISC based platforms it competed against.

The entire &quot;RISC&quot; is better then &quot;CISC&quot; argument is long since over. Even most die hard Mac loyalists have given up on the cause as they know that they have lost the performance wars. Exotic Alpha CPUs against a PIII, certainly the Alpha blows it aways, there also is no chance that you would get it into a console acceptable package and even then for the operations that the PIII will be handling the Alpha would be roughly equal to a PIII in.

Of course, the &quot;main&quot; CPU in the X-Box isn't the PIII, it is the 100GFLOPs+ NV2X, and that chip obliterates Sony's offering.

OneEng

&quot;Are we getting close to the point where a general purpose processor will be used in game consoles?&quot;

Not very familiar with consoles? The CPU does next to nothing, the GPU handles nearly everything for the X-Box, including all video and audio functions along with working as the equivelant of the North and South bridge chips. The CPU will control AI and I/O functions and that is about it. You could put a PII 400MHZ chip in their and it would still be able to slaughter the PS2 in terms of power. The NV2X is what matters.

&quot;I am not an expert in game consoles, but I recognize BS when I walk through it in a thread. Anyone that believes that Win2K could be reduced from however many HUNDREDS OF MEGABYTES of disk space it takes on the PC down to 150K (a feat that even decent RTOS makers such as VxWorks can not achieve), is FULL OF IT!&quot;

You are thinking the wrong way, and putting far too much emphasis on the X-Box OS being &quot;based&quot; on Win2K. Don't think of stripping it down, think of starting from scratch and only using the absolutely essential portions. The X-Box is not a modified PC put into a game console, it has been built from the ground up. My Linux install takes over 1GB, and the PS2 is running an OS &quot;based&quot; on Linux, doesn't mean a thing.

Edit

&quot;I agree that the nVidia chip being used on the X-Box is quite a piece of work, but it will not be enough to make up for DirectX and the Windows ported OS.&quot;

OK, you are looking at this all wrong. Talk to actual game developers about DX for X-Box instead of hypothetical ramblings from hardware engineers. DX is one of, if not the, strongest thing going for the X-Box. Development houses the world over are raving about how easy X-Box is to make games for, compared to the what seems to be the across the board view that PS2 is the most difficult.
 
Oct 19, 2000
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I like the chances of the X-Box to succeed. I am one to give every console a chance, because everyone has atleast a few great games to remember it by. Yes, even the Turbographix had the Bonk! adventure games to make it good. And some of you say there is no way that the X-Box will push 150 million polys per second, how would you know?? The demos look pretty impressive. I didn't quite read through all replies, but I recall someone saying that the P3 733 couldn't beat the emotion engine, that's why Nvidia is making a graphics chip for it. The PS2 has a processor, then a seperate graphics component, and the X-Box does too.
 



<< Of course, the &quot;main&quot; CPU in the X-Box isn't the PIII, it is the 100GFLOPs+ NV2X, and that chip obliterates Sony's offering. >>


I can agree with that and I could care less about the PS2.

Still, it does not change the fact that the P3 is a dog. Intel has been pasting on to an architecture that is almost 20 years old. Every iteration of the x86 platform is just more junk supergluded onto an ancient processor architecture.

If the P3 is costing Microsoft next to nothing to put into the Xbob, it makes perfect business sense. However from a tech standpoint, it was a stupid idea to use any x86 part.

As for the Win2k kernel, it's just more of Microsoft trying to put &quot;Windows everywhere.&quot; You cannot tell me that a proper RTOS would not have been better than a stripped down version of Win2k. Just look at the PocketPC. You need 32M to run a PDA??? What a joke.
 

bhuie

Member
May 30, 2000
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<< Still, it does not change the fact that the P3 is a dog. Intel has been pasting on to an architecture that is almost 20 years old. Every iteration of the x86 platform is just more junk supergluded onto an ancient processor architecture. >>



Junk? I'll give you the fact that the x86 instruction set is old and outdated, but calling what Intel puts out &quot;junk&quot; is just plain wrong. As hip as it is to bash Intel, they have consistently put out processors that beat &quot;superior&quot; RISC offerings in price/performance. The actual architecture of a PIII hardly resembles a 15 year old CISC processor and is more accurately described as a RISC CPU with a CISC translator around it. Besides, what else are they going to use? PowerPC, MIPS, Alpha, ARM? Those other architectures may be theoretically superior if someone were to invest the time and energy into it, but no one has been able to do it yet.



<< f the P3 is costing Microsoft next to nothing to put into the Xbob, it makes perfect business sense. However from a tech standpoint, it was a stupid idea to use any x86 part. >>



It makes perfect technical sense. In the real world outside of Anandtech, people don't really care about how many polys a console pushes. They just want to play the next hyped-up game. Using Win2k/P3 allows Microsoft to leverage their existing knowledge and resources to put the X-box out faster and to lure developers in. Like it or not, time-to-market is an essential part of the gaming industry. If using a very PC-like architecture allows them to release the X-box 6 months faster and lets developers put better games out faster, then it is worth sacrificing the performance hit they take for not going with a more custom solution. Using a Win2k/Intel based architecture gives them the advantage of being to use DirectX. Having that set of industry-standard APIs gives them a big advantage in terms of luring developers to develop for the X-box.
 

OneEng

Senior member
Oct 25, 1999
585
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Ben,
Nice to hear from you again.

I guess I simply can not believe that anything MS would make would have anything but a bloated operating system. It is simply their way of thinking. I know that the Palm OS is around an order of magnitude slimmer than CE, so I can only emagine what the OS for X-Box will be like.

It is simply impossible for me to believe that a PC OS company is capable of creating a good OS for an embedded system. They are using PCish hardware which leads me to believe that you are incorrect in your assumption that they are rebuilding from scratch. I believe that they are attempting to leverage their existing technlolgy and will end up with a dog (a rather heavy one at that).

I don't work in this industry, or on this project, or for Intel (or Sony). I have no inside information. I have just heard far too many PC camp people try to make the transition to embedded and know the pitfalls they traditionally fall into. I can see MS falling into this catagory with a big bang.
 

LordAlien

Member
Sep 15, 2000
55
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X-Box will be using an Intel 733mhz processor, and for that reason it sux!!! :| They would have been using an AMD Athlon processor indeed!
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
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OneEng-

&quot;Nice to hear from you again.&quot;

Likewise Haven't seen you around much lately

&quot;It is simply their way of thinking. I know that the Palm OS is around an order of magnitude slimmer than CE, so I can only emagine what the OS for X-Box will be like.&quot;

But &quot;bloat&quot; isn't always a bad thing. If a console needs to have an OS ten times the size of the competition(a whopping 1.5MB let's say) in order to significantly aid in every aspect of game development, so be it. The X-Box has significantly more power to spare then the PS2, far more then my PC which doesn't lose much from OS overhead while gaming(still faster then Linux by a decent margin).

&quot;They are using PCish hardware which leads me to believe that you are incorrect in your assumption that they are rebuilding from scratch.&quot;

It's a complete UMA architecture with no &quot;BIOS&quot;. SGI's NT port for their older x86 workstations required some heavy modification for the same reason, they won't have a choice but to scrap a great deal of the Windows code.

As far as PCish hardware, what outside of the PIII is PC based? Nintendo is using a Moto PPC chip with an ATi graphics solution, and Sega is utilizing a long since outdated PowerVR chip that was available(though hard to find) as an add in board for PCs. With the exception of Sony, all of the players have some hardware in common with desktop iron.

The NV2X being used in the X-Box is significantly different then anything that nVidia will be making for the PC. A single controller for nearly every function of the X-Box(instead of the CPU and north/south bridge chips), it is a rather radical difference from PCs in almost every way. The Intel CPU is about the only thing that is truly PCish about the X-Box(well, the inclusion of a HD, but even Sony is planning that).

&quot;I believe that they are attempting to leverage their existing technlolgy and will end up with a dog (a rather heavy one at that).&quot;

Do I think that it will be &quot;elegant&quot;? No. But it already is proving to be the best where it counts as far as developers are concerned, actual developmet. How much performance do you think they will sacrifice to a poorly coded OS? Even at 50%, which is obscene and won't be close to what could happen, they would still have more then enough power to best Sony's offerings.

Giving up peak performance to make things easier for game developers is a lesson that Nintendo has had to learn(and has), MS already knows, and Sega made strides for. Giving up the absolute peak possible performance to gain ease for coders is very important at this point in the game.

We are dealing with a generation of consoles that will have multi GB games, an added 1MB(or 10MB for that matter) for an OS may seem large for an embedded device, but for something as increasingly complex as game consoles, adding in DVD player and web browsing capabilities, it doesn't seem like much to me. This is strictly speaking in a real world useage capacity, what downfalls do you see with them having a larger OS(technical breakdown or real world)?

&quot;I have just heard far too many PC camp people try to make the transition to embedded and know the pitfalls they traditionally fall into. I can see MS falling into this catagory with a big bang.&quot;

But consoles aren't about being the most efficient, they are all about the games. Unless they have some majory hardware problems, and they would have to be very serious to top Sony's horrendous track record, I can't see them doing to poorly. They have signed the big developers and delivered the dev kits that make developing for the PS2 look like getting teeth pulled sans novicane. They have commited in the area of one billion dollars already, game publishers look for this type of support.

Unlike the big N, Sony must rely on third party support or they can't survive, MS has the cash to throw around and land the big houses much as Sony did to push their way into the market(with some help from mistakes by Nintendo). MS is doing this generation what Sony did in the last one, flashing cash to land the big titles. PS2 can no longer claim MGS as an exclusive franchise, and even Square seems to be iffy to remain an exclusive parther(word is that they are very upset with PS2 and very pleased with GC and XB).

I see MS being at least a big player in this round, if not dominant. Nintendo has their audience, they will move ~30million GameCubes over the first few years. Sega has their loyalists, and an increasing base thanks to a solid lineup and Sony's inability to deliver(consecutive 100% sales jumps for three weeks week to week are the numbers I saw last). This leaves Sony and MS to slug it out for the mass market. Win9X certainly has had more then its' share of problems over the years, it still dominates the market in a way which very few companies can claim.
 

SSP

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
17,727
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X-Box will be using an Intel 733mhz processor, and for that reason it sux!!! They would have been using an AMD Athlon processor indeed!

You are being ignorant. MS was negotiating with AMD, but Intel jumped in and offered P3's dirt-cheap. P3's are more then enough to do the job (I suggest you ream Ben's post). I'm an AMD supporter too, but saying x-box sucks cause of P3 is idiotic.
 

OneEng

Senior member
Oct 25, 1999
585
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Ben,
There it is again ... PC mentality in embedded design.

Adding more powerful hardware to make up for a fatter slower OS and code makes the entire product more expensive. The arguement always goes &quot;delvelopment time is shorter so we make up the money there.&quot;. This isn't true. If you ship millions of units, the cost of development of the firmware is trivial.

The Sony PS2 seems to be an embedded approach to a game console while X-Box seems more like a PC ported to perform the same tasks as a game console.

Embedded units are fast (no boot time), and rugged (you can drop kick them). PC's are just not like this.

There is merrit to what you are saying. Time to market with new games is important. The question is, can Sony move games to market with their system as fast as MS can with theirs. I would argue Yes. Sony has been doing this for some time and has built an infastructure for creating these games.

I suspect MS is going to attempt to leverage their massive MS DirectX game following. This is exactly why I beileve that they are attempting only cosmetic changes to their OS (cosmetic meaning that the basic kernel will still operate on the same basis as the PC).

As for the hardware, by using a PIII, you necessarily have very &quot;PCish&quot; architecture. You can't really use a PC processor and not have a PC mentality.

I will grant the X-Box the advantage of the NV2X. This can not help but be a good thing for the product.

I simply think that attempting to move into embedded markets will show MS the limitations of its expertice. MS tried to develope a computer system for a US Navy ship based on NT. The system locked up and left the vessel stranded. It had to be towed into port in disgrace. MS was incidentally asked not to bother the USN with further talk of comercial operating systems in mission critical roles.

MS tried to convince automotive manufacturers to use a variant of CE for their vehicle controllers. This was dismissed when studies were performed that showed the very high number of failures uncovered in the FMEA (Failure Mode Effect Analysis) for CE.

Again, this is just my speculation, but from what I have seen in the past, PC methodology does not work well in embedded markets.

Then again, this could well be the end of the true game console. The durability ,reliability, compatibility, and lower cost may take a back seat to the web browser and storage capabilities added in X-Box. Leveraging the PC capabilities may well make the next generation of consoles not so unlike a PC. This means we will be upgrading and having compatibility issues in consoles just like we do on PC's. Blue Screens of Death, application errors, DLL incompatibility, etc, will become normal on consoles. This is sad.
 

A5

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2000
4,902
5
81
When do you guys think XBox will actually ship? I mean, Nvidia will probably not finish the NV2A until after NV20 or even NV25 comes out. Even then they will have to make at least 1 million of them for launch.

Which leaves one question. Who is gonna manufacture the XBox? Nvidia can't. M$ probably couldn't without a new factory, especially since all they make now for hardware is mice, keyboards, etc. Intel has to put out their own chips, and we know how THAT goes. In short, they have to find someone to build the thing before anyone can buy it
 

ForeverSilky

Banned
Apr 6, 2000
1,837
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<< Well, couldn't that also be due to the n64 using cartridges? far harder to copy Many ppl with the psx just rent to own if you know what i mean >>


If you find the type of screwdriver needed to take out the screws in the n64 cartridges, I think you can switch the chips of one game and put it into a different cartridge.



<< The only reason why it might fail is because a lot of people won't know about it and a lot of gamers out there are to stupid to realize that there are other consoles then the PS2. >>


Microsoft is spending a lot of money to make sure people know about it.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
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OneEng-

&quot;There it is again ... PC mentality in embedded design.&quot;

Why should it be thought of as an embedded design? Perhaps the time has past having consoles living under this terminology.

&quot;Adding more powerful hardware to make up for a fatter slower OS and code makes the entire product more expensive. The arguement always goes &quot;delvelopment time is shorter so we make up the money there.&quot;. This isn't true. If you ship millions of units, the cost of development of the firmware is trivial.&quot;

What good would dropping 0.01% overhead do when talking about a 100GFLOPs+ machine? We are discussing a machine with an order of magnitude more power then Cray supercomputers from not too long ago.

You are looking at this from a hardware engineer point of view, I am looking at is from a developers point of view. After the first piece of hardware ships, it is done. Developers need to deal with the machine for many years after that, not hardware engineers.

&quot;Embedded units are fast (no boot time), and rugged (you can drop kick them). PC's are just not like this.&quot;

There isn't any &quot;boot time&quot; on the X-Box, there was a significant load time for the original PSX though. Rugged? I have three dead PSXs here that disagree with that statement strongly(I know one person that has eight), not to mention the tens of thousands of problems users have already reported with the PS2's hardware after the Japanese launch(not that many problems, but that many users). We are talking about PS2 vs X-Box, if it were Nintendo then durability could be an issue, Sony has already lowered the bar significantly in this area.

&quot;I suspect MS is going to attempt to leverage their massive MS DirectX game following. This is exactly why I beileve that they are attempting only cosmetic changes to their OS (cosmetic meaning that the basic kernel will still operate on the same basis as the PC).&quot;

Why do you think this? Their DX game following isn't an issue, the PC gaming market is trivial at best compared to consoles. The point of DX that makes it so strong is the SDKs. It's like running the Win9X compared to command line Linux, one is just so much easier and when speaking of getting something done, the Win9X is going to be faster the overwhelming majority of the time for people who are familiar with it and have never used a Linux based OS(which IS the type of situation with dev kits).

&quot;As for the hardware, by using a PIII, you necessarily have very &quot;PCish&quot; architecture. You can't really use a PC processor and not have a PC mentality.&quot;

So your saying the GameCube is also PCish? Just because the CPU is based on a design from PCs doesn't mean anything. There are no IRQs, there is no BIOS, there is no boot up, it is nothing like a PC.

&quot;I simply think that attempting to move into embedded markets will show MS the limitations of its expertice.&quot;

I think your right. The single most important thing in the console wars is developer relations. MS knows this better then anyone. You are focusing too much on design choices for the platform, and not looking at how much easier it makes things for developers.

&quot;Time to market with new games is important. The question is, can Sony move games to market with their system as fast as MS can with theirs. I would argue Yes. Sony has been doing this for some time and has built an infastructure for creating these games.&quot;

No, they haven't. In fact, Sony has done almost nothing at all to prove that they can ship software on time. Their dev kits are constantly late, they have very little in the way of support outside of tier one development houses for the PS2, and even then the support is getting extremely negative feedback. One person commented that what took them months to get up and running on a PS2 they had up in an afternoon using X-Box dev kits. That isn't a factor to be underestimated. Why not port a PS2 title over to X-Box if it can be done very easily with next to no added dev costs(in comparison). Conversly, why sink massive amounts of time and effort to port a X-Box title to the PS2?

&quot;This means we will be upgrading and having compatibility issues in consoles just like we do on PC's. Blue Screens of Death, application errors, DLL incompatibility, etc, will become normal on consoles.&quot;

Much misunderstanding about what the HD of the XB will be used for. First, it doesn't install games in the sense that a PC does. It spools the DVD info onto the HD for reduced access times. When you plop in the game it loads the data that is needed first into system RAM and then keeps loading the game data onto the HD. It is built to be used as one giant @ss swap file instead of forcing the &quot;level&quot; mentality that consoles have been restricted by. You won't need to stop the game to load the next track, or next board, it has already been loaded off of the DVD onto the HD. This makes lots of sense, and explains the reason for the size of the drive(fits just about one entire DD DVD side).

DLL incompatibility? Win2K won't allow an overwrite anyway, X-Box certainly won't. Application errors? On locked hardware for a console? That would assume that MS won't have the standards set in place that every consol maker has, extensive testing to prove the game is bug free. BSODs? What do they look like in Win2K? Any suggestions on how to create a situation to see one in person? And even then you are assuming that a locked hardware configuration is going to suffer from the same problems as an extremely open one.

In terms of compatibility &quot;issues&quot;, MS is hands down the best in the business. No other OS can come close to claiming that they work with nearly as much. Not Linux, not Irix, not Be, no BSD or Unix build, and not the MacOS. Many of the problems with the MS OSs, and particularly Win9X is because of the methods employed to maintain this compatibility. X-Box has none of these concerns.

Do you think that the people that work at MS are stupid? For hardware this seems to be almost entirely designed by nVidia, I trust them to deliver. For software all they need supply is a functional OS and great development tools, the latter they have already done, the former I think they can pull off. Sony, Nintendo and Sega all started out new in this arena at one point in time, and all of them managed to pull it off being complete rookies. MS seems far too serious to not make this work. They may give up overhead for the OS, but they have power to spare.

BTW- The divide by zero Navy error, that's an old one
 

Sephiroth_IX

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
5,933
0
0
Yes, finally we have someone on my side Good thoughts ben.


<< Much misunderstanding about what the HD of the XB will be used for. First, it doesn't install games in the sense that a PC does. It spools the DVD info onto the HD for reduced access times. When you plop in the game it loads the data that is needed first into system RAM and then keeps loading the game data onto the HD. It is built to be used as one giant @ss swap file instead of forcing the &quot;level&quot; mentality that consoles have been restricted by. You won't need to stop the game to load the next track, or next board, it has already been loaded off of the DVD onto the HD. This makes lots of sense, and explains the reason for the size of the drive(fits just about one entire DD DVD side).

DLL incompatibility? Win2K won't allow an overwrite anyway, X-Box certainly won't. Application errors? On locked hardware for a console? That would assume that MS won't have the standards set in place that every consol maker has, extensive testing to prove the game is bug free. BSODs? What do they look like in Win2K? Any suggestions on how to create a situation to see one in person? And even then you are assuming that a locked hardware configuration is going to suffer from the same problems as an extremely open one.

In terms of compatibility &quot;issues&quot;, MS is hands down the best in the business. No other OS can come close to claiming that they work with nearly as much. Not Linux, not Irix, not Be, no BSD or Unix build, and not the MacOS. Many of the problems with the MS OSs, and particularly Win9X is because of the methods employed to maintain this compatibility. X-Box has none of these concerns.

Do you think that the people that work at MS are stupid? For hardware this seems to be almost entirely designed by nVidia, I trust them to deliver. For software all they need supply is a functional OS and great development tools, the latter they have already done, the former I think they can pull off. Sony, Nintendo and Sega all started out new in this arena at one point in time, and all of them managed to pull it off being complete rookies. MS seems far too serious to not make this work. They may give up overhead for the OS, but they have power to spare.
>>

This, right here, tells exactly what the Xbox is all about. It is not a computer, it is a console, and it will be powerful as all hell. It has more features than any other, and has incredible game support, and a powerful yet easy to use API to develop on.

This is something I am interested on seeing Ben's thoughts though - We all know the Xbox is going to have an incredible graphics chip, but what about bandwidth. I believe it is going to have about 6gbps of bandwidth. Do you think this is enough? What about Sony's solution: 4mb of local video memory and streaming in other textures from main memory?

Personally, i think Sony's solution will not be nearly as good as it needs to be, because the textures will be too slow (think of an embedded video card on a all in one motherboard -- using system memory the card is a joke in comparison to an add in card of nearly any power). My main Xbox worries are the controller (although i doubt they will screw it up, as they made a great DC controller (flame bait, my oversized hands love it) and the video bandwidth...
 

LordAlien

Member
Sep 15, 2000
55
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SSP I know that's an ingorant way of thinking but I hate Wintel so I have all the rights to say what I feel and nobody, I repeat NOBODY, should dare to tell me such the things you said. I hope you will apologize.
 

A5

Diamond Member
Jun 9, 2000
4,902
5
81


<< as they made a great DC controller >>


Hmm, I could have sworn that Sega made the DC controller.



<< I believe it is going to have about 6gbps of bandwidth. Do you think this is enough? >>


No. The GF2 by itself had about 5.3/gbps didnt it? So now we get a chip that is even more powerful, and it has to share it's bandwidth with a CPU, sound chip, and ethernet controller(hard drive also?). Should be interesting how UMA effects the XBox when more finalized kits are availible.

Personally, my favorite console this round is GameCube. Hopefully Nintendo will show a lot of good stuff at E3.
 

ForeverSilky

Banned
Apr 6, 2000
1,837
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<< You are being ignorant. MS was negotiating with AMD, but Intel jumped in and offered P3's dirt-cheap. P3's are more then enough to do the job (I suggest you ream Ben's post). I'm an AMD supporter too, but saying x-box sucks cause of P3 is idiotic. >>


Sounds good to me lord alien.
 
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