x800 xl

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: CaiNaM
that being said, doom3 is really the only weakpoint of the XL (and ati overall), and is quite competitive in most other games. at it's pricepoint it's a great card and if doom3/quake4, etc. is not that important, quite easy to recommend.

Actually- there are two more titles X800XLs have a big problem with:
Riddick- much slower
SC:CT- SM1.1 vs SM3

As you note, bad at Doom 3= bad at Prey, Quake4, Wolfenstein2, others- so being bad at the Doom 3 engine is a very big deal if you like first person shooter games and plan on keeping the card a year.

ati has made significant strides with d3, and while at 1600 4aa/8af the xl is still lacking, the xt is only 5fps behind ultra (too lazy to link, it's in tom's new summer roundup).

as far as sc:ct the differences, while there, are minor at best. this may all change however with u3 based games, but until then, it's all specualation, and bottom line is that the feature set in sm3 is not yet fully exploited in current games (dx9b only makes some of the sm3 features nv40 is capable of avail).

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Creig
Yes, because the Doom III engine is the ONLY FPS engine available. I guess Unreal Tournament, Far Cry and Half Life 2 don't count.

Excellent. Let's discuss it.

No, the Doom3 engine isn't the only fps engine available. It is; however, one of the more important ones because we already know of at least 3 big games that will be based on it, and there will likely be more.

Unreal Tournament? That engine is from 2003, so I doubt we have a lot of upcoming games based on it. (although there is the pretty much ill-received Pariah- coming soon to a bargain bin near you) In any case, the 6800GT is faster at this engine, so no loss there.

FarCry? This one is more interesting. I personally don't know what, if any, big games in development are using this engine. (which is not to say there are not any)
So what does the X800XL owner get at Far Cry the 6800GT owner doesn't? Nothing? Looks like they're tied to me
Of course we haven't even mentioned the HDR IQ difference.

Half Life 2? Yep. Here's where the X800XL shines and is the better choice. The problem is, HL2 is mostly CPU not GPU limited, so there's nothing the X800XL can do the 6800GT can't do easily.
HL2 truth
6800GT= 76-108fps averages across demos. X800XL= 80-121fps average across demos. They're both high enough to easily play this game at 16X12 4X8X.


So you have the X800XL being the better card on those four engines at 1/4, Half Life2. How does that mean it's a better buy again?

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Rollo
So you have the X800XL being the better card on those four engines at 1/4, Half Life2. How does that mean it's a better buy again?

Because it can play ALL of them at a decent resolution with good framerates all for $100 cheaper than a 6800GT (PCI-E). For AGP, at current pricing, I'd suggest the 6800GT is a better deal.

Originally posted by: Rollo
Starting to get the point about "getting what you pay for"? X800XLs are cheap because no one in their right mind would buy them if they were the same price.

And there you've hit the nail on the head. "if they were the same price" But they're not, are they?

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: dfloyd
Strange isnt it.... You must have bad luck like my friend does. Whenever he says what if something bad could happen it almost always does. Unless he knocks on wood of course. Maybe you have his kind of luck?

Still not sure whats causing it but maybe if we can get enough of us to play with it and figure it out why its running so slow.

Please keep us filled in on what you find and thanks Cainam.

well, after much time messing with bios, fastwrite, etc., it appears the issue was a bad install (or bad uninstall? perhaps something didn't get cleaned) of an updated video driver. after uninstalling, then reinstalling, everything is back up to normal. no hitches or pauses running the 'step into liquid' video; all is smooth again.

cpu usage avgs about 85%, and no dropped frames. weird i didn't notice and perf degredation in other software.. oh well, all is okay once again

 

[xxxAgentxxx]

Back to the OP... I personally would run with the x800XL unless you plan to utilize SLI in the near future. It's roughly identical to 6800GT, minus sm3.0 and $100.

I ran that 1080i vid, p43.2e / 9800 pro, i'd have to say roughly 60fps, without a single stutter from start to finish. After seeing the 10fps the NU pulled, I expected it to look like crap... A nice surprise (for a change)

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: xxxAgentxxx
Back to the OP... I personally would run with the x800XL unless you plan to utilize SLI in the near future. It's roughly identical to 6800GT, minus sm3.0 and $100.

I ran that 1080i vid, p43.2e / 9800 pro, i'd have to say roughly 60fps, without a single stutter from start to finish. After seeing the 10fps the NU pulled, I expected it to look like crap... A nice surprise (for a change)

So what did you use to measure this "60fps" and "10fps"? I have a 6800NU on my 5 year olds computer and would like to check.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Rollo


LOL- While you're technically "correct" in your quibbling, I'd note:
A. The X800XL does indeed win 17/40 of those benchmarks;however, 4 of those are the universally hated/unplayed Wallet Raider: Angel of Sloppy Code. Take those 4 out of the mix as it's doubtful anyone will ever play Wallet Raider, and the X800XL falls to 36% wins. (13/36)

B. The 6800GT sweeps the benches in Pacific Fighters, Doom 3, Riddick, Halo. The X800XL sweeps Wallet Raider and HL2. Woot.

C. The 6800GT gives you HDR, soft shadows, and sli. The X800XL gives you.......<crickets chirping>

Can we ll take out games of the benchmarks that we deem not worthy? You call AoD sloppy code, Halo is looked at in the same way, lets take it out too. Pacific Fighters doesnt have many players, lets take it out too! The fact is, aside from a few games, the cards are usually within 5fps of each other.

Yes, the 6800GT gives you HDR in Facry, and soft shadows in Riddick, its just too bad it doesnt give them to you at a playable framerate. Going from 70 frames to 17 in Riddick, isnt what I call playable.

You act as if the XL doesnt give you anything. The most obvious thing it gives you is, performance that is virtually the same as a 6800GT, for a much lower price, in PCI-E.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: Rollo


LOL- While you're technically "correct" in your quibbling, I'd note:
A. The X800XL does indeed win 17/40 of those benchmarks;however, 4 of those are the universally hated/unplayed Wallet Raider: Angel of Sloppy Code. Take those 4 out of the mix as it's doubtful anyone will ever play Wallet Raider, and the X800XL falls to 36% wins. (13/36)

B. The 6800GT sweeps the benches in Pacific Fighters, Doom 3, Riddick, Halo. The X800XL sweeps Wallet Raider and HL2. Woot.

C. The 6800GT gives you HDR, soft shadows, and sli. The X800XL gives you.......<crickets chirping>

Can we ll take out games of the benchmarks that we deem not worthy? You call AoD sloppy code, Halo is looked at in the same way, lets take it out too.

The difference is that many people play and love Halo, everyone hates TRAOD?

Pacific Fighters doesnt have many players, lets take it out too! The fact is, aside from a few games, the cards are usually within 5fps of each other.

I personally don't have any idea how many play Pacific Fighters, not my ganre.

Yes, the 6800GT gives you HDR in Facry, and soft shadows in Riddick, its just too bad it doesnt give them to you at a playable framerate. Going from 70 frames to 17 in Riddick, isnt what I call playable.

While it's true softshadows is rough on a single card, I play it perfectly fine on two and the 6800GT owner has that option available. AMR on Riddick isn't likely to be as good, as in Riddick without soft shadows ATI cards are 33% slower. Lots of people play HDR on Far Cry with one 6800GT.

You act as if the XL doesnt give you anything. The most obvious thing it gives you is, performance that is virtually the same as a 6800GT, for a much lower price, in PCI-E.

It gives you about the same performance on DX games.

It gives you much less performance on OpenGL games (Doom3, Riddick, etc). It gives you no HDR. At present it gives you no multicard upgrade path. When it does, it still will not give you SM3. No SM3? SC:CT theory in SM1.1. It gives you no available option to play Riddick with soft shadows.

The developers giveth, ATI taketh away.......

 

[Ackmed]

You are so blind, its not even worth talking to you about anymore.

So people can see the truth about Riddick and the feature Rollo always likes to make out to be as nothing but good, here are some benches; http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/chronicles_of_riddick_performance/page6.asp

Even if SLI were to give you 2x the performance (which it doesnt) it will wouldnt be good enough to enjoy the game to me. And Rollo always says that 1600x1200 is his minimum res.. haha. Not with that game. Less than 25 fps in SLI, with no AA/AF. Wow, sign me up!

 

[Creig]

In true Rollo style I offer the following statement:


Oooohhhhh..... Soft shadows (*smack*)(*smack*)(*smack*)

 

[nRollo]

Creig and Ackmed-
Are you guys related?

 

[fstime]

I love how when Rollo has nothing else to say, he says some smart little comment like above.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
I love how when Rollo has nothing else to say, he says some smart little comment like above.

I'm glad you're happy with this Bouzouki. You know how I'm always concerned with your opinion. Usually when I post, I try to think first,"WWBD?"*.





*What Would Bouzouki Do?

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You are so blind, its not even worth talking to you about anymore.

So people can see the truth about Riddick and the feature Rollo always likes to make out to be as nothing but good, here are some benches; http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/chronicles_of_riddick_performance/page6.asp

Even if SLI were to give you 2x the performance (which it doesnt) it will wouldnt be good enough to enjoy the game to me. And Rollo always says that 1600x1200 is his minimum res.. haha. Not with that game. Less than 25 fps in SLI, with no AA/AF. Wow, sign me up!

It's immensely amusing that a fanboi is giving another fanboi crap.

You *do* realize that's exactly what you're doing, right? And that you're just as guilty as he is?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You are so blind, its not even worth talking to you about anymore.

So people can see the truth about Riddick and the feature Rollo always likes to make out to be as nothing but good, here are some benches; http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/chronicles_of_riddick_performance/page6.asp

Even if SLI were to give you 2x the performance (which it doesnt) it will wouldnt be good enough to enjoy the game to me. And Rollo always says that 1600x1200 is his minimum res.. haha. Not with that game. Less than 25 fps in SLI, with no AA/AF. Wow, sign me up!

Ackmed-
Obviously nothing is going to run Riddick high res in 2++. The point is that 6800GTs and up give you the option to check out the soft shadows that make the game look a little more realistic.

A better point would be that 6800GTs and up totally crucify ATI cards in the more playable reduced IQ mode.

So lets see:
X800XL can't play Riddick at all with soft shadows, where at least a 6800GT will let you run it low res to see it.

And, the review you link to shows the X800XL/6800GT at 49fps vs 65fps and 33fps vs 44pfs at a more common setting(s) for the game. Sweeeeeeeet! Get your X800Xl and cut your Riddick performance by 33%! ATI has common a long way with their OGL. Maybe Humpus will replace the code in this one too and make the shadows less dark to give ATI users 3-4fps! Woot!

 

[fstime]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: BouZouki
I love how when Rollo has nothing else to say, he says some smart little comment like above.

I'm glad you're happy with this Bouzouki. You know how I'm always concerned with your opinion. Usually when I post, I try to think first,"WWBD?"*.





*What Would Bouzouki Do?

How long did it take you to think of that.

By the way, incase the Nvidia cards dont come out on top next round, suicide is always an option.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Ronin

It's immensely amusing that a fanboi is giving another fanboi crap.

You *do* realize that's exactly what you're doing, right? And that you're just as guilty as he is?

Find anything thats a "fanboi" (gay term btw) in my post. Then you may have a point. As of now, you dont. Considering that you are a heavy NV enforcer, what you say is even more funny.

What I said, was that the feature Rollo always touts, isnt even usable anyways. So why should it matter? He always comments that the NV cards can do it, but never once tells how much it hurts performance. In the fact that it cuts frames to a quarter or so of what they were. Lots of people have LCD's and cant/wont scale down to 1024x768 just to see some shadows, that doesnt even look much better to start with. Keep in mind, those benches were without AA and AF.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: BouZouki
I love how when Rollo has nothing else to say, he says some smart little comment like above.

I'm glad you're happy with this Bouzouki. You know how I'm always concerned with your opinion. Usually when I post, I try to think first,"WWBD?"*.





*What Would Bouzouki Do?

How long did it take you to think of that.

By the way, incase the Nvidia cards dont come out on top next round, suicide is always an option.

About 2 seconds- I'm fairly smart.

LOL- what do I care if nVidia cards come out on top? Unlike fools with brand loyalty, I'll buy and use whatever suits my needs best or has what I deem the most interesting approach.
I actually sold my GF3 cheap to a buddy to use a Voodoo5!

If ATI comes out on top, might I recommend AstroGlide?

 

[Ronin]

Yeah, I'm a heavy nVidia fanboi. I'm just running an x850 XT PE AGP in my box right now *smacks head*

You attack Rollo BECAUSE you are a fanboi, and a weak one at that. Your arguments never hold merit, and your justifications are typically extremely weak in nature. You, BZ, Bar, you're all alike, and you're all worthless to these forums.

 

[Ackmed]

You run it because you have to? Going by your sig, its not your main box.

If my "argument" doest hold any merit, feel free to debunk it.

Acting like you are better than someone on a forum is pretty pathetic however.

 

[Muscles]

I just wasted a lot of time reading this whole thread realizing Rollo did "pwn" all you ati fanboys. Oh well better luck next time guys!

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You run it because you have to? Going by your sig, its not your main box.

If my "argument" doest hold any merit, feel free to debunk it.

Acting like you are better than someone on a forum is pretty pathetic however.

Would you like me to put my other box up then? Hrmmm? Does it matter which is there? I don't think so.

I *am* better than you, boy, in just about every way you can imagine.

 

[Zebo]

meh Ill be nice

 

[xxxAgentxxx]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: xxxAgentxxx
Back to the OP... I personally would run with the x800XL unless you plan to utilize SLI in the near future. It's roughly identical to 6800GT, minus sm3.0 and $100.

I ran that 1080i vid, p43.2e / 9800 pro, i'd have to say roughly 60fps, without a single stutter from start to finish. After seeing the 10fps the NU pulled, I expected it to look like crap... A nice surprise (for a change)

So what did you use to measure this "60fps" and "10fps"? I have a 6800NU on my 5 year olds computer and would like to check.

I eyeballed it with 11 years of PC gaming exp. Infact, after running it I thought about coming on here just to ask you how you determined yours ran 70-80fps so I could bench mine. That isn't a slam, so don't get all defensive and post that the average human can only detect perceive 30fps.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You run it because you have to? Going by your sig, its not your main box.

If my "argument" doest hold any merit, feel free to debunk it.

Acting like you are better than someone on a forum is pretty pathetic however.

Would you like me to put my other box up then? Hrmmm? Does it matter which is there? I don't think so.

I *am* better than you, boy, in just about every way you can imagine.

About what I expected from you. You say my post doesnt have any merit, and yet you cant debunk it. You call my post wothless, then post this jewel of a post. Good job being hypocritical, and useless.

You are also ignorant, you do no know anything about me. If you cant post on topic, dont expect a reply anymore.