x800 xl

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Dude you are the one who's "flat out lieing".

Anyone who can read can see the X800XL loses a lot more benches than it wins- at LOTS of games- not just Doom3. :roll:

The truth

is out there

Originally posted by: Anand Lal Shimpi
As we mentioned earlier in the review, ignoring Doom 3, the X800 XL is quite competitive with the 6800GT

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2299&p=8

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Rollo
Dude you are the one who's "flat out lieing".

Anyone who can read can see the X800XL loses a lot more benches than it wins- at LOTS of games- not just Doom3. :roll:

The truth

is out there

Originally posted by: Anand Lal Shimpi
As we mentioned earlier in the review, ignoring Doom 3, the X800 XL is quite competitive with the 6800GT

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2299&p=8

The problem with your response Creig, is that I wasn't responding to a statement that the X800Xl is not competitive with the 6800GT, I was responding to:

You really shouldn't just flat out lie like this. The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3

.

There's a BIG difference that is apparently unclear to you. Let me help:

By saying "The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3" the OP (Pr0d1gy) made an assertion that Doom3 is the only game where a 6800GT will score higher on benchmarks than a X800XL. To refute this, I provide links to two reviews on a reputable site that show the 6800GT winning benchmarks at MANY games, in direct contradiction to what Pr0d1gy had said.

It was actually really easy to refute his statement, because I doubt you can find a review on the web where 6800GTs aren't beating X800XLs at most benchmarks by a little bit.

Your link to Anand saying an X800XL is competitive is correct though, just out of place as a response to my post. If you need further clarification, feel free to PM me and we can go into the difference between "wins every game except one" and "competitive" at greater length. I'd be happy to help!

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: dfloyd
Actually Rollo the video runs perfectly smooth with my X800XL card. May I ask what system you were running with that you had the slight hiccups?

Oh and thanks for advice on having friends come over and help me out, many do come over and play around with my system, but most ask me for advice after doing so. I am pretty dilligent about tweaking and cleaning up my system.

Also here are the facts:

An A64 3200+, 1GB Corsair XMS Xtreme CLS 2 Memory, BFG 6800OC ran the video poorly

An A64 3200+, 1GB Geil 2.5 CLS 2.5 Memory, X800XL runs the video flawlessly

So to the point of this thread I still suggest the X800XL over the 6800 GT. Not just for video, for gaming as well. As I have played on a 6800 GT and it did not feel as smooth as my X800XL even if the benchmarks in some games were faster. (I Played Far Cry and Riddick Quite a Bit and my Radeon X800XL felt much smoother)

folowing this.. i don't understand what you are complaining about..

that your 800xl would run hd videos better than your 6800nu because "nv40 doesn't have h/w acceleration" is flawed from the beginning - the 800xl is not accelerating it either. am i somehow misinterpreting this?

while i don't have a 6800nu, i have no issues with videos on my 6800gt, or for that matter didn't have any with my x800 either. in fact, the main differences i've seen is from HDR lighting (nv has it, ati doesn't) although i'm not sure having hdr at the cost of aa is a good tradeoff.

did nv claim wmv accleration? yes. did it work on the original nv40? no. but the fact is, currently nothing out there ati or nv supports it (well, there is support, but it's not working at this time). so what's the big deal? and what does that have to do with saying the video's are smooth on your ati but not on your nv? since neither card currently accelerates the videos in hardware, it would seem logical to conclude h/w acceleration has nothing to do with this..

that it works fine on other ppl's systems but horridly on yours (if that's truly the case) would indicate the problem to be your system, not the card...

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Rollo
Dude you are the one who's "flat out lieing".

Anyone who can read can see the X800XL loses a lot more benches than it wins- at LOTS of games- not just Doom3. :roll:

The truth

is out there

Originally posted by: Anand Lal Shimpi
As we mentioned earlier in the review, ignoring Doom 3, the X800 XL is quite competitive with the 6800GT

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2299&p=8

The problem with your response Creig, is that I wasn't responding to a statement that the X800Xl is not competitive with the 6800GT, I was responding to:

You really shouldn't just flat out lie like this. The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3

.

There's a BIG difference that is apparently unclear to you. Let me help:

By saying "The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3" the OP (Pr0d1gy) made an assertion that Doom3 is the only game where a 6800GT will score higher on benchmarks than a X800XL. To refute this, I provide links to two reviews on a reputable site that show the 6800GT winning benchmarks at MANY games, in direct contradiction to what Pr0d1gy had said.

It was actually really easy to refute his statement, because I doubt you can find a review on the web where 6800GTs aren't beating X800XLs at most benchmarks by a little bit.

Your link to Anand saying an X800XL is competitive is correct though, just out of place as a response to my post. If you need further clarification, feel free to PM me and we can go into the difference between "wins every game except one" and "competitive" at greater length. I'd be happy to help!

The problem with YOUR response Rollo, is that I wasn't responding to a statement that the X800Xl is not competitive with the 6800GT either. I was responding to:

Anyone who can read can see the X800XL loses a lot more benches than it wins- at LOTS of games

The X800XL and 6800GT each take the top spot in approximately 50% of the benches/resolutions. Each card's performance is usually within a few percent of the other's.

If you need further clarification, feel free to PM me and we can go into the difference between "loses a lot more benches than it wins" and "competitive" at greater length. I would also be happy to help.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Creig
The X800XL and 6800GT each take the top spot in approximately 50% of the benches/resolutions. Each card's performance is usually within a few percent of the other's.

If you need further clarification, feel free to PM me and we can go into the difference between "loses a lot more benches than it wins" and "competitive" at greater length. I would also be happy to help.

the problem is that's not what you said. what you said was, "The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3." which is a completely false statement.

Not sure where you are going, as your latest reply even contradicts your original statement. Perhaps you could clarify for us?

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: Creig
The X800XL and 6800GT each take the top spot in approximately 50% of the benches/resolutions. Each card's performance is usually within a few percent of the other's.

If you need further clarification, feel free to PM me and we can go into the difference between "loses a lot more benches than it wins" and "competitive" at greater length. I would also be happy to help.

the problem is that's not what you said. what you said was, "The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3." which is a completely false statement.

Not sure where you are going, as your latest reply even contradicts your original statement. Perhaps you could clarify for us?

I think you have me confused with Pr0d1gy. I've never claimed anything other than the 6800GT and X800XL are neck and neck with each other.

 

[CaiNaM]

ahhh.. my bad then (long thread, heh..)

i do agree they're pretty comparable, and frankly, while i like my GT, the XL is prolly the best pcie value out there at this time.

 

[johnnq]

maybe he meant "the only game where the 6800gt CLEARLY beats the xl is doom 3"

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: johnnq
maybe he meant "the only game where the 6800gt CLEARLY beats the xl is doom 3"

Try Riddick?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Creig

The problem with YOUR response Rollo, is that I wasn't responding to a statement that the X800Xl is not competitive with the 6800GT either. I was responding to:

Anyone who can read can see the X800XL loses a lot more benches than it wins- at LOTS of games

The X800XL and 6800GT each take the top spot in approximately 50% of the benches/resolutions. Each card's performance is usually within a few percent of the other's.

LOL- While you're technically "correct" in your quibbling, I'd note:
A. The X800XL does indeed win 17/40 of those benchmarks;however, 4 of those are the universally hated/unplayed Wallet Raider: Angel of Sloppy Code. Take those 4 out of the mix as it's doubtful anyone will ever play Wallet Raider, and the X800XL falls to 36% wins. (13/36)

B. The 6800GT sweeps the benches in Pacific Fighters, Doom 3, Riddick, Halo. The X800XL sweeps Wallet Raider and HL2. Woot.

C. The 6800GT gives you HDR, soft shadows, and sli. The X800XL gives you.......<crickets chirping>

 

[Ronin]

My 512MB XL will pwn your 6xxx!



Just got it today, along with an Xpress 200 mobo.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ronin
My 512MB XL will pwn your 6xxx!



Just got it today, along with an Xpress 200 mobo.

No! You have a 512MB X800XL?!?!??!


<cowers before Ronin's massive memory monolith>

 

[johnnq]

no the x800 xl may not give as much as the 6800 gt, but the gt also TAKES AWAY $100 more than the xl.

 

[fstime]

Rollo, just shutup.

You are so annoying.

Take a break.

Do you have anything better to do with your self then argue with people about SLI,Nvidia,ATI,Softshadows,SM3, the list goes on and on.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
Rollo, just shutup.

You are so annoying.

Take a break.

Do you have anything better to do with your self then argue with people about SLI,Nvidia,ATI,Softshadows,SM3, the list goes on and on.

Oh noes! Lil' Bouzouki is mad at me!

LOL I like it that I obviously anger you Bouzouki. You flame me all the time, I just laugh!

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Ronin
My 512MB XL will pwn your 6xxx!



Just got it today, along with an Xpress 200 mobo.

No! You have a 512MB X800XL?!?!??!


<cowers before Ronin's massive memory monolith>

My benchmarks will pwnz0r you!

I'll throw it in a box and at least see how it runs. Think I'll build a box around that card and the Xpress 200 mobo, and see what I come up with.

 

[dfloyd]

"folowing this.. i don't understand what you are complaining about..

No CaiNaM, I am not complaining friend. I was just pointing out that my X800XL based system was running the video much smoother than my 6800NU. I am not the only one pointing out that the 6800 was running the video poorly. In fact there is another in this post claiming that exact thing.

There are many reasons this could be happening, but both system are configured the same. Both had Athlon 64 3200+ processors. Both had one gigabyte of ram. In fact the 6800 based system had even faster ram.

Again, I was not complaining. I was just pointing out that with pretty much equal systems, that only had different video cards, the system with the X800XL was running faster on that video.

"that it works fine on other ppl's systems but horridly on yours (if that's truly the case) would indicate the problem to be your system, not the card... "

And to that statment, I have seen at least as many people, if not more, claim that the video ran slowly on their system than I did of those who claimed it ran perfectly. So if its my system then please explain how my Ati system, configured the same way, the video runs perfectly?

Now with all that said if you had read my post above then you would see that I am starting to believe there is a different culprit. It is looking like something to do with the Nforce drivers more so than the video card. I would be very curious if those who are having problems all have a Nforce based board, if so what drivers are they using?

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Actually, Far Cry's HDR works fine with the SM2 path.

Wha--since when? Doesn't it use FP blending?

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: dfloyd
"folowing this.. i don't understand what you are complaining about..

No CaiNaM, I am not complaining friend. I was just pointing out that my X800XL based system was running the video much smoother than my 6800NU. I am not the only one pointing out that the 6800 was running the video poorly. In fact there is another in this post claiming that exact thing.

np, just seemed to me it was kind of going around in circles...

There are many reasons this could be happening, but both system are configured the same. Both had Athlon 64 3200+ processors. Both had one gigabyte of ram. In fact the 6800 based system had even faster ram.

Again, I was not complaining. I was just pointing out that with pretty much equal systems, that only had different video cards, the system with the X800XL was running faster on that video.[/w]

"that it works fine on other ppl's systems but horridly on yours (if that's truly the case) would indicate the problem to be your system, not the card... "

And to that statment, I have seen at least as many people, if not more, claim that the video ran slowly on their system than I did of those who claimed it ran perfectly. So if its my system then please explain how my Ati system, configured the same way, the video runs perfectly?

Now with all that said if you had read my post above then you would see that I am starting to believe there is a different culprit. It is looking like something to do with the Nforce drivers more so than the video card. I would be very curious if those who are having problems all have a Nforce based board, if so what drivers are they using?

well you know.. i stated previously i had compared both (tho this was some time ago, when all the initial complaints cropped up regarding the non-functioning purevideo), and i had no issues whatsoever with either card.

after following this thread for a bit, i decided to re-run the videos, and frankly it runs like ass on my GT, moreso if i'm running fraps (was trying to see if it would record avg/hi/lo fps fro wmplayer, which it does).. this definately didn't happen before, which leads me to wonder what changed in my system that is causing this.. if i get time tonight i will spend some time to try and figure out what is going on.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Lowest priced X800XL on Pricewatch...$269.

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy

Originally posted by: baddog121390
for 320 i would get a 6800gt instead. a bit more performance + SM3.0

You really shouldn't just flat out lie like this. The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3. Pixel shader 3.0 (or Sm3 or whatever) is overrated.

Unless you plan on going SLi or playing nothing but Doom3, get an x800xl.

Dude you are the one who's "flat out lieing".

Anyone who can read can see the X800XL loses a lot more benches than it wins- at LOTS of games- not just Doom3. :roll:

The truth

is out there

OMG, you turn around & try to refute what I say with FiringSquad tests...lmfao
And one of them is an SLi test too!!!! HAH There's a fair assesment, $750 setup vs a $300 setup.

Anyways, you may want to check out Tom's Hardware Guide's VGA charts for PCI-Express if you aren't into following X-Files quotes.

Half-Life 2 fps test at 1600x1200 with 4x AA & 8x AF

Unreal Tournament 2004, same specs, 6800gt gets a whopping 1 fps more


And yes it wins in Doom 3 by 7fps...as I said.


Lowest priced 6800gt on Pricewatch...$364.


Monarch has a Connect3d X800XL for $269 on that very same website...


As I said before it is a no brainer if you aren't playing Doom3 religiously or going for an SLi setup...and even if you are ATi will probably have their version of SLi out before you buy another card.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
And yes it wins in Doom 3 by 7fps...as I said.

very selective, or perhaps you simply haven't grasped the concept of low resolution and cpu bottleneck...

the difference in the benchmarks you quoted is considerably more if you run look at 1280 (scroll down), and even more if you look at at's comparison @ 1600, where the xl can't break 30fps....

that being said, doom3 is really the only weakpoint of the XL (and ati overall), and is quite competitive in most other games. at it's pricepoint it's a great card and if doom3/quake4, etc. is not that important, quite easy to recommend.

i do think your comment on ati's amr is a good point, however we just don't have enough info at this time.. a secondary consideration is how these sm2b cards will compare/perform vs sm3 cards (not only nv's, but r520s as well) in upcoming u3 tech based games, which seems to be less than a year away (this year has been mentioned, but i still find that hard to believe).

 

[dfloyd]

"well you know.. i stated previously i had compared both (tho this was some time ago, when all the initial complaints cropped up regarding the non-functioning purevideo), and i had no issues whatsoever with either card.

after following this thread for a bit, i decided to re-run the videos, and frankly it runs like ass on my GT, moreso if i'm running fraps (was trying to see if it would record avg/hi/lo fps fro wmplayer, which it does).. this definately didn't happen before, which leads me to wonder what changed in my system that is causing this.. if i get time tonight i will spend some time to try and figure out what is going on."

Strange isnt it.... You must have bad luck like my friend does. Whenever he says what if something bad could happen it almost always does. Unless he knocks on wood of course. Maybe you have his kind of luck?

Still not sure whats causing it but maybe if we can get enough of us to play with it and figure it out why its running so slow.

Please keep us filled in on what you find and thanks Cainam.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
that being said, doom3 is really the only weakpoint of the XL (and ati overall), and is quite competitive in most other games. at it's pricepoint it's a great card and if doom3/quake4, etc. is not that important, quite easy to recommend.

Actually- there are two more titles X800XLs have a big problem with:
Riddick- much slower
SC:CT- SM1.1 vs SM3

As you note, bad at Doom 3= bad at Prey, Quake4, Wolfenstein2, others- so being bad at the Doom 3 engine is a very big deal if you like first person shooter games and plan on keeping the card a year.

 

[Creig]

Yes, because the Doom III engine is the ONLY FPS engine available. I guess Unreal Tournament, Far Cry and Half Life 2 don't count.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Pr0d1gy
OMG, you turn around & try to refute what I say with FiringSquad tests...lmfao
And one of them is an SLi test too!!!! HAH There's a fair assesment, $750 setup vs a $300 setup.

You obviously have trouble reading the provided benches, let me help:
The SLI test had 6800GT and X800XL benchmarks in it as well, I used those?

You said

The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3.

.
I posted benchmarks from FS, that I've replicated on my own system BTW, that show the X800XL only totally won 2/10 games.

Anyways, you may want to check out Tom's Hardware Guide's VGA charts for PCI-Express if you aren't into following X-Files quotes.

Sure. Let's look at Toms charts.
You said

The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3.

.

UT2004
The 6800GT wins at 10X7, 12X10, 16X12 4X8X. Already what you said is proven to be a lie. :roll:

Riddick
The 6800GT wins every benchmark on the page, usually by a lot. Again, proving what you said is a lie

Pacific Fighters
The 6800GT wins every benchmark on the page. Again, proving what you said is a lie

The Sims
The 6800GT wins the higher detail (AA?) setting of The Sims, yet again, proving you wrong

Doom3
The 6800GT wins every benchmark on the page, usually by a lot. (but not disproving what you said this time as you admit this)

NOW:

You said

The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3.

.

The review you linked to shows the X800XL getting beat at 5/6 games!

Errr, can someone give me a "pwned" for this? I don't know if I've ever seen a clearer case of it?

Monarch has a Connect3d X800XL for $269 on that very same website...

Who cares you didn't say "X800XLs are cheapest". You said

The only game a 6800gt beats the x800xl on is Doom3.

.

As I said before it is a no brainer if you aren't playing Doom3 religiously

What about Doom3? Well, Carmacks engines (e.g. Doom3) are always either the most licensed or among the most licensed for first person shooter games. Even Half Life was based on the Quake 1 engine. What's upcoming we know of based on Doom3? Prey (loved by all at E3) Quake 4(err, I think a few people will buy this) Wolfenstein2 (sequel to a very popular shooter) and ?. So buying a cheap card that doesn't play Doom3 very well doesn't make much sense if you're planning on playing these games, others does it?

What about Valves Source engine? The 6800GT fares a whole lot better at that against X800XLs than X800XLs do at Doom3, don't they?

Starting to get the point about "getting what you pay for"? X800XLs are cheap because no one in their right mind would buy them if they were the same price.

<last nail in the coffin of your "argument">