XP Backup Prog?

[Bluefront]

I tried out the XP backup prog.....thought it could replace the Drive Image prog I use. It's different from the XP restore prog in that if you store the backup on a different drive, you can even restore if the #1 drive completely fails. It makes a boot disk to do this.

Well it seems the backup is limited to one 4gb file max (fat32). It will not span the image over multiple files, like Drive Image will do. Or am I missing something?

 

[pip22]

The 4GB limit is imposed by the FAT32 file system, so I guess your Windows XP is using FAT32 instead of the preferred NTFS file system. NTFS imposes no file-size limit other than (obviously) the amount of free space available on the drive or partition in question. You can convert from FAT32 to NTFS without losing data by running XP's built-in converter which is a command-line utility. I've pasted the help item from Windows help system below: (and I've done it many times and never lost any data)

To convert a volume to NTFS from the command prompt
Open Command Prompt.
In the command prompt window, type
convert drive_letter: /fs:ntfs

For example, typing convert D: /fs:ntfs would format drive D: with the ntfs format.

Notes

To open command prompt, click Start, point to All Programs, point to Accessories, and then click Command Prompt.

 

[Bluefront]

Thanks....But due to several hardware/software problems, I cannot use NTFS. Spanning the image over several files would work, if possible.

 

[pip22]

Forgot to mention - when you enter the command Windows will tell you it can't do it when Windows is running. It will ask if it should perform the conversion at the next re-start? Type Y for yes and press enter.
Close the command-line box, then restart and the converter will run before Windows re-loads.

 

[pip22]

So why not continue to use Drive Image which can create two or more linked image files?

 

[Bluefront]

I'm trying to simplify things. Drive image requires the original CD to do a restore. It also requires you to install the .Net framework to work. I'd like to get XP backup working on other people's computers, none of whom use NTFS, none of whom have Drive Image.

.Net seems to dramatically slow down my boot time.....I'd like to run without it.

 

[pip22]

I don't think Windows Backup was ever intended as a full OS backup. For one thing, it needs to run in Windows, so it can't possibly backup system files which are 'locked' or currently in use. So an OS backup, even if it worked, would be missing several vital files - hardly very encouraging as a restore strategy.
Think of Windows Backup as a means of backing up 'My Documents' and other user-created files.
I use Acronis True Image for backing up the OS. Needs to create a boot-disk for restoring, but no need for any third-party software like .Net Framework. Windows Backup will not backup Windows itself even if you converted to NTFS - it wasn't designed to do that.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: pip22
I don't think Windows Backup was ever intended as a full OS backup. For one thing, it needs to run in Windows, so it can't possibly backup system files which are 'locked' or currently in use. So an OS backup, even if it worked, would be missing several vital files - hardly very encouraging as a restore strategy.
Think of Windows Backup as a means of backing up 'My Documents' and other user-created files.
I use Acronis True Image for backing up the OS. Needs to create a boot-disk for restoring, but no need for any third-party software like .Net Framework. Windows Backup will not backup Windows itself even if you converted to NTFS - it wasn't designed to do that.

That is not correct.

Windows Backup is intended as a full OS backup. It can back up OS files, even those that are in use, using Volume Shadow Copy and similar technology. True, you need to do a fast install of a basic XP OS if your entire disk dies, and then you'd just immediately restore your full+systemstate backup that you made, and you're ready to go. In other words, you've got to have a basic OS installed in order to do a restore.

Or use ASR to make the backup (still in Windows Backup) and boot from the XP CD, hit F2, and then point to the ASR file you made, and it will restore from backup, doing 100% of the work required for you, with no XP install (by you) required.

Windows Backup is fully intended (and used by thousands of people) to back up the full OS + system state data.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
I tried out the XP backup prog.....thought it could replace the Drive Image prog I use. It's different from the XP restore prog in that if you store the backup on a different drive, you can even restore if the #1 drive completely fails. It makes a boot disk to do this.

Well it seems the backup is limited to one 4gb file max (fat32). It will not span the image over multiple files, like Drive Image will do. Or am I missing something?

Check out ASR. Doing an XP ASR backup removes the need to install an OS prior to doing the restoration - just do the ASR backup to a tape or a file that's not on the C: drive (but is local to the computer being backed up) and you're all set.

FAT32 limits things to 4G. I suggest formatting and using NTFS, as it's vastly more reliable and stable than FAT32.

 

[Bluefront]

dclive.....thanks for the info. I was fairly certain what you posted was the case. I suppose I could locate all the program files, and every bit of data, on the D partition. That way I could limit the size of the C partition to under 4gb of data. That way I could use XP backup on Fat32. As I stated earlier, I cannot use NTFS on this system......

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
dclive.....thanks for the info. I was fairly certain what you posted was the case. I suppose I could locate all the program files, and every bit of data, on the D partition. That way I could limit the size of the C partition to under 4gb of data. That way I could use XP backup on Fat32. As I stated earlier, I cannot use NTFS on this system......

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=269826 talks about it in more detail, saying 4G is the max in the old FAT32 system, and it stops after hitting 4G. If for some reason you're uncomfortable having your OS be on NTFS, just have a single 'backup' partition on your disk that's NTFS, and store the large backup file on that partition - problem solved.

Can you go over why you don't like NTFS? Are you the person that had an issue with DVD-RAM drives and NTFS?

The C: partition itself doesn't need to be under 4GB - it's just that the backup file that you make must be under 4GB of data that's selected for backup. Bear in mind that when you add System State to the backup, that will increase the size quite a bit. You might want to do a test run, backing up just the system state, so you can see how much space that would take up, so you can subtract that amount from the total 4GB.

Good luck!!

 

[Bluefront]

Yeah...that's me. If I store an image of a Fat32 partition, on an NTFS partition, then restore that image to the Fat32 partition, the Fat32 partition changes to NTFS........at least that's what happened when I used Drive Image. That's why I haven't tried this using XP Backup....

 

[spyordie007]

But due to several hardware/software problems, I cannot use NTFS.

Can you go over why you don't like NTFS? Are you the person that had an issue with DVD-RAM drives and NTFS?

Yes can you please elaborate on why you cant use NTFS? FAT is quite old and fragile.

Over the long run it might serve you better to resolve or mitigate the issue so you can move to NTFS rather than spending the time to figure out a way "around" the 4GB file limitation.

 

[spyordie007]

Yeah...that's me.

Is the origional thread still around and can you link us to it? I dont recall that issue so I'd like to review.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
Yeah...that's me. If I store an image of a Fat32 partition, on an NTFS partition, then restore that image to the Fat32 partition, the Fat32 partition changes to NTFS........at least that's what happened when I used Drive Image. That's why I haven't tried this using XP Backup....

That sounds *really* odd, because Drive Image stores the partition formatting (NTFS or FAT32) inside of it (inside of the drive image file), so no other outside variables matter. Whether you copy over the network or locally, NTFS or FAT32 or whatever, none of that matters.

 

[Bluefront]

Yeah it's odd ok.....maybe this MB is the problem. I tried two different clean installs......same problem with NTFS. Neither of my DVD-Ram drives work properly with XP Pro SP2, when the OS is on NTFS. I'm really tired of trying to explain it....leave it be. I'm using Fat32 for now.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Bluefront
Yeah it's odd ok.....maybe this MB is the problem. I tried two different clean installs......same problem with NTFS. Neither of my DVD-Ram drives work properly with XP Pro SP2, when the OS is on NTFS. I'm really tired of trying to explain it....leave it be. I'm using Fat32 for now.

OK, so just make a (non-OS) *partition* that's NTFS, and back up your file there.

 

[pip22]

I still maintain MS did not intend Backup to be used as an OS backup, and I certainly don't agree with you that thousands of users are doing that with it.

 

[gwag]

Originally posted by: pip22
I still maintain MS did not intend Backup to be used as an OS backup, and I certainly don't agree with you that thousands of users are doing that with it.

Sure it is and by defualt on Small Business Server 2003.

 

[spyordie007]

Originally posted by: pip22
I still maintain MS did not intend Backup to be used as an OS backup, and I certainly don't agree with you that thousands of users are doing that with it.

They most certainly do and have for a long time.

On stand alone machines it's been the way to backup for years. It's how the majority of us got stuff on tape backups back in the NT4 days and it's been used or built-on very heavily ever since.

I think part of the problem is that a number of you are confusing drive imaging with backing up. While they have gained some additional overlapping functionality over the years they still are and really have always been geared to do differant things.

backup ? drive image

 

[jbfstplk]

Just tried this and thanks to dclive, it works. I was practicing with a hard drive that I had installed XP, Office, etc., on and used PQMagic to split the drive in two. I backed up the whole drive to the second partition, and than trashed the C: partition. I then installed XP from scratch on the partition, and when it was done, I restored the original drive, and IT WORKED!! I didn't try the ASR technique but will probably do so later, as it might be faster. Keep up the good work. I am new to this forum, but will keep tuned in to it.

Joe