Xeon64 or Opteron

[Nemesis2038]

This is my pure speculation and I have nothing to base it upon except general reading of Nocona information found around the web which isnt much to go on.

I think Intel may deliver a pretty darn good competitor to AMD Opteron on Monday. Maybe even leapfrog Opteron in performance. That is most applications. 32bit apps I think will stay in comparison to the P4 Prescott and Opteron comparisons but on the 64 bit level I think Intel may have something good.

From a lot of reading it will probably get the majority of the benchmarks and AMD will need to put out a faster Opteron or increase some cache to overtake it.

I cant see any OS advantage since Microsoft will write the OS in a generic format to support both processors and will leave out any advantages of code that the other processor does not carry. We all know how good that Wintel Alliance is. If CPUID = AMD then Wait ELSE Continue.

But I can see application performance leading to Intel in the future. You know they always come out with something like SSE64 which applications will use to enhance performance. Something AMD is proably too stupid to do with the Opteron when they were the only 64 bit x86 chip in town 3DNOW64 should have been in the AMD 939 Chips. I made that enhancement area up but Intel's SSE has added some nice benefits to its CPU's. When AMD was the only 64 bit chip they should have started doing the same. Instead they have a plain jane X86 64 extension. Nothing enhanced about it. Simply making Intel AMD64 compliant wont be enough to keep Intel from passing up AMD opteron.

AMD may take the lead with multiple CPU's but I suspect Intel will come out with a way to get past that too. Hyper transport does nothing unless you have 2 or more CPU's. I give the advantage early to AMD but favor Intel in the long run.

Benchmark programs I never trust since they are always skewed toward who donates the biggest check.
Like how benchmarks show there is no possible way an Opteron can outperform a P4 but most applications and all games perform better on an Opteron. You would never know that by the benchmarking programs out there. Scammers. Give us lots of money and our next Benchmark will favor your CPU. But people fall for that as if a benchmark actually completed a task. Benchmarking programs unless based upon real world applications are useless to me.

I like my AMD chips but I can see Intel leapfrogging AMD and AMD not innovating enough to stay ahead. Intel just has that much more pull in the community.

What might be a big surprise if Intel doesnt have a complete x86 64 extension and resorts to some sort of emulation type 64bit. However I dont think that will be the case.

In the end I hope pricing makes chips cheaper for whatever side of the fence you ride on. I ride both sides so it just means Im getting a cheaper CPU. Personally I dont care who makes the processor as long as it meets my needs and is cheap. I favor no one.

Cant wait till monday. Hoping for some good benchmarks.

Whats everyone else think?

 

[Nemesis2038]

In short I dont think Intel would announce a 64 bit cpu unless it rocked. Coming out the gates slower than AMD's Opteron would make Intel look bad. I expect more from intel first x86 64 bit cpu. Surely because I am so far dissapointed with Prescott. Maybe the Dothan team needs to give the Precott team a lesson in CPU design. Just my thoughts.

 

[clarkey01]

its bs, its just a bad copy of the k8 x86 extensions and what do you mean " and AMD not innovating enough " ,what the hell is hypertransport ? on die memory controller ? the whole idea of 64 bit extensions ?

opterons up from 2 way SMOKE xeon's, and the price/performance ratio is MORE then enough to make the jump to AMD.

 

[beyoku]

Wrong... As far as the rumors go Intel DID use a bit of emulations in its 64 process and therefore it "sucks" as quoted by some industry heads. Hypertransport does A LOT even without 2 cores That is the link they use for the processor to talk with the ram - It operates a t 2ghz. You also have enhancements to the Core itself AND ondie mem cntrl. The Opteron KILLS the Xeon pretty much all the tiime and with the xeons shared bus fof 533 or soon to be 800 it OWNS it in MP. With the opti each chip ADDS more bandwith - with the Xeon each chip has to share the same 533 data path.. LOL i own my frinds dually xeon and im pushing AMD MP's
? All the xeon is is a p4.

 

[Nemesis2038]

Hypertrasport is really for those with Dual or more chips. its not innovation unless you plan on going that route. Its a bonus for AMD for future processors because it allows easy migration to dual core manufacturing.

Lets look at intel. SSE, SSE2, SSE3, HT(Hyper Threading).
AMD 3DNOW, 3DNOW+(I Think) Then its Copies of all Intel technology from here.

SSE is a great enhancement. These are items that actually do increase performance and are needed instructions. They had the perfect opportunity to expand 3DNOW and they blew it. All they have is an expanded X86 64 bit processor that has great FPU performance. Granted they shouldnt call the next generation 3D-Now because it brands AMD as a TOY or Gaming processor and not a buisness processor.

I dont consider branch prediction a feature but basic chip enhancement. Neither do I consider pipeline depth as thats just knowing how to load your processor with the right balance so it always has data to work with.

If AMD planned on being the leader it should have done some innovating beyond X86 extensions. Whats next 32 registers instead of 16? Thats not innovation its expansion.

For all intensive purposes the following should have been or be planned to be added to future processors.
DIVX ENCODING/DECODING OR INSTRUCTIONS TO FUTHER ENHANCE THE PROCESS.
WMV9 ENCODING/DECODING OR INSTRUCTIONS TO FUTHER ENHANCE THE PROCESS.
MAYBE SOME REVISED 3D NOW CALLED SOMETHING ELSE.
MAYBE EXPAND ON SSE. I BET INTEL IS ALREADY GOT PLANNED SSE4 or SSE64.

These should have been added to Opteron 939 instead its the same CPU with non registered dimm support. Thats really a lame goal and shows they arent thinking ahead or thinking how they can 1 up Intel.

They talk about being a leader and adding features for the future way people work then why the heck didnt SEMPERON have any enhancements like this??? DIVX Code/MPEG4 is overdue in Processors!!! Heck even MPEG2 is overdue in processors. Simple things like this seperate a leader from a follower.

I fear AMD may miss the boat. Intel will release a 64 bit CPU then throw in SSE64 the software companies will capitalize on it and AMD will be following INTEL into what they started a year earlier.

I must give AMD 1 Item of innovation. A No Execute instruction that supposed to do some enhanced anti-virus/security function. BIG WHOOP!!!

You dont see this with the 2 big video card manufacturers. They are both adding thier own sets of functionality into their cards hoping to create something like Intel's SSE. ATI has their NMAP and NVIDIA has their funky programmable dohickey I cant recall the name. Both trying new things they hope will be something they force their competitor to have to liscence giving them the 1 Up. AMD should do the same instead of WE BUILT A 64 BIT X86 CPU!!! WOOHOO. Then do nothing more than try to make it faster and faster.

Video Cards is a game of Gladiators battling to beat each other silly.
Processors are David vs Goliath where once David knock out Goliath it thinks it will stay down. Instead Goliath will get up and Pummel David because he sat back victorious over a small win.

 

[MDE]

Dude, take this flamebait thread and go somewhere else.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Nemesis2038
Hypertrasport is really for those with Dual or more chips. its not innovation unless you plan on going that route. Its a bonus for AMD for future processors because it allows easy migration to dual core manufacturing.

Sounds like they are planning on going that route.

Lets look at intel. SSE, SSE2, SSE3, HT(Hyper Threading).

I don't think Intel developed SMT.

For all intensive purposes the following should have been or be planned to be added to future processors.
DIVX ENCODING/DECODING OR INSTRUCTIONS TO FUTHER ENHANCE THE PROCESS.

Not necessary in business desktops. And really, why would you need this on die? Just get a hardware encoder/decoder.

WMV9 ENCODING/DECODING OR INSTRUCTIONS TO FUTHER ENHANCE THE PROCESS.

Again, not a big deal for the business market.

MAYBE SOME REVISED 3D NOW CALLED SOMETHING ELSE.

Because SSE3 is such a big hit.

MAYBE EXPAND ON SSE. I BET INTEL IS ALREADY GOT PLANNED SSE4 or SSE64.

SSE is Intel's baby. AMD shouldn't mess with it much, they should keep compatibility.

These should have been added to Opteron 939 instead its the same CPU with non registered dimm support. Thats really a lame goal and shows they arent thinking ahead or thinking how they can 1 up Intel.

Did the opteron get released on 939? I thought it was 940 only...

They talk about being a leader and adding features for the future way people work then why the heck didnt SEMPERON have any enhancements like this??? DIVX Code/MPEG4 is overdue in Processors!!! Heck even MPEG2 is overdue in processors. Simple things like this seperate a leader from a follower.

DIVX and MPEG4 also have patent issues, I believe.

I must give AMD 1 Item of innovation. A No Execute instruction that supposed to do some enhanced anti-virus/security function. BIG WHOOP!!!

First of all, this is quite possibly the best feature in the AMD64 arch. I can't see buying another processor that doesn't have NX (and no matter what they say, it isn't an anti-virus technology ). Second, they didn't invent it.

You dont see this with the 2 big video card manufacturers. They are both adding thier own sets of functionality into their cards hoping to create something like Intel's SSE.

Like DirectX 9?

ATI has their NMAP

? nmap is for network security... Unless this is another case of ignoring established technologies with a name. (damn you daemon tools!)

Video Cards is a game of Gladiators battling to beat each other silly.
Processors are David vs Goliath where once David knock out Goliath it thinks it will stay down. Instead Goliath will get up and Pummel David because he sat back victorious over a small win.

AMD has a trick or two in the wings.

 

[clarkey01]

Face facts, most customers buy more then one CPU, the more popular choices are duel or 4 way, 8 way systems. They get smoked by opteron, face it.


beyoku was right "Wrong... As far as the rumors go Intel DID use a bit of emulations in its 64 process and therefore it "sucks" as quoted by some industry heads" I heard that too.

To be fair, the innovations in A64 compared to Prescott and current xeons are worthwhile, most benchmarks favour A64/K8 then presshot and xeon. Intel underestimated AMD and are no scraping to stick a duel core Prescott together (why they don?t do this with a Pentium M is beyond me)

 

[n0cmonkey]

The hyper threading helps in the duels. Ever seen a knight without a squire? It's not a pretty sight.

 

[LTC8K6]

How did the opteron go from 2X-4x faster than a p4 in your earlier posts to slower than a new xeon so quickly, nemesis?

 

[Zebo]

I thought it was 8-16X faster at encoding.

 

[ebaycj]

FAN

 

[ebaycj]

BOI

 

[ebaycj]

Besides, Intel won't have an on-die memory controller, so it won't scale nearly as well as opteron. That is a HUGE advantage for AMD.

 

[Ardrid]

I registered just to address Nemisis' post. You need to do some serious research before you start spouting off comments. First off, HT (HyperTransport) is used for more than just SMP setups. HT is effectively the I/O link of the entire system. It's what the processor uses to talk to the chipset, buses, etc. However, it truly shines when it's talking to another processor because each processor has its own bandwidth. That means total system bandwidth increases as you add more processors, unlike the Xeon and Itanium. I encourage you to read up.

Secondly, Intel did not, I repeat, did not invent HT (Hyper-Threading). SMT, as it's rightfully called, has been in existence and used long before Intel decided to "create" it. You might also be surprised to know that 3DNow was in existence before SSE. That being said, it was Intel who stole AMD's idea, much like they're doing with AMD64. And in case you didn't know, 3DNow was expanded to include SSE2 with SSE3 to follow. Including separate instruction sets would be pointless because there's little chance of them being adopted. And the business world could care less about the marketing names AMD/Intel give their technology. You think ppl are complaining about how ridiculous NetBurst is?

Expansion is innovation in this case. AMD took an old architecture and extended it, while maintaining complete compatibility. They didn't try to revolutionize the entire ISA and shove it down the industry's throat (*cough* IA-64 *cough*). Rather than being foolish, they did what was logical. Let's not forget the on-die memory controller as well, arguably one of the greatest features brought to the desktop arena. I've already touched on the multimedia instructions, so I won't do that again. Moreover, if you've been paying attention to the video card scene recently, you'd realize that both NVIDIA and ATI are developing methods to completely take the stress of encoding/decoding off the CPU and place it on the GPU. That being said, such instructions are unnecessary. As to the Opteron 939, it doesn't exist. Extra features will come when AMD debuts their 90nm processors.

And finally, AMD "missing the boat". Not happening because Intel already missed it. Look how long it took for them to swallow their pride. Now, add to that the fact that ppl in the industry are saying Nocona's 64-bit performance sucks. It's not too hard to see why AMD is the leader right now. Every Tier 1 OEM is behind AMD save Dell, and you can count on them joining sooner as opposed to later. And vid card manufacturers aren't doing anything like what you suggested. Almost every feature they create is an open standard (3Dc, MXM, Axiom, etc.). The only thing that's manufacturer specific is the architecture.

I'll end with this. AMD has been the undisputed leader for the past year and they look to continue that trend for the next 18 months or so. They've forced Intel to adopt AMD64, a model number system, and completely revamp their roadmap, effectively killing the P4 and NetBurst. Goliath may not be down but he's damn sure reeling.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: Ardrid
I registered just to address Nemisis' post. You need to do some serious research before you start spouting off comments. First off, HT (HyperTransport) is used for more than just SMP setups. HT is effectively the I/O link of the entire system. It's what the processor uses to talk to the chipset, buses, etc. However, it truly shines when it's talking to another processor because each processor has its own bandwidth. That means total system bandwidth increases as you add more processors, unlike the Xeon and Itanium. I encourage you to read up.

Secondly, Intel did not, I repeat, did not invent HT (Hyper-Threading). SMT, as it's rightfully called, has been in existence and used long before Intel decided to "create" it. You might also be surprised to know that 3DNow was in existence before SSE. That being said, it was Intel who stole AMD's idea, much like they're doing with AMD64. And in case you didn't know, 3DNow was expanded to include SSE2 with SSE3 to follow. Including separate instruction sets would be pointless because there's little chance of them being adopted. And the business world could care less about the marketing names AMD/Intel give their technology. You think ppl are complaining about how ridiculous NetBurst is?

Expansion is innovation in this case. AMD took an old architecture and extended it, while maintaining complete compatibility. They didn't try to revolutionize the entire ISA and shove it down the industry's throat (*cough* IA-64 *cough*). Rather than being foolish, they did what was logical. Let's not forget the on-die memory controller as well, arguably one of the greatest features brought to the desktop arena. I've already touched on the multimedia instructions, so I won't do that again. Moreover, if you've been paying attention to the video card scene recently, you'd realize that both NVIDIA and ATI are developing methods to completely take the stress of encoding/decoding off the CPU and place it on the GPU. That being said, such instructions are unnecessary. As to the Opteron 939, it doesn't exist. Extra features will come when AMD debuts their 90nm processors.

And finally, AMD "missing the boat". Not happening because Intel already missed it. Look how long it took for them to swallow their pride. Now, add to that the fact that ppl in the industry are saying Nocona's 64-bit performance sucks. It's not too hard to see why AMD is the leader right now. Every Tier 1 OEM is behind AMD save Dell, and you can count on them joining sooner as opposed to later. And vid card manufacturers aren't doing anything like what you suggested. Almost every feature they create is an open standard (3Dc, MXM, Axiom, etc.). The only thing that's manufacturer specific is the architecture.

I'll end with this. AMD has been the undisputed leader for the past year and they look to continue that trend for the next 18 months or so. They've forced Intel to adopt AMD64, a model number system, and completely revamp their roadmap, effectively killing the P4 and NetBurst. Goliath may not be down but he's damn sure reeling.

oh nemesis, i believe you've just had your ass handed to you, in a gift-wrapped box

 

[Nemesis2038]

Not so 3DNOW is a rip off of MMX. MMX existed before 3D NOW.

Also some of you need to read my first sentence in the beginning of the thread.
This is my pure speculation and I have nothing to base it upon except general reading of Nocona information found around the web which isnt much to go on.

This isnt to start a war of any sort. Get over it. In fact a lot of you need to stop being on one side of the fence or another. You should buy the best processor for the price wether it be from Intel or AMD. AMD and Intel's main goal should be to sell the best processor for the best price. I am happy the two of them are fighting it out so that we as consumers get cheaper faster chips. I have no alliance or favor neither manufacturer. Neither should you. You should buy the best processor you can afford not a brand name because you like david or goliath. These are not biblical times. To win my dollars deliver me the best processor that does the job the best.

Yes my Opteron is still 2-3Times faster at specific applications than my P4. But we are talking about the Xeon64 not the P4. I truely embrace the 64 bit side as there are many advantages for the things I do with it that 32 bit simply cannot handle. I explained what I was doing and how I got my results. If you still dont understand it then your the same type person who cannot understand how you can record one channel while watching another type people in my young days working at radio shack.

Expansion is Invention but its not INNOVATION? I would like to see AMD INNOVATE more and Take a much more responsible lead in that arena. I dont think SSE shoved anything down anyone throat. Intel said here are some additional instructions which will give you a performance boost. Either use them or use the standard x86 instruction base. Its up to you.

Itanium is actually a brilliant CPU design. Hence it was a chance as it did not support backwards compatibility and was a radical change. Had AMD opteron sucked we would all be moving toward Itanium at some point. The Itanium is Intel attempting to drop the things that hold back x86 architecture. Just like Microsoft would like to abandon 16 bit application support. Intel would like to abandon 8, 16, and 32bit support. But the X86 still contains these things which hold it back from being a bit faster. Xeons had 16 bit support removed and its allowed for a speed increase, Transistor count decrease, and thus heat and power decrease. This is smart. You cant blame Intel for the Itanium. I commend the Itanium team its just that AMD delivered a great 64bit x86 cpu.

Multimedia is Key and processors will only be found in computers if they continue to leave out DIVX/MPEG2/4/WMV9 If the cpu expanded on these Items it would open the CPU up to different markets other than a box in the office. Most will understand this more as HDTV becomes more mainstream. I believe these are items not neccessary for other chips like the graphics card to handle. There are a lot of reasons to implement them into the CPU. Mainly so that Integrated motherboards which users dont need an NVIDIA or ATI card can use. The majority of PC sales are to not Include add on video cards. Also to expand the cpu beyond the PC market.

I think Ardrid makes some good points. Thats what Forums are about exchanging information but a lot of you look at it as battlegrounds. What war are you trying to win? Why are you figting for Intel or AMD. They should be fighting for you and your dollars.

So intel has to adopt AMD 64 its no different than AMD Accepting MMX, MMX+, SSE, SSE2, SSE3. Yup I forgot MMX something else AMD had to implement because it was Innovative.

So let me state this because I have no bias. Both AMD and INTEL make great CPU's. Each does something better than the other. Much like I have seen the comparison of the Truck vs the Dragster and moving. You either want to move a lot in one shot or make a lot of fast little trips. You decide what CPU is best for you. But for gods sake quite telling people thier P4 or Amd Athlon sucks because it doesnt. If the CPU does what they hope to do then its great because its doing what is was meant to do. And 500FPS doesnt make you a better gamer if you arse is wiped up by a guy only playing at 60FPS.

I would like to see the following. AMD come up with some more fresh ideas to enhance the 64bit experience with some more multimedia integration. I would like Intel to recosider the Prescott and die shrink the P4 instead. I dont see deeper pipelines are whats needed for 4.x GHZ and above. Time will tell.

I would also like to see some lower powered fanless CPU's for Multimedia applications. Think guys.

Some of you take this stuff too seriously that I wonder if you would even game with a guy who has a different CPU or opinion about a manufacturer. Thats really lame and your missing out on something called LIFE.

 

[srg]

Hi Nemesis2038

Would you consider Hyperthreading an innovation??

srg

 

[LTC8K6]

Yes my Opteron is still 2-3Times faster at specific applications than my P4

Got anything to back this up yet? What happened to 4X?

 

[clarkey01]

?Itanium is actually a brilliant CPU design?

Yeah?????Sold a lot of course??A software company just announced they?v stop supporting it


?So intel has to adopt AMD 64 it?s no different than AMD Accepting MMX, MMX+, SSE, SSE2, SSE3. Yup I forgot MMX something else AMD had to implement because it was Innovative.?

AMD accepted and embraced these because there are useful instruction sets, but they don?t claim to be innovating there CPU?S with these features like Intel make on as Hyperthreading is getting 2 CPU?S for 1. MMX, MMX+, SSE, SSE2, SSE3. are and will be quite common in a lot of programs so it would be a good idea to have them rather just to say ?F8ck that? we don?t wanna be scene to be a copy cat. Obviously Intel don?t mind since they have a cross licence.

Also Intel said 64 bit compatible chips wouldn?t be needed till 08/09 in interviews from sources, like trying to dampen sales of opteron and a64 ( while trying to reverse engineer there AMD64 at the same time behind closed doors). Then they changed their minds ? Er well if the market demands it? and come feb of this year ? Yeah, um, yeah 64-bit extensions everyone tada?

?I would like to see the following. AMD come up with some more fresh ideas to enhance the 64bit experience with some more multimedia integration. I would like Intel to recosider the Prescott and die shrink the P4 instead. I dont see deeper pipelines are whats needed for 4.x GHZ and above. Time will tell.?

Why what is AMD64 missing ? shouldn?t Intel be the ones ?enhancing? their extensions since industry sources said it sucked. Prescott is the P4, its under the same name, why shrink the die ? down to what 65 nm ? would have been a better idea to tweak and shrink down the Northwood and add the extra 512 cache? What innovations have Intel done recently except rise Mhz ? and put the pins on a motherboard
instead of the CPU ? ?

? Some of you take this stuff too seriously that I wonder if you would even game with a guy who has a different CPU or opinion about a manufacturer. Thats really lame and your missing out on something called LIFE.?

Not much of an insult or logical response nor helps get your opinions across , you?d be respected more if you haven?t of put that in their.

 

[Nemesis2038]

LTC8K6
Wrong Thread and Yes I do. There is an NDA involved. I fear the NDA I signed more than getting a few brownie points with a benchmark comparison. I also enjoy being a beta tester. Even if I left the names off I would then be bombarded with What program. If I get my hands on a Xeon64 I will state how well it does in comparison to the Opteron. I expect the Xeon64 to be even faster than Opteron because of the deeper pipelines and the 3.6Ghz possibility. I would also love to test with dual's too. Have patience and in a few months you will see. Anyone else interested in Beta Testing new stuff should sign up at www.centercode.com. Microsoft and a few other places also offer beta testing opportunities as well. I get to beta test a lot of stuff. One that I am disspointed in is Windows Longhorn. I find it annoys me more than anything else. Linux has a real chance of catching up to windows because there isnt much innovation occuring any more. (Thats My Opinion Linux People and I am entitled to it. despite how dumb you may think that statement is.)

Yes Hyperthreading is Innovation despite it having some positive and some negative effects.
HyperTransport is Innovation but only for those with more than 1 CPU.

I would be really dissapointed if AMD only did dual core to the next chip without throwing something more into the mix. Granted I think Dual Core on the existing socket is really cool and INNOVATIVE but there will still be a lot of people out there with no need to have dual cores on a single chip. I suspect the Athon64 single core will be the Duron line 1-2 years from now.

What I believe is that they should throw in some more features for programmers and if those programmers choose to use the features outside the X86 64bit instructions then more power to the programmers. Otehrwise its down to who can make a better X86 64 bit CPU.

Maybe they should also look to ATI and NVIDIA about putting a Graphics chip right on the CPU core as well. Why not? XBOX2 looks like it might do something along that line maybe not.

What it boils down to is the CPU's are getting so incredibly fast that they need to stop thinking a CPU does this and only this. Instead they should look to a CPU is now and entire PC on a chip and you only need to add power. Something different.

Like looking at my P4 playing UT2004 compared to my AMD32 machine playing UT2004 slightly slower but still above 60FPS. You cant tell the difference between the two. Visually the game is the same. There is no advantage with either. The difference is what it cost to make. The job each of them does when not gaming is explicit to what they do best. The AMD32 is also a HDTV PVR Its not a good encoder for the codec I use. The P4 Used to do the Video Conversion now it does all the burning and some encoding. Hardly what it does best but still good. The AMD64 Does all the HDTV video Encoding. When not coding were gaming with friends. They dont care unless I am winning then they blame my AMD 64 as being faster until I jump to the P4 and still whoop their butts. Then lack of coffee is to blame.

notice my thread topic is not AMD vs INTEL. Its Xeon64 or Opteron. I will say it again. There are some things I expect the Intel Chip to do better and there are things I expect the AMD to do better. Just wanted to hear what other have to say and what their thoughts are. There are some really good people way more technical than me in here and I appreciate what they have to add. Then there are some that are so hung up on AMD or INTEL that it baffles me to why they bother posting because they only annoy others. you should feel good about getting a new PC or Proc and not be put down by someone else who tries to make you feel dumb for buying the competitor over what they bought.

Do you buy gas at the best gas for the best price or do you buy only Mobile or Shell because its not blended and much better gas to you? I buy the Cheapest Highest Octane Gas at only brand name places. If I can get brand name for a few cents less down the road thats where I get it.

Were way off topic now.

AMD think Beyond x86 or expect to be beaten.

Intel Whats with the Prescott. Shrink the P4 instead. I need less heat and higher speed. Prescott all you want with deeper pipelines as I dont think it will kick in until 4Ghz plus.

And I look forward to competition with Xeon64 and Opteron Bring the 64 bit prices down.

 

[bobbyk]

one thing is quite certain. Amd probably does have the better chip. Currently intel has SLIGHTLY better chipsets. I do not think that will last long, but that is where it stands now.

 

[Nemesis2038]

If an Itanium were to be able to run at 3Ghz it would smoke and Opteron. Unfortunatly for Intel at Itaniums current speed the Opteron can outrun it now. Like I said it was a gamble for Intel and unfortunatly AMD played a bigger hand. AMD had COST, UPGRADABILITY FROM EXITING, EVENTUALLY SPEED.

How many times in the past has AMD promised incredible things only to be delayed and not deliver top performance. I think 90% of the life of the K6 did that. The Athon originally was off to a big win outpacing Intel to the 1Gig mark but fell quickly when they didnt keep up the pace. Even the Opteron was delayed nearly a year. Granted they are doing much better now but its still not enough. AMD is notrious for jumping ahead only to have Intel come back bigger stronger and faster. You have to run it paranoid that the shark wont catch you because once you miss a stroke Intel will be there to tear aleg off cutting your swimming speed down. Before AMD knows it Intel will tear that second leg off and your going no where. Then AMD will discover the motor and swim past the shark only to realize the shark has friends everywhere and despite your speed increase there is a shark every direction you turn.

I wish AMD luck and continued success. Intel needs AMD to be succesfull or Intel is a monopoly. This AMD spurt is a good thing for Intel. Much like Linux is good for Microsoft without it Microsoft is a Monopoly. Co existance is good for everyone. Especially the Consumer.

I am also not looking for respect. I get respect from the wife, kids, and Co-Workers thats all I need and then some.

I think whatever is added to Prescott under the hood is the problem with Prescotts heat issues. I suspect if they die shrink the P4 they will get a cooler, cheaper, faster, chip. Especially since they wont enable the 64 bit extensions on Prescott. Then its a 32 bit CPU the extra in there is just baggage holding the chip back.

In general 64 bit doesnt add much unless you get into enterprise applications and some of the higher end stuff like when I am doing HDTV or Decrypting. Compression helps but who in the general public does this. Intel was right but wrong. 64 bit is not needed but does add some functionality and improvement only a small percentage of people can appreciate. Gamers, Encoders will see a benefit. Those who compose e-mail and balance checkbooks will just waste money with getting a 64 bit cpu. unless its bill gates who needs 64bit to balance his checkbook.

You bring up a good point Cross Liscence adds a lot for the two. Im not sure when or if it runs out. Anyone else care to comment on this and how it effects innovations from both sides going forward?

 

[LTC8K6]

You said it in this thread Nemesis, so how is it wrong to bring it up?

I think you are full of bull about most of what you type, but it's still a fairly free country so type on.

 

[Nemesis2038]

Let me add my 5 year outlook on Itanium and why AMD needs to look into addressing this future problem now. This is 1 reason AMD has to innovate X86 64 or design something on the side.

Yes Itanium is a serious threat. Not today but several years from now.

Itanium is a great CPU despite is being Mhz Impaired right now. This is temporary.

Think of AMD as a Truck and Intel P4 as a Dragster. (whoever came up with this its an excellent analogy)

AMD right now with the Opteron is having great success and partially because Intel is running into a speed barrier with the current P4 line. Something AMD is nearing as well. If Intel were to easily get to 4 and 5 Ghz originally planned from the die shrink things might be a bit different for AMD on the 32bit level. The Intel dragster can only carry a small load very fast. AMD Truck is doing better now because the Truck is nearly as fast as the dragster and carries a much larger load.

It is Much easier to AMD to reach 3Ghz than for Intel to reach 4 or 5 Ghz. But once the two do reach these limits they begin to work toward ways around it. Multi CPU cores etc. But they are still single process processors. RISC. Each will still run into high speed limitations the difference is the size of the load. Once the speed barrier is reached its down to how much can you do with what you have. A 400Mph Truck can do as much and more than a 400Mhz Dragster.

In the background the forgotten Itanium will not be stuck at 1.5ghz forever. It will get faster and it being a very parallel chip will start to show its power. Eventually it will catch up in speed with with the Opterons and Xeon64's. Being a very parallel chip you can think of its as a fleet of TRUCKS. 128 to be specific. A fleet of 128 trucks at 3Ghz will be much more powerfull than 4/8/16 trucks at 5ghz.

AMD may have sunk the Itanium today and the Itanium2 in its current state.

There is an OS for Itanium there isnt a relased one for x86 64 from Microsoft. With Windows for Itanium all Intel has to do is make it faster and faster and faster and faster. Before you know it AMD has to compete with a very powerfull very fast parallel processor. In the mean time Intel is preparing the Xeon64 to battle the Opteron.

Its going to be interesting and I am rooting for no one but cheaper chips.