Question Zen 4 builders thread

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eek2121

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2005
3,343
4,932
136
I believe you can limit the max frequency. I may also test that, however I want to test a target temp first. I also need to find my Kill-A-Watt to measure system power. I do wish I had access to SPEC 2017.

A followup to this. Even testing at 85C shows a pretty significant reduction in scores for heavier workloads. I don't have time to continue to test right now since the testing isn't automated (I have an appointment), but Cinebench took quite a hit by dropping down to 85C.
 

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,770
3,081
146
Starting to get restless, still haven't had time to tear down my main rig/water loop and set it up with the new X670E and 7950X. I think there's a big limit to usefulness doing testing and tuning on the CPU with a normal heatsink since it's destined for the loop.

Gigabyte has a new bios revision out, F8b, but it's still AGESA 1.0.0.3a, so I have no idea what they've changed.
 
Reactions: Kaluan

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,665
3,525
136
I'm able to get BIOS 0803 stable on my Asus Crosshair Extreme X670E. Boosting behavior changed quite a bit between 0801 and 0803. I would get random reboots. I found that it was caused by boost speeds spiking too high at times. I capped my good cores to 5.7GHz and my "bad" cores to 5.5GHz. No more reboots and I get nearly the same overall performance.
 

eek2121

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2005
3,343
4,932
136
How are there already used 7950X's for sale? FOMO over Raptor Lake? I won't sell mine a second before I get ahold of a 7950X3D
Sounds like it. It was a guy on ebay, description said he used it for a week and switched to Intel. I can’t judge because I’ll be selling a three week old 7900X shortly.

Hopefully you received a good discount. The 7950X is actually pretty awesome. Even at 142W PPT I was surprised at the performance since it is running circles around my 5950X. AMD definitely pushed this chip way too hard in terms of power, but I definitely think Intel is mostly to blame for that.

I actually wasn’t sure what to expect in terms of clocks and IPC, except a general improvement over the 5950X, however the difference in many benchmarks was staggering, especially in terms of clocks.

IMO AMD’s biggest weakness continues to be bios/uefi/microcode bugs. they definitely have not learned from previous launches. The platform needs to be rock solid from day one. No random BSODs or bugs. If you sit 2 years on a chip and launch $200-$1,000 boards, you need to deliver that experience.

Overall, AMD has actually helped me a ton with non-gaming workloads. One task related to compiling a piece of development software had halved in time. Gaming workloads saw a 3-54% increase. In particular, 7 Days to Die actually runs smoothly on Zen4, gaining around 23% for me. Satisfactory had a 12% increase over my 5950X.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,033
15,983
136
I have to add this. I have 2 670E Taichi motherboards. All was going fine, until one bios version stopped using the discrete card (a 3090TI) and started using the on-board IGP, you could tell by the huge graphics and text. It also was a black screen in linux, but I figured that out, use the IGP port on the motherboard, install older drivers then switch back to using the 3090TI. Well, windows and linix are fine, but the boot sucks with that big ugly text and graphics. First, here is my ASRock support description. (before I figured out the linux problem)

on boot will not use external PCIE
»Problem Description
This was working fine for weeks. All of a sudden on boot it will not use the 3090TI (you can tell as the text gets big) Windows works fine useing it, and the video card, but linux is a black screen as it will not use the 3090TI

And I replied that the bios was still using the IGP even when the bios is set to use "PCIE discrete card" as the primary.
And here was their reply:

Support
9:11 AM (8 hours ago)

to me
Which part you did not understand “ASRock does not support any Linux OS”

ASRock Tech Support
Open Monday to Friday from 9:00AM to 6:00PM PT.

What a nasty reply. I might be done with ASRock boards from now on.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,033
15,983
136

gdansk

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2011
4,142
6,889
136
Mark did you update kernels?
Try booting with the older kernel that worked before and see if the problem is still around. I've had weird problems like that before...
Or reinstalling the Nvidia Linux drivers. That's fixed problems I've had with Linux not using the GPU before.
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and Thor86

alexruiz

Platinum Member
Sep 21, 2001
2,836
556
126
Gigabyte has a new bios revision out, F8b, but it's still AGESA 1.0.0.3a, so I have no idea what they've changed.

I think the Fxb versions include additional memory and pci-e compatibility
If I remember correctly, the Fxa versions are considered alpha, while the Fxb are beta, a step above

Testing F3b for B650 Aorus Elite ax and F6b for X670 Aorus elite ax
3DMark scores seems to be slightly higher.
Will do a cinebench run
 
Reactions: Kaluan

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,033
15,983
136
Mark did you update kernels?
Try booting with the older kernel that worked before and see if the problem is still around. I've had weird problems like that before...
Or reinstalling the Nvidia Linux drivers. That's fixed problems I've had with Linux not using the GPU before.
Nothing to do with kernals. Current problem is that BIOS only uses IGP , even when
bios is set to PCIE.
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and Thor86

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,665
3,525
136
I have to add this. I have 2 670E Taichi motherboards. All was going fine, until one bios version stopped using the discrete card (a 3090TI) and started using the on-board IGP, you could tell by the huge graphics and text. It also was a black screen in linux, but I figured that out, use the IGP port on the motherboard, install older drivers then switch back to using the 3090TI. Well, windows and linix are fine, but the boot sucks with that big ugly text and graphics. First, here is my ASRock support description. (before I figured out the linux problem)

on boot will not use external PCIE
»Problem Description
This was working fine for weeks. All of a sudden on boot it will not use the 3090TI (you can tell as the text gets big) Windows works fine useing it, and the video card, but linux is a black screen as it will not use the 3090TI

And I replied that the bios was still using the IGP even when the bios is set to use "PCIE discrete card" as the primary.
And here was their reply:

Support
9:11 AM (8 hours ago)

to me
Which part you did not understand “ASRock does not support any Linux OS”

ASRock Tech Support
Open Monday to Friday from 9:00AM to 6:00PM PT.

What a nasty reply. I might be done with ASRock boards from now on.
I know the labor market is still tight, but I didn't know companies were still willing to hang on to trash employees like this.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,665
3,525
136
Nothing to do with kernals. Current problem is that BIOS only uses IGP , even when
bios is set to PCIE.
No option to disable it? The Asus line of X670E boards recently received unofficial beta BIOSs that now have the option to disable it. Maybe there is a beta BIOS from ASRock with the same option.
 

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
1,611
785
136
I'm having as bad luck with 0803 as I had with 0802, they refuse to run anything but JEDEC RAM speeds/timings. Back to 0801 for now

Working on tightening up my timings at least. I'll soon have to read some theory about it, since I think some of them are suppose to have certain relationship to each other, for now I'm only lowering them.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,033
15,983
136
I'm having as bad luck with 0803 as I had with 0802, they refuse to run anything but JEDEC RAM speeds/timings. Back to 0801 for now

Working on tightening up my timings at least. I'll soon have to read some theory about it, since I think some of them are suppose to have certain relationship to each other, for now I'm only lowering them.
Have you tried any EXPO memory ? For me, it worked like a charm, even though Intel memory I had, it would run way below spec.
 
Reactions: Kaluan

Hail The Brain Slug

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2005
3,770
3,081
146
IMO AMD’s biggest weakness continues to be bios/uefi/microcode bugs. they definitely have not learned from previous launches. The platform needs to be rock solid from day one. No random BSODs or bugs. If you sit 2 years on a chip and launch $200-$1,000 boards, you need to deliver that experience. .

I feel like this is largely board and board vendor dependent. I haven't had any notable issues on my Gigabyte board that I didn't cause myself. If I was the type of person who was content simply turning EXPO on and calling it a day, I'd have had a flawless experience.

But nooooooooooo, I have to try to screw with every possible setting and tweak all the things.
 

eek2121

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2005
3,343
4,932
136
Nothing to do with kernals. Current problem is that BIOS only uses IGP , even when
bios is set to PCIE.
Yep, it is even worse for me. My ASUS board thinks the GPU isn’t present. Windows finds it just fine. On occasion it does show the boot/bios screens.

I have to keep an HDMI cable hooked up to change BIOS settings.
I feel like this is largely board and board vendor dependent. I haven't had any notable issues on my Gigabyte board that I didn't cause myself. If I was the type of person who was content simply turning EXPO on and calling it a day, I'd have had a flawless experience.

But nooooooooooo, I have to try to screw with every possible setting and tweak all the things.

I have read about lots of issues from the Gigabyte camp as well. As with all board vendors, if you are lucky, it works, if not, well.

I am still happy with my purchase. Despite the bugs, the system is fast and stable.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
5,213
8,378
136
I don't care about their support for linux. Why does the bios not use the discrete card, even though it is set to do that . It used to work, now it does not. They ignore that.
It's the cop out card for many companies' customer support: "Use unsupported OS? Can't and won't help no matter what."
Best to pretend to use a supported OS an explain the issue in that context. Though going by the descriptions so far it does sound like AMD may have done some incompatible UEFI changes in AGESA that are not yet supported/expected by the Linux kernel which is very disappointing to hear.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,033
15,983
136
It's the cop out card for many companies' customer support: "Use unsupported OS? Can't and won't help no matter what."
Best to pretend to use a supported OS an explain the issue in that context. Though going by the descriptions so far it does sound like AMD may have done some incompatible UEFI changes in AGESA that are not yet supported/expected by the Linux kernel which is very disappointing to hear.
This box is windows/linux dual boot. The problem is BEFORE is starts to load the OS, its not using the discrete card at that time.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
5,213
8,378
136
This box is windows/linux dual boot. The problem is BEFORE is starts to load the OS, its not using the discrete card at that time.
Indeed. And laptops are notoriously affected of this as well. AMD improved a lot since last year, but it seem that still didn't prepare the launch of the iGPU on AM5.
 
Reactions: Kaluan
Jul 27, 2020
24,820
17,262
146
Feels like a rushed launch. They really wanted to get some marketshare before Raptor Lake but it didn't work out that well for them. Should have come out of the gate with the X3D version.
 
Reactions: Kaluan

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
1,611
785
136
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