Xbox Series X

[jpiniero]

But I still don't get how MS is banking on people buying an XSX to play 360 and X1 games on gamepass.

Gamepass kind of solidifies it. They want the subscription revenue, they don't want you to buy the XSX if they can still get the subscription money out of you if you stick with the One. Bold strategy for sure.

Lockhart will be what they will push for people who don't already own a One.

 

[quikah]

I read last week too that MS quietly stopped selling 1yr Xbox Live subscriptions. The speculation is that they are slowly going to try and get rid of it and make people pay for their subscription service that includes gamepass and live together. I am completely out on this infrastructure personally.

This is 2 sided rumor. One side is they are going to get rid of Gold and make multiplayer free. The other side is basically raising price on Gold by forcing Ultimate sub. I don't see how they think raising price on Gold is a winning strategy given their 3rd place status, so I put more weight in the Gold will ultimately become free or multiplayer will no longer require Gold (at which point Gold would be discontinued as there would be no point in it).

Since ultimate includes PC, Console and Gold subs I think we should know definitively in ~september once Xcloud is officially released as part of Ultimate. I would guess they replace the Gold sub with Xcloud in the Ultimate plan.

But who knows, they have made many dumb decisions before...

 

[purbeast0]

This is 2 sided rumor. One side is they are going to get rid of Gold and make multiplayer free. The other side is basically raising price on Gold by forcing Ultimate sub. I don't see how they think raising price on Gold is a winning strategy given their 3rd place status, so I put more weight in the Gold will ultimately become free or multiplayer will no longer require Gold (at which point Gold would be discontinued as there would be no point in it).

Since ultimate includes PC, Console and Gold subs I think we should know definitively in ~september once Xcloud is officially released as part of Ultimate. I would guess they replace the Gold sub with Xcloud in the Ultimate plan.

But who knows, they have made many dumb decisions before...

Multiplayer will not be free for sure. In their game showcase the other day it says Crossfire required Xbox Live to play multiplayer down in the corner. It was worded really stupid though saying something like "Crossfire multiplayer is free (requires Xbox Live)" so it's not really free. I'm thinking your second side of it is more realistic and trying to force people to do the ultimate thing or something more expensive. I am no marketing genius but I've been in pretty much every console generation since SNES pretty hardcore and have no clue WTF Microsoft is trying to do this time around and just see the XSX doing really bad with what is known right now.

If consoles ever fully become "gaming as a service" I will 100% be out.

 

[LikeLinus]

Multiplayer will not be free for sure. In their game showcase the other day it says Crossfire required Xbox Live to play multiplayer down in the corner. It was worded really stupid though saying something like "Crossfire multiplayer is free (requires Xbox Live)" so it's not really free. I'm thinking your second side of it is more realistic and trying to force people to do the ultimate thing or something more expensive. I am no marketing genius but I've been in pretty much every console generation since SNES pretty hardcore and have no clue WTF Microsoft is trying to do this time around and just see the XSX doing really bad with what is known right now.

If consoles ever fully become "gaming as a service" I will 100% be out.

Actually, to me, that reads like maybe they will make Xbox Live Free. They have to say "requires xbox live" because you need an account to use Xbox Live. You can't just start using Xbox Live without adding it to your account or signing up for it. Notice that it didn't say "GOLD"? It's hard to tell long term, but we shall see.

Also, right now they have a $1 for Xbox Game Pass Ultimate deal. The kicker is that it will upgrade your current Xbox Live Gold membership's remaining months for up to 36 months! So I added 36 months to my Xbox Live Gold account for $57 a year. Then upgraded to Xbox Game Pass Ultimate for $1 for 3 full years. So now my membership doesn't run out until October 2023 for only $180. Compared to the Ultimate pass that would have cost $540 for the same period of time.

 

[cmdrdredd]

So, does this mean I get FM6 on Windows?
Or does it mean games after a certain date?

Day and date release for first party titles on both PC and Xbox. If you buy it for one you get it on the other when you purchase from the digital store. I’m not sure when this started but I know you can get forza 7 and horizon 3 and 4 on there.

 

[cmdrdredd]

?? They should cancel Gamepass and start charging $80 for games to regain respect... I guess you are really impressed by 2k who is charging $70 for PS5/XSX version of their games?

I don't understand this attitude, more games for less $, sounds good to me.



FM6? Forza Motosport 6? That was never released on Windows. They have a F2P version on windows now. Or are you talking about a different game?

Generally it is new games, but they sometimes bring older games to gamepass like Halo and Gears.

The perception I have is that Microsoft lacks confidence in their games and as a result is giving them away cheap. (Their first party titles have all sucked over the life of the Xbox one anyway IMO). I’m saying that if you make a game worth buying, it will sell and you don’t have to give it away. This has been proven time and again. Not every game is worth $60 but it has been proven that a $60 price point isn’t a deterrent for getting good sales of a title.

Also they were taking about nba2k, one game, that may be $10 more than current pricing. Not $20 more. What extras will that come with that the same title didn’t have last year? One article I read said it’s possible that they drop certain micro transactions and offer more updates on the game over the course of time instead and raise the base price.

I can’t see any defense for Microsoft though because their games are trash, they have no xbox exclusives, and they lack confidence in their brand at the moment. I’m saying this hurts the perception of the Xbox console so it gives me no incentive to be interested, at all. Despite what you or I may think about Nintendo’s first party pricing, they know they will still sell and they do.

 

[LikeLinus]

The perception I have is that Microsoft lacks confidence in their games and as a result is giving them away cheap. (Their first party titles have all sucked over the life of the Xbox one anyway IMO). I’m saying that if you make a game worth buying, it will sell and you don’t have to give it away. This has been proven time and again. Not every game is worth $60 but it has been proven that a $60 price point isn’t a deterrent for getting good sales of a title.

So, do you feel the same about Netflix, Hulu, HBOMax, Apple+ and all of the streaming services? What about Gamefly (since 2002)? You say it's been proven time and time again, but the model Microsoft is following is a monthly feel with access to a large library of content. I would disagree completely and say this model has been proven to work very successfully.

 

[purbeast0]

I would be shocked if gaming

So, do you feel the same about Netflix, Hulu, HBOMax, Apple+ and all of the streaming services? What about Gamefly (since 2002)? You say it's been proven time and time again, but the model Microsoft is following is a monthly feel with access to a large library of content. I would disagree completely and say this model has been proven to work very successfully.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Movies/tv and games are not comparable. They are not consumed the same at all.

 

[LikeLinus]

I would be shocked if gaming

You are comparing apples to oranges. Movies/tv and games are not comparable. They are not consumed the same at all.

I realize that, but I also mentioned Gamefly. It's a game rental service that cost a monthly fee. It has been in business since 2002. But I'm talking about the rental/streaming model in general.

 

[quikah]

I can’t see any defense for Microsoft though because their games are trash, they have no xbox exclusives, and they lack confidence in their brand at the moment. I’m saying this hurts the perception of the Xbox console so it gives me no incentive to be interested, at all. Despite what you or I may think about Nintendo’s first party pricing, they know they will still sell and they do.

If you think their games are trash then why do you care how they plan to fund it? Do you think using a traditional model would make you think they are trying at least? They did that for 5 year this generation and it didn't work. No sense in doing the same thing over and over if it doesn't work.

Also it is unfortunate that you dismiss the entire Xbox lineup as there are some excellent games there, like Ori, Cuphead, and Forza Horizon. Gears 5 is finally decent again also IMO (never liked the Gears MP, so I don't consider that part). State of Decay 2 is fun to me, but certainly has a lot of issues. Halo 5 sucked. Halo Infinite looks poor, but at least it seems to play like classic Halo which is what they screwed up in 5. I am hopeful that they can fix up the graphics a bit and play some very nice looking old school Halo.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Movies/tv and games are not comparable. They are not consumed the same at all.

I disagree, they are pretty much the same to me. Regardless the point is that a subscription model does not immediately mean trash.

 

[purbeast0]

I disagree, they are pretty much the same to me. Regardless the point is that a subscription model does not immediately mean trash.

There is nothing to disagree about. You are factually wrong.

They are not consumed the same way at all and are completely different markets.

 

[LikeLinus]

Please explain how the word subscription model is "factually" wrong? Both services charge a monthly fee to access their content. It's called a subscription.

Sorry bud, but you are the one that is factually wrong. Also, they actually are consumed the same way. On a TV using an internet connection via a paid monthly service. The medium may be different, but that doesn't mean the model isn't the same. Same delivery system and consumed the same way. Get a clue, please.

 

[purbeast0]

Please explain how the word subscription model is "factually" wrong? Both services charge a monthly fee to access their content. It's called a subscription.

Sorry bud, but you are the one that is factually wrong. Also, they actually are consumed the same way. On a TV using an internet connection via a paid monthly service. The medium may be different, but that doesn't mean the model isn't the same. Same delivery system and consumed the same way. Get a clue, please.

I'm referring to the first part of what I quoted not the second. That is the part I was saying he's factually wrong about when he claimed it's not apples to oranges.

And just because something is on a TV doesn't mean they are consumed the same way. That is like saying being on these forums is the same as watching Saving Private Ryan.

They are completely different markets and consumed differently.

1. Gaming is interactive, movies are not.
2. Games (typically) last 10+ hours, movies (typically) last ~2 hours.
3. Games primary market is purchasing, movies primary market is "rental".
4. Games (typically) cost $60 brand new, movies cost (typically) $20.

Apples to oranges.

 

[LikeLinus]

I'm referring to the first part of what I quoted not the second. That is the part I was saying he's factually wrong about when he claimed it's not apples to oranges.

And just because something is on a TV doesn't mean they are consumed the same way. That is like saying being on these forums is the same as watching Saving Private Ryan.

They are completely different markets and consumed differently.

1. Gaming is interactive, movies are not.
2. Games (typically) last 10+ hours, movies (typically) last ~2 hours.
3. Games primary market is purchasing, movies primary market is "rental".
4. Games (typically) cost $60 brand new, movies cost (typically) $20.

Apples to oranges.

Except for the fact you are limited streaming services to movies. You realize all these services have shows? Which are generally anywhere from 8-13+ episodes.

Plus, I don't feel it's apples to oranges either. It's the subscription model that is identical. It has been sufficiently proven that streaming services are popular and work. You also fail to even reply anything about Gamefly, which is a rental service for games.

There is a reason why Google, Valve, EA, Ubisoft, Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft are all moving this direction or already have services up and running with a subscription based model. But I guess they are all wrong? That's why it's all a bit silly for that other poster to be singling out Microsoft and saying they aren't confident with their games. Laughable because everyone is moving to that direction.

 

[purbeast0]

Except for the fact you are limited streaming services to movies. You realize all these services have shows? Which are generally anywhere from 8-13+ episodes.

Plus, I don't feel it's apples to oranges either. It's the subscription model that is identical. It has been sufficiently proven that streaming services are popular and work. You also fail to even reply anything about Gamefly, which is a rental service for games.

There is a reason why Google, Valve, EA, Ubisoft, Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft are all moving this direction or already have services up and running with a subscription based model. But I guess they are all wrong? That's why it's all a bit silly for that other poster to be singling out Microsoft and saying they aren't confident with their games. Laughable because everyone is moving to that direction.

Gamefly isn't a "rental service for games" exclusively. That is how they started out but they haven't been JUST that for some time now, probably because it isn't sustainable. They sell games, consoles, accessories, collectibles, and also rent movies.

And I haven't even given my opinion on any of the existing gaming streaming services at all. I never said anything about them being "wrong" or anything of that nature. The whole reason I got into this discussion is because I said movies/shows aren't comparable to gaming because they are apples to oranges.

 

[LikeLinus]

Gamefly isn't a "rental service for games" exclusively. That is how they started out but they haven't been JUST that for some time now, probably because it isn't sustainable. They sell games, consoles, accessories, collectibles, and also rent movies.

And I haven't even given my opinion on any of the existing gaming streaming services at all. I never said anything about them being "wrong" or anything of that nature. The whole reason I got into this discussion is because I said movies/shows aren't comparable to gaming because they are apples to oranges.

Fair enough. I forgot you said that your reply was only to the first part of the response.

Sounds like the Gamefly model is similar to what some of these other companies are doing. They sell the hardware, accessories and the game. I used Gamefly for a brief period of time when they first started, but I wasn't aware that they have branched out. The significant difference is that Microsoft has the infrastructure already set up as far as streaming services, cloud and bandwidth. We just got Game Pass Ultimate for 3 years at $1. I know my wife and son downloaded like 10 games last night, lol. I was working on a new server in my rack, so I didn't watch them play much, but they said they liked it. We shall see what MS does long term. I really wish they would tell what they were doing before starting to pull Gold Live. Cart before horse!

 

[quikah]

They are completely different markets and consumed differently.

1. Gaming is interactive, movies are not.

That is the only point I would concede.

2. Games (typically) last 10+ hours, movies (typically) last ~2 hours.

TV shows last anywhere from 10-100+ hrs.

3. Games primary market is purchasing, movies primary market is "rental".

Before the '80s the primary market for Movies was the cinema. Things change.

4. Games (typically) cost $60 brand new, movies cost (typically) $20.

TV Series cost anywhere from $20 - $80. It costs upward of $40-$60 to bring a family to the cinema. But I don't see why it matters what the cost is for the consumer. It is just what the market will bear. At the dawn of the movie rental market a new movie on VHS cost $80+ dollars.

Again things change.

 

[purbeast0]

That is the only point I would concede.



TV shows last anywhere from 10-100+ hrs.



Before the '80s the primary market for Movies was the cinema. Things change.



TV Series cost anywhere from $20 - $80. It costs upward of $40-$60 to bring a family to the cinema. But I don't see why it matters what the cost is for the consumer. It is just what the market will bear. At the dawn of the movie rental market a new movie on VHS cost $80+ dollars.

Again things change.

The thing that is different between movies and TV shows is that TV shows are typically consumed for "free" as they air. You aren't paying $X to watch a TV show once. They are their own can of worms that aren't quite apples to apples comparisons with movies even.

I also never said things don't change of course they do.

 

[Skel]

I'm referring to the first part of what I quoted not the second. That is the part I was saying he's factually wrong about when he claimed it's not apples to oranges.

And just because something is on a TV doesn't mean they are consumed the same way. That is like saying being on these forums is the same as watching Saving Private Ryan.

They are completely different markets and consumed differently.

1. Gaming is interactive, movies are not.
2. Games (typically) last 10+ hours, movies (typically) last ~2 hours.
3. Games primary market is purchasing, movies primary market is "rental".
4. Games (typically) cost $60 brand new, movies cost (typically) $20.

Apples to oranges.

From the point of view MS is attempting with their subscription it's not apples to oranges. If anything it doesn't matter the end product if the model fits, which it does here. If anything the only reason they're consumed differently is that gaming hasn't caught up yet. The only points you've made in your list that actually apply to convo is 3. 1, 2, and 4 don't matter because if anything it would mean that people would get more value with a subscription service for games than other mediums... and music is consumed differently yet sold with the same subscription model. Which is my point, it doesn't matter what's being consumed, or how the model is the same.

As for 3.. well.. the primary market for movies shifted from the theater to the home and now to subscription services more than anything. It followed music down the subscription path, and now gaming is following it. It's not surprising as I'd guess a good chunk, if not most of gaming is now downloaded vs physical disks. Steam pretty much ended the PC physical disks, and now it looks like both MS and Sony are don't the same with the console market.

I personally am not a fan of the subscription model myself, but I can't pretend it's not the logical conclusion on where the universe it heading.

 

[purbeast0]

Fair enough. I forgot you said that your reply was only to the first part of the response.

Sounds like the Gamefly model is similar to what some of these other companies are doing. They sell the hardware, accessories and the game. I used Gamefly for a brief period of time when they first started, but I wasn't aware that they have branched out. The significant difference is that Microsoft has the infrastructure already set up as far as streaming services, cloud and bandwidth. We just got Game Pass Ultimate for 3 years at $1. I know my wife and son downloaded like 10 games last night, lol. I was working on a new server in my rack, so I didn't watch them play much, but they said they liked it. We shall see what MS does long term. I really wish they would tell what they were doing before starting to pull Gold Live. Cart before horse!

Yeah as mentioned, the Gamepass is cool for people who are new to the Xbox platform and missed out on games that were out before they entered the platform. For me personally as someone who has purchased all Xbox consoles at launch, it's completely pointless because any game on it that I wanted to play, I have already played when it was new.

I just don't see how their strategy of "buy XSX to play X1 and 360 games on our gaming service" is a good strategy. They could have something up their sleeves but from what we know now I'm just not "getting" it.

 

[Skel]

The thing that is different between movies and TV shows is that TV shows are typically consumed for "free" as they air. You aren't paying $X to watch a TV show once. They are their own can of worms that aren't quite apples to apples comparisons with movies even.

I also never said things don't change of course they do.

But you could... I've seen on the platforms that aren't only subscription models the option to buy TV episodes. Soooo again.. the end product doesn't matter when the model fits.

 

[purbeast0]

I personally am not a fan of the subscription model myself, but I can't pretend it's not the logical conclusion on where the universe it heading.

Yep and if/when that happens, I'm out of the console market. MS has already given absolutely zero reason to purchase an XSX at launch right now, and going even further down that rabbit hole would push me away completely.

 

[purbeast0]

But you could... I've seen on the platforms that aren't only subscription models the option to buy TV episodes. Soooo again.. the end product doesn't matter when the model fits.

Fair enough, you CAN do it that way, as I've seen it on demand on FIOS. But I am pretty confident that is a very very small portion of viewers that purchase episodes individually.

 

[quikah]

The thing that is different between movies and TV shows is that TV shows are typically consumed for "free" as they air. You aren't paying $X to watch a TV show once. They are their own can of worms that aren't quite apples to apples comparisons with movies even.

I also never said things don't change of course they do.

The best TV shows are only airing on subscription services, not OTA for free. I don't even remember the last "free" TV show I watched, but I can list a dozen I watched on Netflix, Amazon or HBO.

MS is trying to change the business model. I am not saying it will succeed, but I am enjoying the product of the attempt. The Xbox showcase wasn't even about XSX, it was a Gamepass show.

 

[JujuFish]

I'm not sure why you guys are shocked by Microsoft doing a subscription model. Everything that company has been doing since Satya Nadella took over has been all about recurring revenue.