Right. I wasn't bragging...just stating a fact. I think its an absolute shame we have YEC's around today.
Who is bragging?
Also, it's absolutely absurd to insinuate that Atheists are the reason that creationists deny science.
Well sure it is, but that is not what I was stating.
What I was stating is that the poorly crafted message on evolution that atheists and scientists put forth is at least partially to blame for the growth in creationism the last 30 years.
Right. I wasn't bragging...just stating a fact. I think its an absolute shame we have YEC's around today.
what a rock does or does not believe
You're confusing young earth creationists and creationists that simply deny evolution (such as yourself). I assumed you were talking about the latter because YEC do not make up even close to half of the population.
YEC are simply too stupid to even begin to try and reason with. They're denying much more than just evolution. I'm willing to accept that there will always be a section of the population that are simply beyond help.
Remember, this is the DC...you are held to a higher standard of discourse here.
Also, it's absolutely absurd to insinuate that Atheists are the reason that creationists deny science.
That's rich, considering your history of posting in threads in this sub forum.
Again, why should I make an effort to provide you with data that we all (yourself included) know that you won't accept because it doesn't support your agenda?
Why won't you answer this question, and why won't you address this whole issue of your daily loss of memory?
Why do you only post to argue while claiming that you're posting to learn something?
God, if he is anything, is by definition that which we cannot comprehend and therefore there is no reason to try. You can attempt to categorize him all you want but just like defining what exactly "nothing" is with anything more than a "lack of something", God is also undefinable and beyond your comprehension.
Don't provide me with the data -- do it for the benefit of others.
There could be posters reading who would appreciate it. You never know.
Christians are ALMOST as atheistic as I am because they reject the thousands of gods that came before theirs. We atheists simply take the notion one god further.
That is a pretty good line.
It's a Richard Dawkins quote, if I'm not mistaken.
Apparently it was Stephen F. Roberts:
http://freelink.wildlink.com/quote_history.php
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts
But being an agnostic, I haven't actually dismissed any of them. RAmen!
I find the concept of God fascinating. Whether you're a theist or atheist if you're not fascinated by the universe around you, including the people of Earth, and the ideas they express, I feel very bad for you.
So I will share my thoughts on God, because I find this sub forum to be
1) Inhabited by some very intelligent and open minded folks.
3) Tolerant of other people's ideas even if they may seem strange or even antithetical to their own.
4) Willing to look over my shortcomings such as my inability to count to 3 without screwing up. Just kidding about that last one, feel free, in fact I encourage you to find my faults. That is how I learn, and even if I forget to thank you for it, I'd like you to know I do appreciate it.
So let's get to it.
We are going to have to make some suppositions here. I will list them now. In fact most of what I am posting will be supposition. I do not believe these are so, I am merely supposing that if X is so, then Y.
1) God exists. There is no evidence of God's existence, so we will first suppose God exists.
2) God is light. We will also suppose that certain religions who claim that God is light, got at least that much right. Photons. In so far as we understand them. Some religions say God said let there be light, and then there was light.
If this is so then God created himself, and the universe. Then it must follow God is the entire visible universe. He created himself and created everything in it.
3) God is neither omnipotent, omnipresent, nor omniscient. But is benevolent. If he is omnipotent, omniscient and is unwilling to dispense evil, then why worship him, why call him benevolent? If he is unwilling, then why call him good or benevolent?
4) Evil is just darkness, or the lack of light. Evil doesn't exist any more than shadows do. Shadows are not a thing, they are not material nor energy. They are merely the lack of energy or material. Just like cold doesn't exist. Only heat does. Cold is just our way of assigning a word to the property of a lack of heat.
I do not believe humans intend to do harm to each other, nor their environment. I think they just don't know any better. They lack the light, the truth, the knowledge to not want to commit harm. As one religious figure I'm sure you are aware of said as he was tortured on the cross: "Forgive them father for they know not what they do." -Jesus Christ
What insight he had, without any of the luxuries I have of a scientific background and a degree in science from an accredited institution and all of the knowledge of scientists that preceded our current knowledge that our knowledge was built upon.
As one prominent scientist put it "If I have seen further it is by standing on ye shoulders of Giants." -Sir Isaac Newton
I too owe them a debt of gratitude I can never repay. So my sharing of my knowledge as much as I can in the limited time I have will have to suffice. May it benefit those who succeed me as I have benefited from those before me.
So evil doesn't exist anymore. Spelling incorrect on purpose. It should be any more as I wrote it above. But if you agree with me, then evil no longer exists, in your mind. For you, it no longer exists at all. There, I have done away with evil. You are welcome. Well it isn't that simple is it? Let's move on.
All light and all knowledge is just a form of energy. Without energy, humans would have no knowledge, nor exist for that matter. Your thoughts are stored in your brain in the form of electrical, and chemical energy.
These electrical impulses are mediated by virtual photons. Again a supposition due to a lack of evidence but consider the lack of evidence of the Higgs Boson just a short time ago. That didn't stop Peter Higgs from hypothesizing it's existence and we are the better for it.
This is a situation in which I support following an idea despite a lack of evidence. When it is in the pursuit of knowledge and not to do harm as some religious fanatics will have you do.
They will say believe in God merely because someone said so.
That is fine by me. In fact it is the very thing I am doing right now.
What is not fine by me is using that as a stepping stone to commit violence, or any sort of harm on your fellow man or environment.
You must respect your environment and that includes all forms of life in it.
Sometimes it is necessary to end such life if it threatens your own. Be it bacteria or murderous human beings, animals or insects. If a tiger, human or potentially malaria infected mosquito is about to attack you, you have a right to defend yourself in any way you see fit while causing the least harm possible.
So if evil is just darkness, then is dark energy, the energy that is causing the expansion of the universe at an accelerating rate evil?
It seeks to increase darkness which would decrease light.
If all the above is so, then is dark energy a cancer, and is God sick? Perhaps that is why God is more occupied with his own problems and the harm humans cause on each other is of little concern to such a being.
Or perhaps humans were created to solve the problem for him. After all, if God is everything in the universe and we are in it, then we are just an extension of God. Merely a part of him. Like his thumb for example. Or an eyelash. Or his brain. Or just a small part of his brain. A very small part so far. But we are growing. So God is learning. So are we.
It would follow then that destroying things around you. Anything. Would be tantamount to your destroying some of your brain cells.
I realize human's have penchant for self destruction but I ask you to minimize that if and when you can. Drugs are bad. Mmmk? They are not the only thing. A lot of things can destroy your brain cells. A lot of things can destroy you and your environment.
Finally I submit for your approval and suppose that if we are created in his image as according to certain religions then: 5) As we are sentient, so then is the universe.
There is so much more to all of this. But time beckons me to other tasks, and the thread is getting too long for some to want to even begin to read, much less stick with to the end. Perhaps I should write a book someday.
Thank you for reading all of this. I know it's a lot but there's a lot more. If you want I can revise the OP when I find more time to add to it. Let me know. If most of you think it's too long already then I will stop. May no harm come to any of you today or ever. Though I know this is not possible. Yet.
1The way I see it God exists. I can't prove it to those who are unwilling to do the work.
2 God is neither light nor darkness He just is.
3 He is all those things that you mentioned. He is unwilling to do away with evil because it serves a purpose in His creation (or as one demon said to Jesus "Have you come to torture us before the appointed time?" meaning that there is a time limit that evil can go without being punished.
1The way I see it God exists. I can't prove it to those who are unwilling to do the work.
2 God is neither light nor darkness He just is.
3 He is all those things that you mentioned. He is unwilling to do away with evil because it serves a purpose in His creation (or as one demon said to Jesus "Have you come to torture us before the appointed time?" meaning that there is a time limit that evil can go without being punished.
You are making suppositions and declarative statements without being able to back it up with evidence.
Faith is what drives religion, not facts.
- is a cop-out; you are being asked to show the proof; others will work to read/understand and question the proof.
- is a declarative statement based on your faith with nothing to back it up.
- is a declarative statement based on your faith with nothing to back it up. It is a justification for what is happening without accepting the man controls their destiny. To quote a statement from a person that nothing was written down until well after his death as accurate and meaningful is foolish. To take all those "books" with all those writings and state that they were remembered accurately in such precision, years after they were "spoken", requires the leap of faith that you have. Normal people do not operate is that capacity.
Dang, I thought you took a fact-based head beating yesterday, but I'll beat you over the head for completeness sake:
Quote:
Originally Posted by poofyhairguy
Teens are losing their religion, not their theism. Source:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/17/report.millennials.faith/
Just like with evolution, people are finding their own middle ground between two extremes. Youth don't like the hate message of the religions of their parents, but they cling to ideas like heaven, miracles and prayer. Why?
Because it is baked into us, or at least baked into our culture.
If the churches can recraft a more palatable message those people might fall back into religions. 68 percent of the millennials claim to never doubt the existence of God, that means the majority of the young are still theists, just not practicing ones.
Also from the article:
Quote:
"Church is difficult because young people today want to engage actively," Hill said. "They just want to experience God."
More:
Quote:
45 percent of young Americans report praying daily, about the same proportion who said they did in the 1980s and '90s.
That's gotta hurt. No, theism isn't dying, while religion is. I think you need to actually learn what the difference is...they are not the same, ok?
Do what work? You're the one making the claim. Anyone who makes a positive claim retains the responsibility to provide evidence to support their claim.
Show us the evidence that you've seen that has drawn you to that conclusion. Keep in mind that evidence is objective. Arguments like "the world is so complex, it just has to be god" are silly.
Also, address Epicurus's famous quote, please. Your logic illustrates god as malevolent.
The work involves meditation and other training.
I don't have any evidence that I can show you, I just know.
God is not malevolent He is like a computer that records everything at all times.
The work involves meditation and other training.
I don't have any evidence that I can show you, I just know.
God is not malevolent He is like a computer that records everything at all times.