Xbitlabs review is up

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

And then again, there is always hundreds of search engines one could use to lookup canadian 6800GTS pricing.

THIS came up on my very first google search for "Canada 8800GTS". Not very difficult to "know" things with the internet at ones fingertips.

of course ... and i always want to give my old buddy Wreckage the benefit of the doubt

but would you post an *old* price and neglect to notice that that it NOW also has a rebate?

There are "buts" here? What difference does this make? Is this where your next witch hunt begins? Hold on, let me get some popcorn and pepsi. :roll:

well *would you?* ... would you "just now" look up a link and post the old price without the rebate?
--would you?

and ...

witch hunt
:Q

witch hunt
:shocked:

is THAT what you are thinking?

i just noted a couple of "inconsistencies" that i wanted explained

much as my buddy Wreckage does to my posts ... fair is fair

am i wrong to ask about something that i see that doesn't quite add up?
-- i don't usually begin my explanation with "denials" only to change the excuses completely

no biggie ... for me

and unless i remember incorrectly, Keys, you once lead a mob to burn Rollo at the stake

No apoppin, that was you.

 

[apoppin]

i guess you are right about everything ... selective memory and all ...
-as usual

forget it ... as i said, 'no biggie'

it is only an inconsistancy ... my posts get put under a microscope by Mr. W ...
i am always glad to return a favor

 

[apoppin]

i am going to let this go ... but i guess i am now being asked to defend "why" i even brought it up

sorry, but i just found these two statements hard to reconcile in my mind:
[in correct posting sequence]

1.

$365 CAD, even better! I actually had no idea how much they cost in Canada eh. I just knew that all dem crazy canucks shop at NCIX. It's like their newegg.

and

2.

Actually the recent awesome price on the GTS640 and the recent article on the 2900's lack of UVD were both uncovered first on other forums.

either you know or you don't know

i am saying he knew the old price and didn't have to search at all .. as 'implied" by knowing exactly where to check and NOT even looking at the price he was previously so "sure" of - $385 Canadian ... which had changed in the meantime --changed to $395 with a $30 MiR or $365 after MiR .. so no "typo" excuse
-why he denied knowing - at first - is beyond me

little things like this just catch my attention ... it is in my blood ... my "start" in Journalism lead to 'investigative reporting' in Ireland and England and a Cover Story that i authored ... and especially since Wreckage has recently come into every one of my threads to derail it and to ridicule me ... well, as i said before: "fair is fair"

everyone has already has made up their mind about the both of us ... so i will drop it ... put the popcorn away
--unless questioned about it


now what about that x-bit review?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Look at ACTUAL prices.

Here in Toronto you can get an X2900XT for cheaper than an 8800GTS 640mb.

p.s. Could you add a few more 'ha ha's' to your post? I don't think we get the point yet. :roll:

Oh I am interested where can you find the HD 2900 XT in Toronto for less then the GTS 640? I live in Toronto so would be interested. The lowest price that I have available to me through E-tail is 395 CND before (mail in rebate :disgust: ) plus GST .

A week or two ago, the X2900XT *was* cheaper than the 8800GTS 640mb at a store called Filtech in downtown Toronto (I buy all my stuff there - they're great).

Right now they have the X2900XT listed at $465. It should be less than $400 in a week or two; there seems to be a price war heating up.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Look at ACTUAL prices.

Here in Toronto you can get an X2900XT for cheaper than an 8800GTS 640mb.

p.s. Could you add a few more 'ha ha's' to your post? I don't think we get the point yet. :roll:

Oh I am interested where can you find the HD 2900 XT in Toronto for less then the GTS 640? I live in Toronto so would be interested. The lowest price that I have available to me through E-tail is 395 CND before (mail in rebate :disgust: ) plus GST .

A week or two ago, the X2900XT *was* cheaper than the 8800GTS 640mb at a store called Filtech in downtown Toronto (I buy all my stuff there - they're great).

Right now they have the X2900XT listed at $465. It should be less than $400 in a week or two; there seems to be a price war heating up.

Thank you for the information about the B&M place.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dug777
Is there any doubt that Wreckage is on Nvidia's payroll?

Part of me honestly hopes he is, because if he's just some sad case living in his folks basement pimping them out of an all consuming love for the big, cuddly and friendly multinational corporation, he leads one of the most pathetic existences i can imagine.

You have a post count of 20766 and you accuse me of living in my parents basement.... lol I sure hope you see the irony in that.

Some of us spent five years at law school, which effectively involved five years of two semesters solid in front of the computer screen, so i'm afraid i don't follow.

What is it that you do, again?

 

[Ackmed]

One thing is pretty clear. He had an agenda to try and shed a negative light on the 2900XT, when the review. All that was posted was quotes and numbers from the review, and he had to try and slam it for no other reason, other than it showed the 2900XT is a fairly good light.

 

[lopri]

HD 2900 XT price actually went up a little bit so it must be either 1) selling well, or 2) supply is low. I think the former is the case since stores have many different brands' in stock. I'm personally waiting for the price to settle. (and mature drivers)

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
One thing is pretty clear. He had an agenda to try and shed a negative light on the 2900XT, when the review. All that was posted was quotes and numbers from the review, and he had to try and slam it for no other reason, other than it showed the 2900XT is a fairly good light.

How did I slam the review again?

It shows that the 2900 lost to the GTS640 in at least 6 games and broke even in several others. They also go on to say...

However, with sufficient performance and free games come power consumption of 161W as well as very noisy cooling system (at least, in case of our board) in addition to imperfect drivers, which, for example, do not allow to enable FSAA with edge-detect filter, something, which is projected to provide high image quality amid minimal performance drop. As a consequence of such driver limitation of the Radeon HD 2000, Nvidia?s GeForce 8800 can claim better image quality, as its CSAA works without an issue.

So looking at the review it seems that the 2900 provides similar performance with worse image quality, a louder fan, higher power requirements and a higher cost.

What part of that do you dispute?

 

[BlizzardOne]

161W?? what happened to 240W+...

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: BlizzardOne
161W?? what happened to 240W+...

You mean 225W. Thats the maximum possible load for a graphics card using 2x 6 pin conncectors and one 16xPCI-e slot.

IT could exceed that using 6pin and a 8 pin, but those cases are VERY rare. I dont think ive seen any situation where a 3d app has stressed the card that much before.

 

[BlizzardOne]

225, 240.. some places threw 270 around too. doesn't really matter.. they were all waaaayyy off base, if 161 is accurate.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Its just a theoretical value thats all. Its not impossible to reach 225W but theres a very small limited means to reach that value, and i dont think buyers are out there that are going to give their expensive highend cards a torture of their life time

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
One thing is pretty clear. He had an agenda to try and shed a negative light on the 2900XT, when the review. All that was posted was quotes and numbers from the review, and he had to try and slam it for no other reason, other than it showed the 2900XT is a fairly good light.

Well then I think we all would appreciate if you told us all what is good about the 2900XT and how it outshines it's direct competition. Put a touch of your own PR on it too of course. Oh jeez, I didn't have to say that now did I...

I personally think that the memory controller is screwed up somehow. Would explain the severe tanking in performance when AA is turned up. It "could" be drivers, but seeing how this product was over 7 months late, do you think it was possible for AMD to screw around and not present the best drivers possible at launch? Could be I guess. Maybe even likely? AMD is so busy with other things. Nvidia had similar complaints with Vista support at launch, but thankfully that is being taken care of. Hope AMD does the same.

Ackmed, when you receive your dual 2900XT's, do let us know how wonderful they are.

 

[BlizzardOne]

I know it's theoretical

Just playing a spot of devil's advocate.

a couple months ago you had a number of people crying doom and gloom re. the power consumption "oh it has a 6 and 8 pin connector, it'll suck up 270w etc etc" and needing your own personal fusion reactor to get the thing running..

yet here we are with Xbitlabs indicating power consumption lower than a GTX.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: BlizzardOne
I know it's theoretical

Just playing a spot of devil's advocate.

a couple months ago you had a number of people crying doom and gloom re. the power consumption "oh it has a 6 and 8 pin connector, it'll suck up 270w etc etc" and needing your own personal fusion reactor to get the thing running..

yet here we are with Xbitlabs indicating power consumption lower than a GTX.

And when is that Blizzard? Don't be myopic and see the whole picture, then reword your statement appropriately. Jeez.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

It shows that the 2900 lost to the GTS640 in at least 6 games and broke even in several others.

You forget to mention in all of those it also comes head to head with the X1950XT, so its obviously driver related

"In 5 cases out of 19 our today?s hero either demonstrates unacceptably low results, or comes behind GeForce 8800 GTS. The latter never shows inappropriately low results, but in 7 cases out of 19 it comes third."

But hey, lets ignore the fact that it comes ahead or equals the GTX 4 times right? (not counting 3dmark)
Lets ignore the fact that in everything other than the driver bugged games, its way faster than the GTS, right?

Oh and to finish off about IQ

However, with sufficient performance and free games come power consumption of 161W as well as very noisy cooling system (at least, in case of our board) in addition to imperfect drivers, which, for example, do not allow to enable FSAA with edge-detect filter, something, which is projected to provide high image quality amid minimal performance drop. As a consequence of such driver limitation of the Radeon HD 2000, Nvidia?s GeForce 8800 can claim better image quality, as its CSAA works without an issue.

I bolded all that for you to understand

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

It shows that the 2900 lost to the GTS640 in at least 6 games and broke even in several others.

You forget to mention in all of those it also comes head to head with the X1950XT, so its obviously driver related

"In 5 cases out of 19 our today?s hero either demonstrates unacceptably low results, or comes behind GeForce 8800 GTS. The latter never shows inappropriately low results, but in 7 cases out of 19 it comes third."

But hey, lets ignore the fact that it comes ahead or equals the GTX 4 times right? (not counting 3dmark)
Lets ignore the fact that in everything other than the driver bugged games, its way faster than the GTS, right?

Oh and to finish off about IQ

However, with sufficient performance and free games come power consumption of 161W as well as very noisy cooling system (at least, in case of our board) in addition to imperfect drivers, which, for example, do not allow to enable FSAA with edge-detect filter, something, which is projected to provide high image quality amid minimal performance drop. As a consequence of such driver limitation of the Radeon HD 2000, Nvidia?s GeForce 8800 can claim better image quality, as its CSAA works without an issue.

I bolded all that for you to understand

Then understand this. If and when they fix the IQ on the 2900XT and it has to actually RENDER everything instead of blurring it, I highly doubt performance will go up. IQ improvement? Surely no doubt.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

It shows that the 2900 lost to the GTS640 in at least 6 games and broke even in several others.

You forget to mention in all of those it also comes head to head with the X1950XT, so its obviously driver related

"In 5 cases out of 19 our today?s hero either demonstrates unacceptably low results, or comes behind GeForce 8800 GTS. The latter never shows inappropriately low results, but in 7 cases out of 19 it comes third."

But hey, lets ignore the fact that it comes ahead or equals the GTX 4 times right? (not counting 3dmark)
Lets ignore the fact that in everything other than the driver bugged games, its way faster than the GTS, right?

Oh and to finish off about IQ

However, with sufficient performance and free games come power consumption of 161W as well as very noisy cooling system (at least, in case of our board) in addition to imperfect drivers, which, for example, do not allow to enable FSAA with edge-detect filter, something, which is projected to provide high image quality amid minimal performance drop. As a consequence of such driver limitation of the Radeon HD 2000, Nvidia?s GeForce 8800 can claim better image quality, as its CSAA works without an issue.

I bolded all that for you to understand

Then understand this. If and when they fix the IQ on the 2900XT and it has to actually RENDER everything instead of blurring it, I highly doubt performance will go up. IQ improvement? Surely no doubt.

I think you've somewhat missed his point, and i don't think he made it very clearly.

This comment may be the more important part:

You forget to mention in all of those it also comes head to head with the X1950XT, so its obviously driver related

I'm not sure if it was you, but i saw someone in the Call of Juarez DX10 thread using exactly the same argument regarding the 8800GTX getting a similar score to an OC'd GTS and thus driver issues being at the bottom of it, and the general consensus was that the argument was valid, so i can't see why that shouldn't be the case here?

As usual, some thoughts of mine that may or may not be worth your reading time...hot sauce?

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Then understand this. If and when they fix the IQ on the 2900XT and it has to actually RENDER everything instead of blurring it, I highly doubt performance will go up. IQ improvement? Surely no doubt.

Hm... Thats not what Im getting from their statement... From what I get, current AA performance is crap because of drivers, as AA was supposed to have minimal performance drop

Right here

FSAA with edge-detect filter, something, which is projected to provide high image quality amid minimal performance drop

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

It shows that the 2900 lost to the GTS640 in at least 6 games and broke even in several others.

You forget to mention in all of those it also comes head to head with the X1950XT, so its obviously driver related

"In 5 cases out of 19 our today?s hero either demonstrates unacceptably low results, or comes behind GeForce 8800 GTS. The latter never shows inappropriately low results, but in 7 cases out of 19 it comes third."

But hey, lets ignore the fact that it comes ahead or equals the GTX 4 times right? (not counting 3dmark)
Lets ignore the fact that in everything other than the driver bugged games, its way faster than the GTS, right?

Oh and to finish off about IQ

However, with sufficient performance and free games come power consumption of 161W as well as very noisy cooling system (at least, in case of our board) in addition to imperfect drivers, which, for example, do not allow to enable FSAA with edge-detect filter, something, which is projected to provide high image quality amid minimal performance drop. As a consequence of such driver limitation of the Radeon HD 2000, Nvidia?s GeForce 8800 can claim better image quality, as its CSAA works without an issue.

I bolded all that for you to understand

Then understand this. If and when they fix the IQ on the 2900XT and it has to actually RENDER everything instead of blurring it, I highly doubt performance will go up. IQ improvement? Surely no doubt.

You highly doubt?
:Q

since when did getting yourself a GTs make you an *expert* on HD2900xt?


it didn't take much to skew your PoV ... again

 

[terentenet]

LOL!!! They tested CnC3, which is FPS capped @ 30 and concluded that 2900XT is as good as GTX. )
I'm not saying it's not, perhaps it's even better! But, why don't we turn Vsync ON and say 2900XT is on par with 8800 Ultra in many titles?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

It shows that the 2900 lost to the GTS640 in at least 6 games and broke even in several others.

You forget to mention in all of those it also comes head to head with the X1950XT, so its obviously driver related

"In 5 cases out of 19 our today?s hero either demonstrates unacceptably low results, or comes behind GeForce 8800 GTS. The latter never shows inappropriately low results, but in 7 cases out of 19 it comes third."

But hey, lets ignore the fact that it comes ahead or equals the GTX 4 times right? (not counting 3dmark)
Lets ignore the fact that in everything other than the driver bugged games, its way faster than the GTS, right?

Oh and to finish off about IQ

However, with sufficient performance and free games come power consumption of 161W as well as very noisy cooling system (at least, in case of our board) in addition to imperfect drivers, which, for example, do not allow to enable FSAA with edge-detect filter, something, which is projected to provide high image quality amid minimal performance drop. As a consequence of such driver limitation of the Radeon HD 2000, Nvidia?s GeForce 8800 can claim better image quality, as its CSAA works without an issue.

I bolded all that for you to understand

Then understand this. If and when they fix the IQ on the 2900XT and it has to actually RENDER everything instead of blurring it, I highly doubt performance will go up. IQ improvement? Surely no doubt.

You highly doubt?
:Q

since when did getting yourself a GTs make you an *expert* on HD2900xt?


it didn't take much to skew your PoV ... again

I didn't mean to step on your dark horse theory, but generally speaking, what usually is sacrificed to get more performance out of any given graphics card? Could it be IQ? And isn't the reverse true? That increasing IQ often does reduce performance? That is why I say that performance and IQ are on a balanced scale. IQ up performance down and reversed.

Also, it is not very clear what being an expert, or not, on HD2900XT has to do with anyone who owns a GTS?? Care to clear that up? I'm no more and "expert" on it than you are, yet you seem to strongly have your "dark horse" theory. That's all well in good. My theory is, IQ goes up but performance will not. At least not at the same time. Savvy?

Anyway, your turn.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: terentenet
LOL!!! They tested CnC3, which is FPS capped @ 30 and concluded that 2900XT is as good as GTX. )
I'm not saying it's not, perhaps it's even better! But, why don't we turn Vsync ON and say 2900XT is on par with 8800 Ultra in many titles?

Hum, dude, they based it on the MIN fps, and the fact is the HD2900XT had higher min fps than the GTX, thus making it more playable, since max FPS dont matter (at least to me)

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
I bolded all that for you to understand

I see. So I should add "worse drivers" to my statements about the 2900? I thought you were on AMD's side?