Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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HurleyBird

Platinum Member
Apr 22, 2003
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For serious AI work you'll want a top end workstation if you're doing the work locally. If you aren't a $200 Chromebook that can SSH into a workstation is about as good as anything else.

Memory capacity is king. Strix Halo + 64GB RAM will beat a 4090 in any AI task if you scale it up sufficiently. And for local LLMs where capacity is by far the biggest bottleneck, it won't even be close.

Strix Halo directly competes for the semi-pro market that is buying 4090s instead of RTX 6000s. Significantly slower for tasks that fit inside 24GB, but can be used for tasks a 4090 can't touch.
 

adroc_thurston

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2023
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Memory capacity is king. Strix Halo + 64GB RAM will beat a 4090 in any AI task if you scale it up sufficiently. And for local LLMs where capacity is by far the biggest bottleneck, it won't even be close.

Strix Halo directly competes for the semi-pro market that is buying 4090s instead of RTX 6000s. Significantly slower for tasks that fit inside 24GB, but can be used for tasks a 4090 can't touch.
see?
smart.
It gets day1 ROCm too!
 

poke01

Senior member
Mar 8, 2022
998
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Memory capacity is king. Strix Halo + 64GB RAM will beat a 4090 in any AI task if you scale it up sufficiently. And for local LLMs where capacity is by far the biggest bottleneck, it won't even be close.

Strix Halo directly competes for the semi-pro market that is buying 4090s instead of RTX 6000s. Significantly slower for tasks that fit inside 24GB, but can be used for tasks a 4090 can't touch.
This isn’t anything new, companies buy MacBooks with 128gb ram. They are incredibly popular because of this.

Strix Halo will bring it the Windows world albeit with half the capacity of a M3 Max MacBook and before you say Mac isn’t a competitor it sure is in the premium segment.
 

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
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Wait wait wait, where did the talk of LP island/LP cores in Strix (Halo) IOD came from?

Was there some leak saying that that I missed or is this just some wild seronxposting? This feature was #1 on my wishlist (that or some advanced packaging chiplet tech that would not have power overhead)...
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! SHAME HIM FOR NOT READING THE FORUMS ENOUGH!
Several people from other here dug up old patents and made educated guesses, then Uzzi confirmed that they were correct.

Anandtech doesn't even need leaks, we just have people with enough knowledge to guess accurately!
 

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
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What they strip out might be the additional transistors that allows Zen 5 to clock high
I'm sorry for asking the noob question but how do "additional transistors make you clock high" exactly?
The combined effect of reducing buffer cells due to a lower clock target + prolific use of a high density library should result in a very compact, power efficient core.
Same question, different phrasing, what's a buffer cell? A register? Does having more clocks require more registers to deal with the extra throughput?
What's a high density library in this case?
 

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
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Memory capacity is king. Strix Halo + 64GB RAM
Ok we need to put a pin in this.
I THOUGHT Halo was 16Go.
Since a few days people say it's 32.
Now 64?

Are you all just randomly throwing darts at this or do we have any proper information?
Strix Halo directly competes for the semi-pro market that is buying 4090s instead of RTX 6000s. Significantly slower for tasks that fit inside 24GB, but can be used for tasks a 4090 can't touch.
For inference that's true. For training, different story.
 

Tuna-Fish

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2011
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Ok we need to put a pin in this.
I THOUGHT Halo was 16Go.
Since a few days people say it's 32.
Now 64?

Are you all just randomly throwing darts at this or do we have any proper information?

16GB is the lowest you can go and still populate the entire interface using chips that are still in mass production. So that's a lower bound. Recently, someone noticed a bunch of shipping manifests for Strix Halo testing boards, some of which had 32GB and others had 64GB. 128 is also possible with chips in mass production, but that configuration has not been seen in the wild.
 

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
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16GB is the lowest you can go and still populate the entire interface using chips that are still in mass production. So that's a lower bound. Recently, someone noticed a bunch of shipping manifests for Strix Halo testing boards, some of which had 32GB and others had 64GB.
Ok, 64Go could actually sell quite a lot to certain professional categories. And ML inference users too, ofc.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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I'm sorry for asking the noob question but how do "additional transistors make you clock high" exactly?

Same question, different phrasing, what's a buffer cell? A register? Does having more clocks require more registers to deal with the extra throughput?
What's a high density library in this case?

A buffer cell outputs the same signal as the input but in a faster/cleaner way. So, if a logic cell output has really slow rise/fall times that you need to improve, you can use a buffer cell to take the slow rise/fall time signal and make it into a fast rise/fall time signal. Area and power consumption is the trade-off.

Edit: I'm describing a simple digital logic buffer. There are other types of buffers as well.
 
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Thibsie

Senior member
Apr 25, 2017
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A buffer cell outputs the same signal as the input but in a faster/cleaner way. So, if a logic cell output has really slow rise/fall times that you need to improve, you can use a buffer cell to take the slow rise/fall time signal and make it into a fast rise/fall time signal. Area and power consumption is the trade-off.

Edit: I'm describing a simple digital logic buffer. There are other types of buffers as well.
At a cost of a bit of latency ?
 
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