Xbitlabs review is up

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

It shows that the 2900 lost to the GTS640 in at least 6 games and broke even in several others.

You forget to mention in all of those it also comes head to head with the X1950XT, so its obviously driver related

"In 5 cases out of 19 our today?s hero either demonstrates unacceptably low results, or comes behind GeForce 8800 GTS. The latter never shows inappropriately low results, but in 7 cases out of 19 it comes third."

But hey, lets ignore the fact that it comes ahead or equals the GTX 4 times right? (not counting 3dmark)
Lets ignore the fact that in everything other than the driver bugged games, its way faster than the GTS, right?

Oh and to finish off about IQ

However, with sufficient performance and free games come power consumption of 161W as well as very noisy cooling system (at least, in case of our board) in addition to imperfect drivers, which, for example, do not allow to enable FSAA with edge-detect filter, something, which is projected to provide high image quality amid minimal performance drop. As a consequence of such driver limitation of the Radeon HD 2000, Nvidia?s GeForce 8800 can claim better image quality, as its CSAA works without an issue.

I bolded all that for you to understand

Then understand this. If and when they fix the IQ on the 2900XT and it has to actually RENDER everything instead of blurring it, I highly doubt performance will go up. IQ improvement? Surely no doubt.

You highly doubt?
:Q

since when did getting yourself a GTs make you an *expert* on HD2900xt?


it didn't take much to skew your PoV ... again

I didn't mean to step on your dark horse theory, but generally speaking, what usually is sacrificed to get more performance out of any given graphics card? Could it be IQ? And isn't the reverse true? That increasing IQ often does reduce performance? That is why I say that performance and IQ are on a balanced scale. IQ up performance down and reversed.

Also, it is not very clear what being an expert, or not, on HD2900XT has to do with anyone who owns a GTS?? Care to clear that up? I'm no more and "expert" on it than you are, yet you seem to strongly have your "dark horse" theory. That's all well in good. My theory is, IQ goes up but performance will not. At least not at the same time. Savvy?

Anyway, your turn.

nope ... no turns ... i am not getting involved in this particular GPU war ... nvidia has won, imo

what i have noticed, Keys, is a pattern emerging after 4 years of "knowing" you as a poster on this forum
--you have always tried to be really "fair and balanced" ... and you *know* you used to be quite aggressive in getting your PoV across [so am i,acknowledged] .... and then you "mellowed out" ... for a long time

coincidently ... at the *same time* you got your GTS, your PoV instantly changed and got more and more vocal and pro-nvidia and decidedly anti-HD2900xt
--so ... i just thought i'd mention it ... that i noticed your apparent 'change' ...

as to me, i am keeping my "dark horse" theory to myself ... and have given up - 100% - on my silly promotion - because i now believe HD2900xt is a "finicky" product that would generate more ill will than good if they were given away in any kind of mass promotion
--so ... it's your turn ... you can be 'right'

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
...generally speaking, what usually is sacrificed to get more performance out of any given graphics card? Could it be IQ? And isn't the reverse true? That increasing IQ often does reduce performance? That is why I say that performance and IQ are on a balanced scale. IQ up performance down and reversed.

Generally speaking, that's true, but your "balance" theory of IQ-performance tradeoffs only holds if the drivers are already properly exploiting the architecture. If not, then update drivers can certainly increase both IQ and performance simultaneously, or at least increase performance without affecting IQ. Remember that the video forum hasn't seen a "driver-crippled architecture" (i.e. Radeon 8500) for many generations, so your assumption (i.e. the general case) was valid for quite a few years.

Personally, I don't think the hardware is being properly exploited; I believe ShadowOfMyself was saying this when he emphasized that the HD2900XT was running neck and neck...with the X1950XT in certain games while showing the expected increases in other games. However, this "quirk" could also be cause by badly designed or only partially working silicon that will never be fully exploited by certain kinds of engines regardless of driver changes.

I think a thorough examination of the 8.38 release driver will give us a much better indication of what's behind the performance problems. It has definitely improved performance in some of my games with no apparent loss of IQ, so I remain cautiously optimistic.

 

[Extelleron]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
...generally speaking, what usually is sacrificed to get more performance out of any given graphics card? Could it be IQ? And isn't the reverse true? That increasing IQ often does reduce performance? That is why I say that performance and IQ are on a balanced scale. IQ up performance down and reversed.

Generally speaking, that's true, but your "balance" theory of IQ-performance tradeoffs only holds if the drivers are already properly exploiting the architecture. If not, then update drivers can certainly increase both IQ and performance simultaneously, or at least increase performance without affecting IQ. Remember that the video forum hasn't seen a "driver-crippled architecture" (i.e. Radeon 8500) for many generations, so your assumption (i.e. the general case) was valid for quite a few years.

Personally, I don't think the hardware is being properly exploited; I believe ShadowOfMyself was saying this when he emphasized that the HD2900XT was running neck and neck...with the X1950XT in certain games while showing the expected increases in other games. However, this "quirk" could also be cause by badly designed or only partially working silicon that will never be fully exploited by certain kinds of engines regardless of driver changes.

I think a thorough examination of the 8.38 release driver will give us a much better indication of what's behind the performance problems. It has definitely improved performance in some of my games with no apparent loss of IQ, so I remain cautiously optimistic.

Perhaps not to the extent of the HD 2900XT, but the 8800 drivers at release were pretty bad. Since release there's been huge improvements, especially at 2560x1600. Example: In Fear, 2560x1600, the 8800GTX has gone from 32 FPS (at launch) to 44 FPS (at 8800 Ultra launch). That's a gain of 38%.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

It shows that the 2900 lost to the GTS640 in at least 6 games and broke even in several others.

You forget to mention in all of those it also comes head to head with the X1950XT, so its obviously driver related

"In 5 cases out of 19 our today?s hero either demonstrates unacceptably low results, or comes behind GeForce 8800 GTS. The latter never shows inappropriately low results, but in 7 cases out of 19 it comes third."

But hey, lets ignore the fact that it comes ahead or equals the GTX 4 times right? (not counting 3dmark)
Lets ignore the fact that in everything other than the driver bugged games, its way faster than the GTS, right?

Oh and to finish off about IQ

However, with sufficient performance and free games come power consumption of 161W as well as very noisy cooling system (at least, in case of our board) in addition to imperfect drivers, which, for example, do not allow to enable FSAA with edge-detect filter, something, which is projected to provide high image quality amid minimal performance drop. As a consequence of such driver limitation of the Radeon HD 2000, Nvidia?s GeForce 8800 can claim better image quality, as its CSAA works without an issue.

I bolded all that for you to understand

Then understand this. If and when they fix the IQ on the 2900XT and it has to actually RENDER everything instead of blurring it, I highly doubt performance will go up. IQ improvement? Surely no doubt.

You highly doubt?
:Q

since when did getting yourself a GTs make you an *expert* on HD2900xt?


it didn't take much to skew your PoV ... again

I didn't mean to step on your dark horse theory, but generally speaking, what usually is sacrificed to get more performance out of any given graphics card? Could it be IQ? And isn't the reverse true? That increasing IQ often does reduce performance? That is why I say that performance and IQ are on a balanced scale. IQ up performance down and reversed.

Also, it is not very clear what being an expert, or not, on HD2900XT has to do with anyone who owns a GTS?? Care to clear that up? I'm no more and "expert" on it than you are, yet you seem to strongly have your "dark horse" theory. That's all well in good. My theory is, IQ goes up but performance will not. At least not at the same time. Savvy?

Anyway, your turn.

nope ... no turns ... i am not getting involved in this particular GPU war ... nvidia has won, imo

what i have noticed, Keys, is a pattern emerging after 4 years of "knowing" you as a poster on this forum
--you have always tried to be really "fair and balanced" ... and you *know* you used to be quite aggressive in getting your PoV across [so am i,acknowledged] .... and then you "mellowed out" ... for a long time

coincidently ... at the *same time* you got your GTS, your PoV instantly changed and got more and more vocal and pro-nvidia and decidedly anti-HD2900xt
--so ... i just thought i'd mention it ... that i noticed your apparent 'change' ...

as to me, i am keeping my "dark horse" theory to myself ... and have given up - 100% - on my silly promotion - because i now believe HD2900xt is a "finicky" product that would generate more ill will than good if they were given away in any kind of mass promotion
--so ... it's your turn ... you can be 'right'

:::sigh::: Listen man, my GTS isn't the end all be all of everything ever created. Sure, it's REALLY nice and I am enjoying it very much. But have you noticed the time frame in which I got my GTS? Coincidentally, it was just around the same time the 2900XT was launched. And since that time, The ATI fans resurged for whatever reason and began posting stupidly and myopically. So, it's not my GTS that has heated my blood, but the others. It's just a coincidence. If you don't think so, well at least I know I told you like it is.
Do with it what you will, and stop trying to put mysterious puzzles together in here. This place isn't that romantic.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

:::sigh::: Listen man, my GTS isn't the end all be all of everything ever created. Sure, it's REALLY nice and I am enjoying it very much. But have you noticed the time frame in which I got my GTS? Coincidentally, it was just around the same time the 2900XT was launched. And since that time, The ATI fans resurged for whatever reason and began posting stupidly and myopically. So, it's not my GTS that has heated my blood, but the others. It's just a coincidence. If you don't think so, well at least I know I told you like it is.
Do with it what you will, and stop trying to put mysterious puzzles together in here. This place isn't that romantic.

coincidence ... if you say so ...

all i wanted to point out is that you have become more aggressive, more confrontational, more sarcastic, and have developed a definite superior attitude .... all within the last 2 weeks

... damn ... i think i'll get one ... $300 ...
-640MB GTS, right?

i'll be downright insufferable ... well ... even worse
... to tell the truth .. i am engaged in 'negotiations' to sell my x1950p
... right now

 

[yacoub]

Originally posted by: apoppin
... to tell the truth .. i am engaged in 'negotiations' to sell my x1950p
... right now

hey, it's your tomorrow!

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

:::sigh::: Listen man, my GTS isn't the end all be all of everything ever created. Sure, it's REALLY nice and I am enjoying it very much. But have you noticed the time frame in which I got my GTS? Coincidentally, it was just around the same time the 2900XT was launched. And since that time, The ATI fans resurged for whatever reason and began posting stupidly and myopically. So, it's not my GTS that has heated my blood, but the others. It's just a coincidence. If you don't think so, well at least I know I told you like it is.
Do with it what you will, and stop trying to put mysterious puzzles together in here. This place isn't that romantic.

coincidence ... if you say so ...

all i wanted to point out is that you have become more aggressive, more confrontational, more sarcastic, and have developed a definite superior attitude .... all within the last 2 weeks

... damn ... i think i'll get one ... $300 ...
-640MB GTS, right?

i'll be downright insufferable ... well ... even worse
... to tell the truth .. i am engaged in 'negotiations' to sell my x1950p
... right now

That card should double your 1950's performace. How much are the 320mb 8800's going for now anyway?

My 320mb card has been great and I have had no regrets. In fact, if I had spent more on the 640mb version I probably would have regretted it.

If you do get one, don't SLI two of them, it's a total waste.

R600 might be the 'dark horse' but you would have to wait 6 months for them to get the drivers straight.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
...generally speaking, what usually is sacrificed to get more performance out of any given graphics card? Could it be IQ? And isn't the reverse true? That increasing IQ often does reduce performance? That is why I say that performance and IQ are on a balanced scale. IQ up performance down and reversed.

Generally speaking, that's true, but your "balance" theory of IQ-performance tradeoffs only holds if the drivers are already properly exploiting the architecture. If not, then update drivers can certainly increase both IQ and performance simultaneously, or at least increase performance without affecting IQ. Remember that the video forum hasn't seen a "driver-crippled architecture" (i.e. Radeon 8500) for many generations, so your assumption (i.e. the general case) was valid for quite a few years.

Personally, I don't think the hardware is being properly exploited; I believe ShadowOfMyself was saying this when he emphasized that the HD2900XT was running neck and neck...with the X1950XT in certain games while showing the expected increases in other games. However, this "quirk" could also be cause by badly designed or only partially working silicon that will never be fully exploited by certain kinds of engines regardless of driver changes.

I think a thorough examination of the 8.38 release driver will give us a much better indication of what's behind the performance problems. It has definitely improved performance in some of my games with no apparent loss of IQ, so I remain cautiously optimistic.

Well said. I do understand this will be a work in progress and may take considerable time (E.G. Rad 8500) to squeeze the architecture. If ATI can come up with a way to keep all the shaders fed and busy, then the card should live up to it's specs. 320 shaders, 512 bit bus. Sounds monstrous, but if the shaders in their current incarnation cannot be utilized without massive scheduling overhead, well, R600 may be a dead end. They might be "hardware locked" into doing things only certain ways. It really depends on how truly programmable the architecture is and how flexible it is. So, I can adopt the "wait and see" stance as per usual.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

:::sigh::: Listen man, my GTS isn't the end all be all of everything ever created. Sure, it's REALLY nice and I am enjoying it very much. But have you noticed the time frame in which I got my GTS? Coincidentally, it was just around the same time the 2900XT was launched. And since that time, The ATI fans resurged for whatever reason and began posting stupidly and myopically. So, it's not my GTS that has heated my blood, but the others. It's just a coincidence. If you don't think so, well at least I know I told you like it is.
Do with it what you will, and stop trying to put mysterious puzzles together in here. This place isn't that romantic.

coincidence ... if you say so ...

all i wanted to point out is that you have become more aggressive, more confrontational, more sarcastic, and have developed a definite superior attitude .... all within the last 2 weeks

... damn ... i think i'll get one ... $300 ...
-640MB GTS, right?

i'll be downright insufferable ... well ... even worse
... to tell the truth .. i am engaged in 'negotiations' to sell my x1950p
... right now

Yeah, it's a coincidence. 2900XT's launch produced both extreme silence, and loud utter nonsense from ATI fans of all degrees. Being someone who can't stand stupidity, rudeness, or needless abuse, my mercury rises, what can I say. Anyway, enough about that crap. You'll really love the GTS. My 7900GT offered "roughly" the same performance as your X1950, and I was baffled when I started up a game and was able to no holds barred crank the snot out of everything, at 1680x1050 no less. At @ 300 bucks, it's a real nice upgrade. I'm looking to get a second one pretty soon, but first have to upgrade my PSU to something a bit more beefy.

I'd get the 2900XT though, if that is what you originally intended. Price may come down soon, but I see it climbed a little which is surprising. At least you could say, you took the left fork in the road when most others took the right?

Hehe, good luck either way.

 

[yacoub]

no one got my Van Halen reference

 

[SickBeast]

Well, I no longer think Keys is a fanboy or whatever they're called.

Personally I think apoppin should get the 8800, but I think he should go with the 320mb card seeing as he runs at a relatively low res and the higher memory would likely make no difference for him (and he would save $80 on the card which he can put towards more system memory or something).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Well, I no longer think Keys is a fanboy or whatever they're called.

Personally I think apoppin should get the 8800, but I think he should go with the 320mb card seeing as he runs at a relatively low res and the higher memory would likely make no difference for him (and he would save $80 on the card which he can put towards more system memory or something).

not a fanboy ... kind of an "elitist" looking down his nose at HD2900xt as somehow "flawed" ....
.. well, i guess it really IS flawed, unless you like 'power-hungry' coupled with immature drivers and still non-functional features ... for a price premium


well ... it all depends on how much i get for my x1950p

and i will get the 640M version [only if because you only have the 320M version ] ... No, because i will naturally upgrade my MB and display ... this 'el cheapo' 19" WS becomes my 2nd monitor - when i find one that i really like for really cheap.

actually .. the 640MB version is going for $295 after MiR ... and it could be a really cheap upgrade ... for some reason there are no fast AGP cards in FS/T

=================

Originally posted by: yacoub
no one got my Van Halen reference

who?

--with David Lee or after ? . . . or after with him again?
[i only got to see their first tour with Sammy as frontman]
=================

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Yeah, it's a coincidence. 2900XT's launch produced both extreme silence, and loud utter nonsense from ATI fans of all degrees. Being someone who can't stand stupidity, rudeness, or needless abuse, my mercury rises, what can I say. Anyway, enough about that crap. You'll really love the GTS. My 7900GT offered "roughly" the same performance as your X1950, and I was baffled when I started up a game and was able to no holds barred crank the snot out of everything, at 1680x1050 no less. At @ 300 bucks, it's a real nice upgrade. I'm looking to get a second one pretty soon, but first have to upgrade my PSU to something a bit more beefy.

I'd get the 2900XT though, if that is what you originally intended. Price may come down soon, but I see it climbed a little which is surprising. At least you could say, you took the left fork in the road when most others took the right?

Hehe, good luck either way.

thanks ... well let's then say your "tolerance level" abruptly decreased about 2 weeks ago
--i think you know what i mean
... and ... you want to see me blow a fuse? ... i should get a HD2900xt ... instead of a GTS ... for $125 more ... and "help" AMD fix it for the next six months ... for *free*
... sounds reasonable

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

... and ... you want to see me blow a fuse? ... i should get a HD2900xt ... instead of a GTS ... for $125 more ... and "help" AMD fix it for the next six months ... for *free*
... sounds reasonable

LMAO!! Ok, ok. I wasn't 100% serious about that last. Definitely get the 640GTS especially if you know you'll be upgrading your monitor to something that supports higher resolutions. And, for peace of mind.

Oh, and the looking down the nose thing? You're probably right, but it's just at the hardware, not the people who use them. Just to be clear on that.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

... and ... you want to see me blow a fuse? ... i should get a HD2900xt ... instead of a GTS ... for $125 more ... and "help" AMD fix it for the next six months ... for *free*
... sounds reasonable

LMAO!! Ok, ok. I wasn't 100% serious about that last. Definitely get the 640GTS especially if you know you'll be upgrading your monitor to something that supports higher resolutions. And, for peace of mind.

Oh, and the looking down the nose thing? You're probably right, but it's just at the hardware, not the people who use them. Just to be clear on that.

thanks! ... and cool!!

... and i talked my potential buyer into getting a new 7800GS instead
--so i am keeping my x1950p ... for now

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

... and ... you want to see me blow a fuse? ... i should get a HD2900xt ... instead of a GTS ... for $125 more ... and "help" AMD fix it for the next six months ... for *free*
... sounds reasonable

LMAO!! Ok, ok. I wasn't 100% serious about that last. Definitely get the 640GTS especially if you know you'll be upgrading your monitor to something that supports higher resolutions. And, for peace of mind.

Oh, and the looking down the nose thing? You're probably right, but it's just at the hardware, not the people who use them. Just to be clear on that.

thanks! ... and cool!!

... and i talked my potential buyer into getting a new 7800GS instead
--so i am keeping my x1950p ... for now

I can see why you're itching to upgrade; your system isn't really balanced. I would suggest getting a better display, then maybe a graphics card if you're having trouble at 1920x1200. :light:

*edit* There's a 37" Westinghouse on sale at Costco.com. I can't get one cuz they won't ship to Canada. It's one of the *ONLY* HDTVs that will let you hook up a PC to it at 1920x1080.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

... and ... you want to see me blow a fuse? ... i should get a HD2900xt ... instead of a GTS ... for $125 more ... and "help" AMD fix it for the next six months ... for *free*
... sounds reasonable

LMAO!! Ok, ok. I wasn't 100% serious about that last. Definitely get the 640GTS especially if you know you'll be upgrading your monitor to something that supports higher resolutions. And, for peace of mind.

Oh, and the looking down the nose thing? You're probably right, but it's just at the hardware, not the people who use them. Just to be clear on that.

thanks! ... and cool!!

... and i talked my potential buyer into getting a new 7800GS instead
--so i am keeping my x1950p ... for now

I can see why you're itching to upgrade; your system isn't really balanced. I would suggest getting a better display, then maybe a graphics card if you're having trouble at 1920x1200. :light:

*edit* There's a 37" Westinghouse on sale at Costco.com. I can't get one cuz they won't ship to Canada. It's one of the *ONLY* HDTVs that will let you hook up a PC to it at 1920x1080.

my system is totally balanced for 14x9 ... and i will *never* get a monitor larger than 16x10 ... probably the 20.1 inch screen as i sit too close ... i had a 27" years ago that drove me nuts trying to find the right distance ... so

upgrading my GPU gives me an excuse to upgrade to a 2nd monitor ... my 14x9 becoming the secondary one

logical now?

and since a brand new AGP x1950p/512M costs $196 from the 'Egg ... i need to price mine around $170 ... cheaper than that, and i will just hold onto it for another few months ... and this monitor will "serve" ... for now

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: apoppin
my system is totally balanced for 14x9 ... and i will *never* get a monitor larger than 16x10 ... probably the 20.1 inch screen as i sit too close ... i had a 27" years ago that drove me nuts trying to find the right distance ... so

upgrading my GPU gives me an excuse to upgrade to a 2nd monitor ... my 14x9 becoming the secondary one

logical now?

and since a brand new AGP x1950p/512M costs $196 from the 'Egg ... i need to price mine around $170 ... cheaper than that, and i will just hold onto it for another few months ... and this monitor will "serve" ... for now

Your system is unbalanced in that your CPU can generate more polygons than your GPU can process.

I know what you mean with the huge old 4:3 monitors, but with a widescreen it fills your periphery. Trust me, a 2405/7 is pure gaming bliss. I would get a better display before you upgrade anything else! Your current display *will* make a great secondary monitor. Do you even have an HDTV yet? The Westy would kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

 

[Bateluer]

Their NWN2 numbers are entirely bogus.

My X1900XT gets almost double what their X1950XT gets, and out performs their 2900XT. I don't know what they did to benchmark, but I haven't had fps that low since the 1.01 patch. After 1.03 its ran around 40(inside, 35 or so outside) at 1680x1050 with everything maxed except AA.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: apoppin
my system is totally balanced for 14x9 ... and i will *never* get a monitor larger than 16x10 ... probably the 20.1 inch screen as i sit too close ... i had a 27" years ago that drove me nuts trying to find the right distance ... so

upgrading my GPU gives me an excuse to upgrade to a 2nd monitor ... my 14x9 becoming the secondary one

logical now?

and since a brand new AGP x1950p/512M costs $196 from the 'Egg ... i need to price mine around $170 ... cheaper than that, and i will just hold onto it for another few months ... and this monitor will "serve" ... for now

Your system is unbalanced in that your CPU can generate more polygons than your GPU can process.

I know what you mean with the huge old 4:3 monitors, but with a widescreen it fills your periphery. Trust me, a 2405/7 is pure gaming bliss. I would get a better display before you upgrade anything else! Your current display *will* make a great secondary monitor. Do you even have an HDTV yet? The Westy would kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

i wouldn't say my GPU is limiting my CPU on any games i play ... certainly not at 14x9 ....

what do i want HDTV for? ... i don't ever watch tv ... or movies ...

i had some very nice monitors i compared ... the best size for me is 20" ... with a 2nd 19"display ... 24" would be too big ... trust me

and i can wait till the next gen of monitors if i want ... i am just not impressed with LCD [period]

 

[soybeast]

Apoppin, is English your native language?

This is probably one of the few times I'll bash someone on these forums, but man I must say reading your posts gives me a serious headache. There's something about your decent, but sometimes incorrect grammar combining with all those symbols and ellipses you like to use that just make my head hurt.

I just wanted to get that off my chest.

 

[SickBeast]

apoppin: DX10 is coming so you're going to have to upgrade anyways. I guess you can afford to wait 6 more months if you want.

I'm sure you could run with more AA and stuff on an 8800.

It's like the current 9700pro...it's 'future proof' IMO.

*edit* Your English is perfect! I love the emoticons!

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: soybeast
Apoppin, is English your native language?

This is probably one of the few times I'll bash someone on these forums, but man I must say reading your posts gives me a serious headache. There's something about your decent, but sometimes incorrect grammar combining with all those symbols and ellipses you like to use that just make my head hurt.

I just wanted to get that off my chest.

Yeah, a number of people have addressed this concern to him, nothing has changed.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: soybeast
Apoppin, is English your native language?

This is probably one of the few times I'll bash someone on these forums, but man I must say reading your posts gives me a serious headache. There's something about your decent, but sometimes incorrect grammar combining with all those symbols and ellipses you like to use that just make my head hurt.

I just wanted to get that off my chest.

Yeah, a number of people have addressed this concern to him, nothing has changed.

Frankly it's none of your 'concern' ... He doesn't give a crap what you think ... that's all

You don't like the lack of style ? ... too bad .. just pass it by ... i feel free to usually ignore your boring and worthless self-opinionated posts.

 

[smthmlk]

Originally posted by: yacoub
no one got my Van Halen reference

i got it I definitely prefer the LIVE:RHRN version to the original, though.

cmon, it's everything!

Originally posted by: soybeast
This is probably one of the few times I'll bash someone on these forums, but man I must say reading your posts gives me a serious headache. There's something about your decent, but sometimes incorrect grammar combining with all those symbols and ellipses you like to use that just make my head hurt.

haha yeah, I just stopped reading his posts.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: soybeast
Apoppin, is English your native language?

This is probably one of the few times I'll bash someone on these forums, but man I must say reading your posts gives me a serious headache. There's something about your decent, but sometimes incorrect grammar combining with all those symbols and ellipses you like to use that just make my head hurt.

I just wanted to get that off my chest.

Yeah, a number of people have addressed this concern to him, nothing has changed.

Although having a constructive discussion with apoppin is great, he has to realise these are forums. Writing posts should be well thought of, grammar checked etc.

Im sorry to say but apoppin, your style seems like your trying to "chat" through posts.

Don't just ignore people with these concerns. Thats just pure ignorance. Why not just change your style of writing? aren't you old enough to do so anyway? that way your posts will be met with more respect.

Just my opinion though, and yes dont tell me to stick it up my #$%@

If i started to write posts as if i was chatting, i would be quite frankly be worse than you in that respect.