YACT: Tires

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: CVSiN

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: mchammer
I have an '89 Ford Taurus. My rear tires have a lot of tread but they are 5 years old. I want to put them on the front because the front tires are getting low. Does the age of a tire affect its performance at all?

Yes, the rubber gets hard.

not hard but it rots... dryrot will kill tires and casue a loss of performance...

No, it gets hard also. I have a tire that's 10 years old here, and it feels like it's made out of plastic instead of rubber.

 

[Jeff7181]

You ALWAYS want the best two tires on the front. The front tires on a FWD car especially are under a lot more stress than the rear. That's the reason you NEVER EVER put retreads on the front of a big rig. Because they're under more stress, it would rip the tread away fairly quickly.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
You ALWAYS want the best two tires on the front. The front tires on a FWD car especially are under a lot more stress than the rear. That's the reason you NEVER EVER put retreads on the front of a big rig. Because they're under more stress, it would rip the tread away fairly quickly.

No. On a car you put the good tires on the rear for the reasons that people have already mentioned. A car is not a semi tractor.

The reason that retreds are not put on the front two tires of a semi is because of the increased total failure (i.e. blowout) rate of retreds and the lack of redundancy on the front tires. There are two rear axles on the tractor, each with two tires per side. If one rear tire blows on a semi tractor, there are 3 others to shoulder the load until the truck limps to a stop, this is not the case with the steering tires. Furthermore, the front two tires on a semi are the most lightly-loaded and least stressed (which is how they get away with only having two of them as opposed to the 8 tires in the rear). Your guess about the reasoning is very far off.

ZV

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: jagec

Originally posted by: mchammer

Originally posted by: ElFenix
newer tires go on the rear of fwd cars

But the fronts do most of the work, no?

Yes, but if one set of tires is going to lose traction, the car's behavior is much easier to predict if it's the FRONT set.

If you don't lose traction, however, you will be losing out substantially on braking performance if your rear tires are the good ones.

I agree with Rallispec's reasoning at least in the case of ABS, where your rear isn't likely to come around to the front.

Weight transfer to the front tires increases traction immensely.

True, but crap tires are still crap tires I often wear my tires down nicely and before getting them replaced my braking is substantially decreased.

 

[cjgallen]

I had some really old tires on my bug. The treads were fine, but the sidewalls were cracking like crazy. One developed a big ol' gash, so I decided to replace them.

 

[spidey07]

Best advice?

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Every 7500 miles.

Rotate your tires.

Can't say enough.

Rotate your tires.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Best advice?

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Every 7500 miles.

Rotate your tires.

Can't say enough.

Rotate your tires.

But then each time you do the bad ones are on the back :Q

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: spidey07
Best advice?

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Every 7500 miles.

Rotate your tires.

Can't say enough.

Rotate your tires.

But then each time you do the bad ones are on the back :Q

dummy...

If you rotate you have no "bad tires" and your treadwear will probably be double what you're used to.

c'mon man...you know better.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: spidey07
Best advice?

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Every 7500 miles.

Rotate your tires.

Can't say enough.

Rotate your tires.

But then each time you do the bad ones are on the back :Q

My rear tires always wear faster than my fronts... Even on the FWD car I used to have.

Of course, the cars I drive don't understeer like it's their job through corners and I know how to drive well enough that I'm not bending the front tire under every time I go around a corner.

ZV

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: spidey07
Best advice?

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Every 7500 miles.

Rotate your tires.

Can't say enough.

Rotate your tires.

But then each time you do the bad ones are on the back :Q

dummy...

If you rotate you have no "bad tires" and your treadwear will probably be double what you're used to.

c'mon man...you know better.

Well then all your tires could potentially "suck".

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I know how to drive well enough that I'm not bending the front tire under every time I go around a corner.

Please explain. I think you might be describing something I've noticed.

 

[SXMP]

Something you guys are not considering as well: many cars have disc brakes up front and drum brakes in back. Stopping power is usually described as 80-20 for these setups. While the argument for new tires on the back is strong, most fwd cars that require 2 new tires get them up front, especially in the winter monthes. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I can't totally agree about putting the best tires on the rear. I'd always want my best tires on the front. Forget about safety.....no tire blowout is going to cause me to wreck.
So other than the blowout thing, having the best tires on the front is better in all other areas. The car will handle better and drive better. This is particularly true on a FWD car.
Don't believe it? Okay, take a car with worn tires and only replace the back two. Drive it. Now rotate them so the new ones are on front. Drive it again. I guarantee you'll feel a difference, and you won't want them rotated back.

The rubber in tires never stops curing. This is what is eventually called dry rot. It is accelerated by UV rays. If your car tires are 5 years old, I'd replace them regardless of what the tread looks like. You'll be able to feel the difference.

The reason that retreds are not put on the front two tires of a semi is because of the increased total failure (i.e. blowout) rate of retreds and the lack of redundancy on the front tires.

Wouldn't this be the same thing as saying "always have the best tires up front"?

Bottom line: Most mechanics, particularly front end techs, are going to tell you to keep the best tires on the front. Ford District Service Engineers have told me the same thing.
If you tires on the rear are so bad that you are worried about a blowout, you need some new tires.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I know how to drive well enough that I'm not bending the front tire under every time I go around a corner.

Please explain. I think you might be describing something I've noticed.

Just that a lot of people overcook it going into a corner with a car that pushes and unless you have really low-profile tires with very, very stiff sidewalls, the tire kind of folds itself under (outside front tire mostly, as it's the most heavily stressed). Basically, it's a side effect of entering a corner too fast and results in scuffing of the sidewall as the tire ends up riding on a portion of the sidewall. These people generally hit the gas again only once they've straightened out because they are fighting through the corner (this is, to a lesser extent, true in street driving as well).

The better method is to be fully slowed before entering the corner and then to accelerate through the corner, generally beginning slightly before the apex. It's the initial turn-in that strains the tires most from what I've seen and by braking before the initial turn in and then accelerating through the corner, more speed is maintained with less wear on the outside front tire.

ZV

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
My rear tires always wear faster than my fronts... Even on the FWD car I used to have.

Of course, the cars I drive don't understeer like it's their job through corners and I know how to drive well enough that I'm not bending the front tire under every time I go around a corner.

ZV

Sounds like you drive like you have some sense. Still, regardless of how you drive, the front tires on a FWD car should wear more quickly, just like the rears on a RWD should.
This is, of course, assuming no alignment problems.
I had a friend with a RWD cars who plowed through corners so much that he wore his front tires completely out before the rears were hardly scuffed. That was an extreme situation, though.
His dad went crazy taking that thing to the tire shop bitching to them about the front end alignment.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: spidey07
Best advice?

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Rotate your tires.

Every 7500 miles.

Rotate your tires.

Can't say enough.

Rotate your tires.

But then each time you do the bad ones are on the back :Q

My rear tires always wear faster than my fronts... Even on the FWD car I used to have.

Of course, the cars I drive don't understeer like it's their job through corners and I know how to drive well enough that I'm not bending the front tire under every time I go around a corner.

ZV

you don't rotate your tires enough.

talk all you want but if you care about your rubber then you rotate your tires religously.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I know how to drive well enough that I'm not bending the front tire under every time I go around a corner.

Please explain. I think you might be describing something I've noticed.

If setup well a FWD car can experience oversteer and wear the rears more than the fronts.

But then again that totally depends on the suspension.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

The reason that retreds are not put on the front two tires of a semi is because of the increased total failure (i.e. blowout) rate of retreds and the lack of redundancy on the front tires.

Wouldn't this be the same thing as saying "always have the best tires up front"?

Bottom line: Most mechanics, particularly front end techs, are going to tell you to keep the best tires on the front. Ford District Service Engineers have told me the same thing.
If you tires on the rear are so bad that you are worried about a blowout, you need some new tires.

Different scenario. Blowout is not the same as lower traction from treadwear. Even tires with significant treadwear are not significantly more likely to fail. However, retreads are. Furthermore, cars do not have 8 rear tires and only 2 front tires. The additional tires available in the rear to shoulder the load makes things different. Even on semis blowouts are generally single-tire incidents.

Look at it this way:

Car:
Front blowout/traction loss: Safe and predictable understeer.
Rear blowout/traction loss: Oversteer and instability since there are no "backup" tires on the same side of the axle as the failed tire.

Semi:
Front blowout/traction loss: Understeer.
Rear blowout/traction loss: For all intents and purposes there is zero change in the vehicle's handling because there are three other tires on the same side of the axle to support the load.

Now, since even a worn car tire is not significantly more likely to blowout than a new tire, this leave traction loss as the dominant factor in chosing the axle on which to place the marginal tires with a car. Logically, the front axle is the better place.

On a semi when dealing with retreads, a blowout is the greater concern but the redundancy of rear tires makes the rear axles the choice for placement.

The redundancy of the semi's rear tires completely alters the scenario, as well as the differing likely failure modes.

ZV

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: spidey07
talk all you want but if you care about your rubber then you rotate your tires religously.

QFT. This, along with keeping them inflated properly and keeping the suspension aligned will ensure maximum tire life.
Rotation is their salvation. Some cars are more sensitive to this than others.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: spidey07
you don't rotate your tires enough.

talk all you want but if you care about your rubber then you rotate your tires religously.

Actually, I do. But each rotation has the rears slightly more worn than the fronts. This, of course, means that I'm wearing the rears faster, but the rotation allows them to average out to about the same total wear.

ZV

 

[Pacfanweb]

ZV, I understand what you're saying, but a rear blowout isn't any more likely to cause an accident than a front. Front's, IMO, are more likely, because they will immediately affect steering. Your average person will likely overcompensate, and have a higher risk of a crash.

Either way, we're talking an extreme circumstance. My professional advice is: Forget about potential for a blowout. That is very unlikely from just being worn. If your tire is so worn that you have cause to be worried about a blowout, then it is unsafe to be on the front OR the rear. Get a new damn tire.
Blowouts aside, you are better off in all other aspects to keep your best tires on the front. That's where all the weight is, and that's where all the stress on the tires is. FWD just increases the burden placed on the tires.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
If the rubber isn't cracked they should be fine.

Better yet, have a shop look at them. 5 years isn't that long for tires. If it were 10 years I'd be more concerned.

my thoughts.
5 years is no big deal.

but then again, a quick inspection is really all that will ultimately tell you if they are useable or not.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: spidey07
you don't rotate your tires enough.

talk all you want but if you care about your rubber then you rotate your tires religously.

Actually, I do. But each rotation has the rears slightly more worn than the fronts. This, of course, means that I'm wearing the rears faster, but the rotation allows them to average out to about the same total wear.

ZV

Which is exactly what it's supposed to do. Keep them wearing at the same rate. What kind of car, BTW?

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: spidey07
you don't rotate your tires enough.

talk all you want but if you care about your rubber then you rotate your tires religously.

Actually, I do. But each rotation has the rears slightly more worn than the fronts. This, of course, means that I'm wearing the rears faster, but the rotation allows them to average out to about the same total wear.

ZV

Good man.

I face the same kind of thing with my car. The rears wear faster than the front, most likey due to suspension setup (2004 tl)

Sorry to be harsh. But when talking tires rotating them is the key to good wear...after all my years of aggresive driving just rotating them (before you see wear) religously made all my rubber simply last longer, more even wear and make the car much more predictable.

I'm talking the difference between getting 20K out of a tire vs 40K. All because of rotating them.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Which is exactly what it's supposed to do. Keep them wearing at the same rate. What kind of car, BTW?

The Mark VIII.

Can't rotate the tires on the 944, they don't match front to rear and they're directional. Plus, the 944 doesn't see the mileage for me to worry about them. The tires on that are a disposable commodity, like the tires on most cars that see track time.

ZV