Xbitlabs review is up

[BFG10K]

The 2900 has lost to the GTS320 in some games.

My 8800 GTS is losing to my X800 XL in DE:IW six months after its release.

Also in CoD:UO it's losing to a GMA because it's hitting 4 FPS.

And again this is with drivers that are six months old; how hard is it to understand that initial ATi drivers are bound to have problems?

 

[yacoub]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: A554SS1N
I think the true performance of the X2900XT lies between being faster than an 8800GTS and faster than an 8800GTX, if looking at the better games, and simply awful drivers (they'd have to be) are holding it back to slower than X1950XT performance in other games. Either that, or they're produced a rubbish architecture, which is less likely.

Agreed. It HAS to be some awful drivers.

Actually I've been reading that ATI simply messed up the architecture.

They gave it only 16 texture units. The X800XT has 16 texture units and it's obsolete by a few generations now.

Apparenly the 320 shaders it has are highly inefficient, and it is nearly impossible to put them all to use at once.

It's disappointing. The chip has 700 transistors, which is why it runs so hot and needs so much power.

Honestly, how does that happen? Any gamer of average intellect could have told AMD what the card needed spec-wise to compete. How can an electrical engineering R&D team screw up something as basic as the number of texture units?

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Wreckage, you are a detriment to the Video forum. Know that while accepting whatever bribes Nvidia has paid you, you have ruined these boards for thousands of people.

Ah yes, and your personal attack against me has lifted these boards to new heights of greatness. :roll:

I have backed everything I say with facts, as much as it seems to hurt you personally you just have to get over it.

Boy the "MAD AT I" fan boys are in rare form these days. :brokenheart:

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: yacoub

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: A554SS1N
I think the true performance of the X2900XT lies between being faster than an 8800GTS and faster than an 8800GTX, if looking at the better games, and simply awful drivers (they'd have to be) are holding it back to slower than X1950XT performance in other games. Either that, or they're produced a rubbish architecture, which is less likely.

Agreed. It HAS to be some awful drivers.

Actually I've been reading that ATI simply messed up the architecture.

They gave it only 16 texture units. The X800XT has 16 texture units and it's obsolete by a few generations now.

Apparenly the 320 shaders it has are highly inefficient, and it is nearly impossible to put them all to use at once.

It's disappointing. The chip has 700 transistors, which is why it runs so hot and needs so much power.

Honestly, how does that happen? Any gamer of average intellect could have told AMD what the card needed spec-wise to compete. How can an electrical engineering R&D team screw up something as basic as the number of texture units?

I don't know why they did it. Perhaps the card is a physics-processing monster, and that's the aspect that they felt would be the most important.

It's probably hard for these companies to accurately simulate real-world performance before a chip 'tapes out'. The 16 pipeline thing always struck me as bizarre. ATI has been going with fewer pipelines and more shader power since the X1800/X1900 cards. Perhaps they figure that texturing has become less important when reality states otherwise.

Also note that the X2900XT has better specs than the 8800 cards. On paper.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Creig
You can keep trying to downplay Xbit's findings that the HD2900XT "is either as fast, or faster than GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB in most cases" all you want, but it won't change their final conclusion.

I'm not trying to downplay the fact that the 2900 lost in several games or at most broke even to a card that costs $100 less. Not only does it cost less but it sucks less power and does not sound like a low flying plane.

Those are the issues that you are trying to downplay.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Wreckage, you are a detriment to the Video forum. Know that while accepting whatever bribes Nvidia has paid you, you have ruined these boards for thousands of people.

Ah yes, and your personal attack against me has lifted these boards to new heights of greatness. :roll:

But nowhere near as high as your level of trolling has dragged us.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Wreckage, you are a detriment to the Video forum. Know that while accepting whatever bribes Nvidia has paid you, you have ruined these boards for thousands of people.

Ah yes, and your personal attack against me has lifted these boards to new heights of greatness. :roll:

I have backed everything I say with facts, as much as it seems to hurt you personally you just have to get over it.

Boy the "MAD AT I" fan boys are in rare form these days. :brokenheart:

So your 'facts' are that the 8800GTS 320mb card beats the X2900XT in 3 games? I guess you could say that an X1950XT is about as good as an 8800GTS 640mb since it nearly beats it in Far Cry. :roll:

I'm upset more because of your blatant distortion of the facts than anything else. If you were to say wonderful things about ATI that weren't true, I would be just as upet.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Creig

But nowhere near as high as your level of trolling has dragged us.

If posting facts about video cards in a "video" forum is trolling, what is attacking another member of that same forum because you can't defend yourself in a debate? I think you have to start looking at your own issues before calling out others.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: Creig

But nowhere near as high as your level of trolling has dragged us.

If posting facts about video cards in a "video" forum is trolling, what is attacking another member of that same forum because you can't defend yourself in a debate? I think you have to start looking at your own issues before calling out others.

My own issues? Creig's own issues? Wreckage, you're called out as a troll in just about every thread you post in. :roll:

We could both just point you to the article at Xbit if you want your 'facts'. Heck, read the AT review if you want, it says pretty much the same thing.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

So your 'facts' are that the 8800GTS 320mb card beats the X2900XT in 3 games? I guess you could say that an X1950XT is about as good as an 8800GTS 640mb since it nearly beats it in Far Cry. :roll:

I'm upset more because of your blatant distortion of the facts than anything else. If you were to say wonderful things about ATI that weren't true, I would be just as upet.

You missed my point by a light year. I will reiterate.

The 2900XT is not competing well against a card that costs $100 less (GTS640). However if it was priced lower than the 640 into the 320 range (which it beats no problem) then it would be more competitive.

Now you don't have to listen to me or trust me but plenty of review sites have stated it's "as good" as a 640 while drawing more power, producing more heat, producing more noise and costing more. So I don't see how anyone can recommend it and totally ignore those issues.

My own issues? Creig's own issues? Wreckage, you're called out as a troll in just about every thread you post in. :roll:

Yes and neither of you have ever been considered "fair and balanced" lol. So call me whatever you want if it makes you feel better. I don't think anyone is fooled into thinking you are some level headed non-biased individual who just wandered by and found me to be too harsh.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast

So your 'facts' are that the 8800GTS 320mb card beats the X2900XT in 3 games? I guess you could say that an X1950XT is about as good as an 8800GTS 640mb since it nearly beats it in Far Cry. :roll:

I'm upset more because of your blatant distortion of the facts than anything else. If you were to say wonderful things about ATI that weren't true, I would be just as upet.

You missed my point by a light year. I will reiterate.

The 2900XT is not competing well against a card that costs $100 less (GTS640). However if it was priced lower than the 640 into the 320 range (which it beats no problem) then it would be more competitive.

Now you don't have to listen to me or trust me but plenty of review sites have stated it's "as good" as a 640 while drawing more power, producing more heat, producing more noise and costing more. So I don't see how anyone can recommend it and totally ignore those issues.

The 320mb GTS costs close to $100 less than the 640mb card.

I agree with you on the heat and noise, but really, it's not so far off of what an 8800 card produces. Certainly not enough to warrant making the card $100 cheaper. You could buy a 700w PSU for that.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
My own issues? Creig's own issues? Wreckage, you're called out as a troll in just about every thread you post in. :roll:

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Yes and neither of you have ever been considered "fair and balanced" lol. So call me whatever you want if it makes you feel better. I don't think anyone is fooled into thinking you are some level headed non-biased individual who just wandered by and found me to be too harsh.

Man this reminds me of that scene in Star Wars where Darth Vader tells Luke he's his father.

Rollo is that you??? :Q

Rollo used to say he was 'fair and balanced', and really you haven't been here long enough to know what my 'reputation' is. I'm pretty sure most would consider me fair. I do own an 8800GTS 320mb you know, and I do work for a living.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Rollo used to say he was 'fair and balanced',

I know, that's why I thought it was funny to label you and Creig that way.

and really you haven't been here long enough to know what my 'reputation' is.

I have been here long enough to consider you a "MAD AT I" apologist.

I'm pretty sure most would consider me fair. I do own an 8800GTS 320mb you know, and I do work for a living.

I think Rollo used to claim he had many an ATI card so....there yah go.

The 320mb GTS costs close to $100 less than the 640mb card.

I agree with you on the heat and noise, but really, it's not so far off of what an 8800 card produces. Certainly not enough to warrant making the card $100 cheaper. You could buy a 700w PSU for that.

So if you agree with me on the heat and noise and you can see from the recent Xbit review that the 2900XT is in no way a clear winner above the GTS640 why would it be worth $100 more???

 

[SickBeast]

Wreckage:


The suggested retail price of the 8800GTS 640mb is the *same* as the MSRP of the X2900XT.

Perhaps Rollo thought it would be cute to name himself 'Wreckage' after his previous nick crashed and burned. :light:

You did show up shortly after Rollo left, no? How do you know so much about him?

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
I'm not trying to downplay the fact that the 2900 lost in several games or at most broke even to a card that costs $100 less.

No, you're trying to downplay the fact that the 2900 beat the 8800GTS 640 in the majority of benchmarks.

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Not only does it cost less but it sucks less power and does not sound like a low flying plane.

And performs less. And performance, the last time I checked, was the most important factor in a high end video card.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Rollo used to say he was 'fair and balanced',

I know, that's why I thought it was funny to label you and Creig that way.

IMO Rollo's idea of "fair and balanced" was a blonde albino who could stand on one foot. :Q



Basically I do not aspire to be like Rollo, so I'll take your statement as a compliment. :light:
:lips:

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The suggested retail price of the 8800GTS 640mb is the *same* as the MSRP of the X2900XT.

MSRP? ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,
ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,

Sorry, that was just funny. Look at ACTUAL prices. You can get a GTS for around $300 and a 2900 for around $400. I guess you could argue with the store and make them charge you MSRP for the GTS......too funny.

Perhaps Rollo thought it would be cute to name himself 'Wreckage' after his previous nick crashed and burned. :light:

You did show up shortly after Rollo left, no? How do you know so much about him?

Ah yes, false accusations. The last tactic in a losing argument. I really had hoped you could do better than that.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Look at ACTUAL prices.

Here in Toronto you can get an X2900XT for cheaper than an 8800GTS 640mb.

p.s. Could you add a few more 'ha ha's' to your post? I don't think we get the point yet. :roll:

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here in Toronto you can get an X2900XT for cheaper than an 8800GTS 640mb.

Cheaper than $385 CAD?
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?...06&vpn=640-P2-N821-AR&manufacture=eVGA

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here in Toronto you can get an X2900XT for cheaper than an 8800GTS 640mb.

Cheaper than $385 CAD?
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?...06&vpn=640-P2-N821-AR&manufacture=eVGA

No, that's a good price. The 8800GTS has come down alot in price lately. I've seen it for $465.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Here in Toronto you can get an X2900XT for cheaper than an 8800GTS 640mb.

Cheaper than $385 CAD?
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?...06&vpn=640-P2-N821-AR&manufacture=eVGA

Wow!

you sure know your Canadian Prices
:Q

3 minutes for the best prices in Canada for GTS
... and in the USA "Hot Deals"

you are quite the salesman for nvidia
--totally amazing .. for an American dude

unrelated ... why is your profile never enabled?

 

[dug777]

Is there any doubt that Wreckage is on Nvidia's payroll?

Part of me honestly hopes he is, because if he's just some sad case living in his folks basement pimping them out of an all consuming love for the big, cuddly and friendly multinational corporation, he leads one of the most pathetic existences i can imagine.

 

[hardwareking]

the HD 2900 xt in xbits review does quiet good(the wonders of drivers)
It performs on par or better than the 8800 GTS cards most of the time and in some cases pulls ahead of the 8800 GTX

But some games are massively bought down by drivers

And sapphire said they plan to release the HD 2900 xtx version soon(i'll post a link once i find it)
That'll have 1 gb of drr4 clocked higher,which might be enuf to beat the 8800 GTX/Ultra

And the HD 2900 xt is cheaper than the ultra/gtx,and if xbits review is considered credible,then it is a good buy
Atleast thats what i think

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: yacoub

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: A554SS1N
I think the true performance of the X2900XT lies between being faster than an 8800GTS and faster than an 8800GTX, if looking at the better games, and simply awful drivers (they'd have to be) are holding it back to slower than X1950XT performance in other games. Either that, or they're produced a rubbish architecture, which is less likely.

Agreed. It HAS to be some awful drivers.

Actually I've been reading that ATI simply messed up the architecture.

They gave it only 16 texture units. The X800XT has 16 texture units and it's obsolete by a few generations now.

Apparenly the 320 shaders it has are highly inefficient, and it is nearly impossible to put them all to use at once.

It's disappointing. The chip has 700 transistors, which is why it runs so hot and needs so much power.

Honestly, how does that happen? Any gamer of average intellect could have told AMD what the card needed spec-wise to compete. How can an electrical engineering R&D team screw up something as basic as the number of texture units?

Well, going with 16 texture units isn't necessarily a game-ender for AMD as most games are getting more and more shader-intensive (Especially with DX10) and not nearly as texture-processing intensive. This was the whole idea behind the X1900 architecture, and it really flourished in the end... there's no doubt that in today's games, an X1900 is going to beat a 7900 (with a few exceptions of course.)

I'm no expert on GPU architecture but from what I've heard, it's not always easy to keep the XT's 320 shading processors fed. That's probably one of the reasons (along with drivers) some games see bad performance on the HD 2900XT. We've seen several games (most notably Company of Heroes, but also BF2142, Splinter Cell: DA, Rainbow Six, and a few others) where the HD 2900XT is right neck to neck with the GTX. Alot of these games also happen to be fairly new, and RB6 is also based on the UE3 engine. I think that as this year progresses, with steady driver releases and newer games, the HD 2900XT will compete with (or some times surpass) the 8800GTX in regards to performance.

The only thing I'm hoping for is for prices to drop. Current prices are well ($50~) above MSRP and they seem like they just keep rising. When I can get an XT for $375~, and sell my GTS for $300 or so, then I will probably buy one.

 

[hardwareking]

also i'm pretty sure 360 ports will perform better(cept maybe lost planet as of now) on the HD 2900 xt than the 8800 cards