yay for more stimulus!

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Jul 10, 2007
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NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- You won't see it all in one neat package. And you won't hear the White House call it stimulus.

But there's a good chance lawmakers will decide to extend some of the stimulus measures included in the $787 billion economic recovery package passed in February and possibly create some new ones as well.

On Wednesday, House Democrats are convening a forum of economists to debate the state of the economy, with a specific focus on job creation. And lawmakers are convening hearings on Capitol Hill this week to discuss the economic outlook and the state of the housing market.

A number of ideas on the table are lifeline measures, while some are flat-out incentives to spur economic activity.

Here's a rundown of what's under consideration, estimates of what the provisions might cost and where they stand currently in the legislative process.
Unemployment benefits extension

By year-end, an estimated 1.3 million jobless workers will have run out of unemployment benefits, according to the National Employment Law Project.

It's expected that lawmakers won't let that happen.

The House has already approved an extension and the Senate has amended it but not yet voted on it. Both parties say they want to extend benefits but they disagree over how to pay for it and how to handle amendments to the bill.

In the Senate proposal, unemployment benefits would be extended by up to 14 weeks in every state and then another six weeks on top of that in states where the unemployment rate tops 8.5%.

Currently, states with unemployment rates topping 8% now offer up to 79 weeks of unemployment benefits, said Chad Stone, chief economist of the liberal Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. States with unemployment rates between 6% and 8% now offer up to 59 weeks. And all other states currently offer up to 46 weeks.

Estimated cost: $2.4 billion. But Senate Democrats say the proposal would be paid for in full by extending an add-on tax for employers under the Federal Unemployment Tax Act.

For the past 32 years, employers were required to pay an additional 0.2% on the first $7,000 of a worker's annual wages on top of the 0.6% they normally pay, said George Wentworth, a policy analyst for NELP. That surtax was supposed to expire this year. But lawmakers would extend it through June 30, 2011, to pay for the benefits extension.

If they do, the Congressional Budget Office estimates such a move could reduce the deficit by $200 million over 10 years.
Cobra premium subsidy extension

The White House supports extending the federal subsidy now offered to unemployed workers who opt to continue their health insurance coverage from their former employers.

Under the original provision passed under the economic recovery act, Uncle Sam agreed to pick up 65% of the cost of the Cobra premium for up to nine months for workers laid off between Sept. 1, 2008, and Dec. 31, 2009.

That 65% comes close to replicating the share of the premium typically paid for by employers when a worker signs up for coverage.

To date, a Cobra extension has not been attached to any proposed legislation.

Estimated cost: The original provision was estimated by the CBO to cost roughly $25 billion. Absent the exact parameters for an extension, however, it's too early to tell how much the provision would cost.

There will likely be a cost to employers as well. The publication Business Insurance reported recently that companies typically pay out $1.50 in claims for every $1 collected in Cobra premiums.
Emergency payment to seniors

To compensate for the fact that there will be no cost-of-living adjustment made to Social Security benefits in 2010 due to a lack of inflation, President Obama has proposed sending a $250 economic relief payment to seniors, veterans and the disabled next year. It would be identical to the $250 emergency payment sent out earlier this year under the economic recovery law.

Democratic leaders in the House and Senate have voiced their support for such a payment.

But others don't think it's a good idea. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget notes that the cost-of-living adjustment for 2009 was much higher than average -- 5.8% -- due to record energy prices. So "even holding Social Security benefits steady means they will have increased in value. There is no economic or moral justification for increasing them further," said CRFB president Maya MacGuineas in a statement.

To date, a proposed emergency payment to seniors has not been attached to any legislation.

Estimated cost: The measure would cost $13 billion, according to White House estimates.
Homebuyer tax credit expansion

An estimated 1.4 million tax filers to date have taken advantage of a temporary first-time homebuyer tax credit aimed primarily at people making less than $75,000 ($150,000 for joint filers). An estimated 15% of them bought their home specifically because of the tax break.

The latest iteration of that credit is worth $8,000, and it's scheduled to expire on Nov. 30.

Many lawmakers want to extend that deadline, expand eligibility beyond first-time homebuyers and include those who make more than is allowed under the current rules.

Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., and Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., co-sponsored an amendment to the unemployment extension bill that would extend the credit until the end of June 2010 and be available to single filers making up to $150,000 and joint filers making up to $300,000.

The amendment may or may not remain attached to the unemployment bill -- which has been stalled due to political skirmishes between Democrats and Republicans. But Congress Daily reports that senators and aides "said both [measures] appear likely to clear the chamber in some form this fall."

It's still not clear where the White House stands. At a Senate Banking hearing on Tuesday, Housing Secretary Shaun Donovan said "within a few weeks we'll have sufficient data to get to a conclusion on this."

Estimated cost: The Isakson-Dodd bill is estimated to cost $16.7 billion. Isakson said at the Senate Banking hearing that he'd be happy to look for ways to pay for it and Dodd concurred. Typically, if a measure is considered stimulus it is not something that lawmakers feel obligated to pay for by either reducing spending or raising revenue in other areas.
Jobs credit creation

Although no formal proposal has been made, there has been some talk of creating an employer tax credit for hiring new workers.

The idea is to spur job creation and to do so in the face of forecasts for a 10% unemployment rate in 2010.

But it's hard to do that without rewarding companies that were already planning to hire anyway, said Clint Stretch, managing principal for tax policy at Deloitte Tax.

Consider two competitors who dealt with the downturn differently, Stretch said. One made deep cuts to its workforce and is ready to ramp up again, while the other cut costs but managed to do so without laying off too many people. In this instance, the first company benefits far more from the credit than its competitor.

A hiring credit was put in place during the Carter administration and the consensus among researchers is that two-thirds of the 2.1 million jobs created by the credit would have been created without it, according to a post on Tax Vox, a blog of the Tax Policy Center edited by Howard Gleckman.

"Tim Bartik [of the W.E. Upjohn Institute for Employment Research] and John Bishop [of Cornell University] ... argue it nonetheless created 700,000 new jobs in a year - not bad, even if a lot of money was wasted. Others insist the research they used is flawed," Gleckman noted.

Estimated cost: Bartik and Bishop estimate that a job creation tax credit that refunds to employers 15% of new wage costs in 2010 and 10% in 2011 could create 5.1 million jobs at a cost of $27 billion, or $5,400 per new job created.

unemployment extension - needed. it's just impossible to find jobs.

cobra extension - undecided

$250 SS check to senios - a BIG WTF. there was no cost of living adjustment for a reason. wtf do they need another $250.

homebuyer tax refund - NO, JUST NO.

job creation credit - necessary.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Originally posted by: rudder
Obama should have just hired each unemployed American at $35,000 year. It seems this price tag is much cheaper than spending hundreds of millions to save a small number of jobs.

$135,000 per job in New Hampshire
Exactly.. I'd rather pay people $35,000 a year to pick up trash on the side of our highways then sitting around pretending to be looking for work, at least at that point there is something being done with it.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Insanity. If there were demand for what these people would produce at the new jobs that congress wants them to have, then the job would already exist. Instead, we'll create another bubble, this time in employment. Everyone will get a job making something that no one wants. Who will pay for all of these unwanted items and services? The government?
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,389
8,547
126
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Insanity. If there were demand for what these people would produce at the new jobs that congress wants them to have, then the job would already exist. Instead, we'll create another bubble, this time in employment. Everyone will get a job making something that no one wants. Who will pay for all of these unwanted items and services? The government?

human psychology isn't as perfect as that. you've got to get a critical mass of people thinking things will be better before they are. that was the issue in the great depression, and it wasn't fully resolved until the massive .gov expenditures of WW2.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Originally posted by: rudder
Obama should have just hired each unemployed American at $35,000 year. It seems this price tag is much cheaper than spending hundreds of millions to save a small number of jobs.

$135,000 per job in New Hampshire
Exactly.. I'd rather pay people $35,000 a year to pick up trash on the side of our highways then sitting around pretending to be looking for work, at least at that point there is something being done with it.
I think last week Obama admin released specific numbers on how many jobs they had created, something like $30k, which was millions per job from the stimulus. That is a bit disingenuous, though, as it doesn't quantify (in fact nobody can quantify this) how many "indirect".

Anyway, I know that in Canada when I was out of work and looking for a job, there were some companies that would have deals with the government (quite a few) in which they could hire workers who were unemployed at a wage above what they are otherwise worth with the government filling in the diff. So you can make $25k/year, but the employer may pay only $15k/year. Other countries have deals like this and I know some states, at least, have variants of it.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Give the money to the people who are paid up on their mortgages. Reward good behavior, not bad behavior. Better yet, how about no handouts at all unless the checks go directly to the people. We need to help people not government agencies.

The government should pass a law that if you lost one or both persons income in the family, that you dont have to pay penalties for taking money out of your retirement fund. People are being forced to spend down their retirement funds and then they have to pay a steep penalty for taking the money they have saved for years just to get by. It is like adding insult on top of being layed off with no hope of finding another job soon. They could put this into law by the end of the year to help people now. If not, a lot of people will be bankrupt and still owe a lot in tax penalties to the IRS. This is a double wammy.
 

nullzero

Senior member
Jan 15, 2005
670
0
0
If more stimulus is passed and the massive spending continues we will see the dollar index break down below 70.
 
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