Your thoughts on God

[ThinClient]

Here's what I said to JD a few posts ago:

Aye, I read your posts even when they're not addressed to me. It's wrong and your Pope analogy proves it.

The messenger determines its tone. My focus is ultimately on the tone.

You focus on the tone because it's a cop out excuse to be able to avoid the logic and reason of the message which is your real goal.

No, you're wrong, because people won't listen (the message won't get to them) unless they have a reason to listen to it.

The reason to listen to it is to better themselves, to better the world, to stop lying to themselves about the existence of god, to stop lying to themselves about how morality and ethics can't be had without the Bible or some sort of deity, to stop perpetuating the oppression and hypocrisy and immorality that is your religion (and other religions, too, man), the list goes on and on.

For example, I'd like to know how many sincere religious people would read a book entitled "God is not Great" compared to a book entitled "Why Science is Great"?

I'd read both of those books because I know that one cannot understand the bigger picture without trying to understand both sides of the line. Your problem is that you completely reject the opposition simply because it opposes the point of view that you are too prideful or to fearful to risk challenging.

Or compare that to a book called "The End of Faith" contrasted to a book called "The Birth of Enlightment"?

I'd read both of those too, because I'm not so close-minded that I immediately reject anything that opposes my point of view, like you do.

How about "The God Delusion" compared to "The Realities of Science"?

What's your point asking these questions? You're starting to sound like Moon "The Word Salad" Beam over there.

I think the point of those books was to intentionally be controversial (because it sells) and not really educational. If they really wanted to educated religious people (which they didn't) they knew that a provocative title wasn't the way to do it.

You're making a value judgment that is completely incorrect. God is Not Great was written to educate people, but you are too prideful to bother reading it to find out. Your knee-jerk reaction that Dawkins and Hitchens are the world's meanest men is a very convenient afront for you to hide behind so you don't have to address the real points they make.

Don't worry, your tactics are stereotypical of how most religious people I've talked to choose to avoid the message. I've had this conversation countless times with many many religions and they ALL fall back on this "well you're not nice so I'm not going to bother using my brain" effectively proving my point.

I'd read a book with pro-science titles rather than anti-religious ones, FWIW.

No, you wouldn't, and you've said as much (which now makes you a liar). You refuse to read The Selfish Gene because Dawkins wrote it. You refuse to read The God Delusion because it includes your god, even though it also includes every other god ever constructed by man. You would absolutely agree with everything negative said about other gods but simply because your own god is thrown into the mix as a viable target, you reject the entire message and the entire book and you use some pissy excuse that the author is a meanie to avoid being honest with yourself and with everyone else.

 

[ThinClient]

Rob, people were very polite to you in the beginning. You repeatedly ignored valid points, or even worse said that you actually understood what people were saying and thanked them for explaining it to you. But then in the very next thread you'd act like no one had ever taken the time to explain those very same points to you. This has been your MO for a very long time now, people have gotten tired of it.

Edit - There are many, many people like you and it's what causes many Atheists to lose their patience.

This has been said repeatedly but he won't hear it. He can't hear it. He'll hide behind the "you're being mean" excuse to avoid being an honest person.

One of the biggest reasons I have a heart for Rob M. is that I see myself from decades ago and it breaks my heart to know that someone is so willingly dishonest with themselves and with others.

 

[Retro Rob]

Rob, people were very polite to you in the beginning. You repeatedly ignored valid points, or even worse said that you actually understood what people were saying and thanked them for explaining it to you. But then in the very next thread you'd act like no one had ever taken the time to explain those very same points to you. This has been your MO for a very long time now, people have gotten tired of it.

Edit - There are many, many people like you and it's what causes many Atheists to lose their patience.

Well, preserve your patience and do what most adults do -- move along, put me or your ignore list...stop responding to my posts.

That will rectify this.

 

[ThinClient]

Well, preserve your patience and do what most adults do -- move along, put me or your ignore list...stop responding to my posts.

That will rectify this.

You know what else will rectify this? You pulling your head out of your ass. Help us help you. Stop willingly wallowing in ignorance. You're better than this. Don't make it other people's responsibility to handle your immaturity. You owe it to yourself to be honest with yourself, if nothing else.

 

[sandorski]

Rob, people were very polite to you in the beginning. You repeatedly ignored valid points, or even worse said that you actually understood what people were saying and thanked them for explaining it to you. But then in the very next thread you'd act like no one had ever taken the time to explain those very same points to you. This has been your MO for a very long time now, people have gotten tired of it.

Edit - There are many, many people like you and it's what causes many Atheists to lose their patience.

Indeed. He and others have a starting point of not Listening. When people lose patience and start the ridicule or other "negative" treatment, suddenly He and others start whining about how awful the opposition was. Then they try to turn it around to make the end result the reason they acted that way in the first place that caused the later attitude towards them. Just another circle of Theistic Thinking.

This is why compromise is unacceptable. These people don't deserve Respect, once they have shown their true nature. If that means that they dig in their heals further, so be it. The goal is to change Society, making the dishonest so toxic that the Public can't stand them is a valid strategy.

Even those who currently seem immovable will eventually bend or turn into such nutters that only other nutters will respect them. Either way is a fine result, progress will be had.

 

[sandorski]

Well, preserve your patience and do what most adults do -- move along, put me or your ignore list...stop responding to my posts.

That will rectify this.

Personally, I don't care if you lie to us all day long. What really bothers me is how you constantly lie to yourself. How can anyone trust a person who can't even be honest with themselves?

 

[Retro Rob]

Aye, I read your posts even when they're not addressed to me. It's wrong and your Pope analogy proves it.

Fine, not an issue, then.

You focus on the tone because it's a cop out excuse to be able to avoid the logic and reason of the message which is your real goal.

Okay.

The reason to listen to it is to better themselves, to better the world, to stop lying to themselves about the existence of god, to stop lying to themselves about how morality and ethics can't be had without the Bible or some sort of deity, to stop perpetuating the oppression and hypocrisy and immorality that is your religion (and other religions, too, man), the list goes on and on.

I totally agree here. Additionally, I'm sure you're a moral and ethical person absent of religion/belief.

Conversely, there are immoral and unethical theists. I've known some, to be honest.

I'd read both of those books because I know that one cannot understand the bigger picture without trying to understand both sides of the line. Your problem is that you completely reject the opposition simply because it opposes the point of view that you are too prideful or to fearful to risk challenging.

Actually, I've been "godless" before. Not an atheist, but I was completely irreligious for about 10 years. I have lived the other side, to some degree.

I'd read both of those too, because I'm not so close-minded that I immediately reject anything that opposes my point of view, like you do.

I read some of the PDF copy of Hitchens' book. Still working on completing that.

What's your point asking these questions? You're starting to sound like Moon "The Word Salad" Beam over there.

My apologies, but those questions are designed to evoke some thought about more scientifically focused titles.

You're making a value judgment that is completely incorrect. God is Not Great was written to educate people, but you are too prideful to bother reading it to find out. Your knee-jerk reaction that Dawkins and Hitchens are the world's meanest men is a very convenient afront for you to hide behind so you don't have to address the real points they make.

Can you find a quote where I said they are the worlds meanest men?

Don't worry, your tactics are stereotypical of how most religious people I've talked to choose to avoid the message. I've had this conversation countless times with many many religions and they ALL fall back on this "well you're not nice so I'm not going to bother using my brain" effectively proving my point.

Wait! When was the last time this happened and who were those people?

No, you wouldn't, and you've said as much (which now makes you a liar). You refuse to read The Selfish Gene because Dawkins wrote it. You refuse to read The God Delusion because it includes your god, even though it also includes every other god ever constructed by man. You would absolutely agree with everything negative said about other gods but simply because your own god is thrown into the mix as a viable target, you reject the entire message and the entire book and you use some pissy excuse that the author is a meanie to avoid being honest with yourself and with everyone else.

Yeah, I said I wouldn't read the selfish gene, but where did I say wouldn't read any science text?

 

[ThinClient]

Wait! When was the last time this happened and who were those people?

You are simply the next in a long, long line of theists that I've had this discussion with and it almost always goes this way eventually.

Yeah, I said I wouldn't read the selfish gene, but where did I say wouldn't read any science text?

The Selfish Gene is scientific text. You won't read it because of your bullshit claims that Dawkins is some kind of monster that he's not.

 

[Retro Rob]

The Selfish Gene is scientific text. You won't read it because of your bullshit claims that Dawkins is some kind of monster that he's not.

Right, but where did I say I wouldn't read any scientific text? Do you know if I've yet to read one?

And in case you didn't know this, Dawkins isn't the only person who writes books on matters of science.

 

[ThinClient]

Right, but where did I say I wouldn't read any scientific text? Do you know if I've yet to read one?

And in case you didn't know this, Dawkins isn't the only person who writes books on matters of science.

Right here, for starters.

Yeah, I said I wouldn't read the selfish gene

 

[ThinClient]

Rob, you need to address the following posts.

Indeed. He and others have a starting point of not Listening. When people lose patience and start the ridicule or other "negative" treatment, suddenly He and others start whining about how awful the opposition was. Then they try to turn it around to make the end result the reason they acted that way in the first place that caused the later attitude towards them. Just another circle of Theistic Thinking.

This is why compromise is unacceptable. These people don't deserve Respect, once they have shown their true nature. If that means that they dig in their heals further, so be it. The goal is to change Society, making the dishonest so toxic that the Public can't stand them is a valid strategy.

Even those who currently seem immovable will eventually bend or turn into such nutters that only other nutters will respect them. Either way is a fine result, progress will be had.

Personally, I don't care if you lie to us all day long. What really bothers me is how you constantly lie to yourself. How can anyone trust a person who can't even be honest with themselves?

 

[Retro Rob]

Right here, for starters.

I've started reading God is not Great (don't know when I will get back to it), and I also read books on astronomy and am an avid viewer of "The Planets" and "How the universe works".

All you have to do is ask.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

One of my thoughts on God is that people of faith, right or wrong, can often be much nicer and happier people than some Atheists and if the Atheists can't match that they have nothing at all to teach them. What such kinds of Atheists want to do is bring them down. It is the nature of those in need, recognized or not, to destroy the faith that sustains others. They hate the fact that the irrationality of another's mind may serve to protect them and they want to tear it away, and that's not very nice. They will go on and on and on about the illogicality and irrationality of the other's faith, and all from a far worse place. It's called the arrogance of empty reason.

"There are a million paths in life and they all lead nowhere. Choose a path that has a heart." Reported as a saying of a Native American who took drugs.

Well said. I personally don't get what motivates so many to tear people down because they happen to believe in God.

 

[ThinClient]

"I've started" is a way to say "I read a few words and have no intention of picking it up again because if my intention to do so was honest, I'd do it right now but clearly I am not doing that."

More dishonesty with yourself and with others.

With the way you act around here, your ultimatum that I ask you is preposterous. Yet another offer for me to kiss your ass before you consider reason, which we all know by your past actions is probably yet another lie. It's obvious that you like to be in control (control and fear are the two biggest tools of the religious fool). You want others to bow down to you so that you feel superior to them and this is just another effort to do so.

 

[ThinClient]

Well said. I personally don't get what motivates so many to tear people down because they happen to believe in God.

You don't read the news much, do you. Hell you haven't paid attention to history much.

 

[Retro Rob]

"I've started" is a way to say "I read a few words and have no intention of picking it up again because if my intention to do so was honest, I'd do it right now but clearly I am not doing that."

More dishonesty with yourself and with others.

With the way you act around here, your ultimatum that I ask you is preposterous. Yet another offer for me to kiss your ass before you consider reason, which we all know by your past actions is probably yet another lie. It's obvious that you like to be in control. You want others to bow down to you so that you feel superior to them and this is just another effort to do so.

Again, all you have to do is ask. I have every intention of picking, rather reopening, the PDF version.

It's not high on my priority list. Is that ok with you, or are you going to further enlighten me with how much I don't know about myself?

 

[ThinClient]

Again, all you have to do is ask. I have every intention of picking, rather reopening, the PDF version.

It's not high on my priority list. Is that ok with you, or are you going to further enlighten me with how much I don't know about myself?

This is your way of saying "bow down and kiss my ring" because, deep down, every single religious person is either seeking control or cowering in fear. I guess which know which one you chose and why you're so desperate to cling to your superstition.

Does it even bother you that you're dishonest with yourself? Nobody here believes that you're honestly going to read the books that would be good for you. You have proven repeatedly that you are not an honest person.

Why won't you address Sandorski's posts?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You don't read the news much, do you. Hell you haven't paid attention to history much.

I think I get it now...you feel threatened.

 

[Retro Rob]

This is your way of saying "bow down and kiss my ring" because, deep down, every single religious person is either seeking control or cowering in fear. I guess which know which one you chose and why you're so desperate to cling to your superstition.

Does it even bother you that you're dishonest with yourself? Nobody here believes that you're honestly going to read the books that would be good for you. You have proven repeatedly that you are not an honest person.

Why won't you address Sandorski's posts?

I just wish to show you why it isn't wise to make assumptions about people you don't know.

Asking questions is fundamental to getting the answers you need, not the ones you want.

Sandorski is more than welcome to take the advice I have to JD -- ignore me of I am that bad of a poster. Don't put yourself through needless wrangling.

 

[ThinClient]

I think I get it now...you feel threatened.

You're damn right I feel threatened, with abortion doctors being slaughtered, suicide vest wearing motherfuckers blowing people up thinking that they're doing something righteous -that they're god commands them to do it, that the genitals of kids are being mutilated because they think their god commands them to do it, the list is huge.

The fate of the planet, of our species, hangs in the balance between willful ignorance in bronze age myths and educated enlightenment.

 

[ThinClient]

I just wish to show you why it isn't wise to make assumptions about people you don't know.

Asking questions is fundamental to getting the answers you need, not the ones you want.

Sandorski is more than welcome to take the advice I have to JD -- ignore me of I am that bad of a poster. Don't put yourself through needless wrangling.

You ask the same questions every day and you're given answers every day. The next day, you're asking the same questions. You aren't interested in answers. You're interested in either conflict or concessions.

 

[Retro Rob]

You ask the same questions every day and you're given answers every day. The next day, you're asking the same questions. You aren't interested in answers. You're interested in either conflict or concessions.

Your ignore function is working, is it not? Why not use it?

 

[ThinClient]

Your ignore function is working, is it not? Why not use it?

The same reason your ignore function doesn't work: you're proving me right:

You aren't interested in answers. You're interested in either conflict or concessions.

Edit: on top of that, you claimed to have put me on your ignore list, which is yet ANOTHER lie from you. Yet another notch on the wall proving Sandorski's posts true (see, this is how EVIDENCE works).

 

[Moonbeam]

Well said. I personally don't get what motivates so many to tear people down because they happen to believe in God.

They live in a state of separation and loneliness devoid of a sense of the ocean of love and belonging and in order to remain unconscious of their need for such a state they deny its very existence. They suffer deeply but do not wish to know that they do. The idea that somebody can imagine of a Caravan of Dreams on its way to them and that can actually arrive drives them crazy. They focus only on the absurdity of religious concepts and close the gate to that bridge, a bridge to another reality that more have crossed by religious faith alone than in any other way. The path of faith is hard for them because it requires the surrender of the ego. They must find another way to die but they just won't do it quietly. There are a million paths that lead nowhere and those are the ones they're on because they failed to know their hearts desire.

Only love can break your heart and only love can mend it again. That makes the act of surrender terrifying. One can't know in advance that once your heart has truly mended there comes a state of knowledge that prevents it from ever being broken again.

 

[Retro Rob]

The same reason your ignore function doesn't work: you're proving me right:



Edit: on top of that, you claimed to have put me on your ignore list, which is yet ANOTHER lie from you. Yet another notch on the wall proving Sandorski's posts true (see, this is how EVIDENCE works).

Please show me this post and I will concede. I remember simply saying I was ignoring you (not reading or responding to you)

You don't need to add a user to the ignore list to ignore them.