Question Zen 6 Speculation Thread

[511]

Why would DMR be anything special if Panther/Coyote Cove in NVL looks like ass?

Let's just say it's a bigger upgrade than GNR was

 

[Io Magnesso]

Are all models equipped with V-cache?
That's a bit suspicious...
The cost of V-cache and the cost of post-processing (advanced packaging) are never cheap. It's good if you want the ultimate performance in the game Not all people are like that... For those who want to focus on cost performance, all models V-Cache as standard equipment is a nuisance that increases the cost in a sense…
On top of that, you can see the top model of HX, but the V-CACHE standard on the laptop is a concern for power consumption.

 

[Kaffeekenan]

Why would DMR be anything special if Panther/Coyote Cove in NVL looks like ass?

What exactly looks like "ass" in NVL??

 

[igor_kavinski]

Let's just say it's a bigger upgrade than GNR was

Any specifics? What bottlenecks have been alleviated?

 

[adroc_thurston]

What exactly looks like "ass" in NVL??

Pretty much everything.

 

[Io Magnesso]

Mi400 is for the future, but, interestingly, in a leaked TSMC document, there will be N2 Mi400 wafers being processed in late 2025. Meaning, among the first N2 wafers being processed.

The production cycle of AMD "Mi" products is long. From 1st wafers to final product. I forgot the exact time but somewhere between 6 months and 1 year. So, to sell Mi400 in 2026, its wafers have to go into the oven long time before the product shipments.

In other words, the full-scale shipment will start in 2027. In 2026, we will start shipping in the second half, Or, in the form of pre-deployment
Well, I think it's similar to NVIDIA.

 

[Io Magnesso]

Pretty much everything.

Wonderful
Now that nova Lake is made with TSMC N2, it's proved that people who said they can expect it are just idiots.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Pretty much everything.

Deciphering and decoding your mind is a seriously arduous task, man.

You were impressed with Lunar Lake or considered it good at least.

Panther Lake is an improved version of Lunar Lake, just without MoP. So it's gotta be good too, right? And Nova Lake has similar or slightly better core architecture than Panther Lake so it should be good too, no? So how did you go from "Lunar Lake not bad" to "NVL is pretty much everything ass"?

 

[Joe NYC]

Yeah, unless Intel decides to go kamikaze and put a massive dent in AMD's gaming marketshare by pricing their bLLC chips too aggressively.

The new Intel CEO (LBT) is trying to finesse a financial turnaround of Intel. Because (something most people are unaware of), Intel is quite close to the abyss. Without a course correction, without firing Gelsinger, Intel would simply run out of cash.

There is not any room for any Gelsinger style bravado for Intel. Just comes to cold hard cash, how to extract most of it from the market place, so that Intel can survive to fight another day.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Panther Lake is an improved version of Lunar Lake

No.

just without MoP

Yes.

So it's gotta be good too, right?

No it eschews BL goodies to hit less miserable price points/margins.

And Nova Lake has similar or slightly better core architecture than Panther Lake so it should be good too, no?

We're talking -S.

So how did you go from "Lunar Lake not bad" to "NVL is pretty much everything ass"?

LNL is a unique one-off ULT product that has no successor.
PTL and NVL are more of the same Intel stuff, just with the big core being worse-than-ever.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Just comes to cold hard cash, how to extract most of it from the market place, so that Intel can survive to fight another day.

LBT needs to hope that there are enough AMD-allergic Intel fans in the market to pay $700 to $800 for their bLLC Nova Lake chips.

 

[Io Magnesso]

Deciphering and decoding your mind is a seriously arduous task, man.

You were impressed with Lunar Lake or considered it good at least.

Panther Lake is an improved version of Lunar Lake, just without MoP. So it's gotta be good too, right? And Nova Lake has similar or slightly better core architecture than Panther Lake so it should be good too, no? So how did you go from "Lunar Lake not bad" to "NVL is pretty much everything ass"?

Panther Lake has XE3, it's interesting
If AMD, which has been trying to evolve APU so far, will at least use RDNA3.5 for a long time from now on.
Personally, I would be happy if a new GPU generation would be installed as the generation progressed. The new one is better

 

[Io Magnesso]

No.

Yes.

No it eschews BL goodies to hit less miserable price points/margins.

We're talking -S.

LNL is a unique one-off ULT product that has no successor.
PTL and NVL are more of the same Intel stuff, just with the big core being worse-than-ever.

Wonderful
I'm so moved that I can't speak

 

[igor_kavinski]

PTL and NVL are more of the same Intel stuff, just with the big core being worse-than-ever.

Most consumers in the market aren't into technical merits so Intel will do just fine I think. Not stellar. Just enough to get by. That's why they are still limping along despite everything.

 

[Io Magnesso]

What are ULT products?

 

[Joe NYC]

I am pretty sure that the server division will always be a number one goal for AMD. It is what has taken them where they are today. And the client CPUs use the server chiplets, the CPU ones. The IOD I am sure is quite different.

It is also worthwhile to keep in mind that the last time when the server division took 3D capacity from client, for Milan-X, the gains for Milan-X were barely perceptible and the client division decisively lost the performance crown to Alder Lake.

Which probably cost (on the client side) 10x to 100x the imperceptible gains of Milan-X. Maybe intention was good, for Milan-X to compete well against Sapphire Rapids HBM, but SPR-HBM also fizzled out... In the end, there was no need to rush Milan-X

 

[Joe NYC]

If you wanted your competitor to panic, wouldn't you leak FAKE roadmaps that scare them more than the real plans would?

I was thinking about the morale inside Intel, being "resistance is futile" after they see the Zen 6 roadmap.

 

[igor_kavinski]

What are ULT products?

Ultra Low TDP

https://portwell.com/products/detail.php?CUSTCHAR1=WEBS-5482-W

 

[Io Magnesso]

Most consumers in the market aren't into technical merits so Intel will do just fine I think. Not stellar. Just enough to get by. That's why they are still limping along despite everything.

Well, that's right, it's still difficult to overturn that system...
Well, it's easier for AMD to take the share if Intel maintains it, It's better than being stolen by ARM
We're just competing for the same x86 market margins

 

[igor_kavinski]

I was thinking about the morale inside Intel, being "resistance is futile" after they see the Zen 6 roadmap.

They have been that way since Meteor Lake at least.

 

[Io Magnesso]

Ultra Low TDP

https://portwell.com/products/detail.php?CUSTCHAR1=WEBS-5482-W

View attachment 126722

I see, thank you very much But
The TDP itself is, except for the 2W of the memory module. It's about 15W, which is the same TDP as the conventional U SKU.
Well, LUNAR LAKE has a better low power consumption function, but... In terms of TDP, it's the same as U SKU

 

[Joe NYC]

In other words, the full-scale shipment will start in 2027. In 2026, we will start shipping in the second half, Or, in the form of pre-deployment
Well, I think it's similar to NVIDIA.

AMD is talking about 1 year cadence with Instinct product. Mi355 was pulled in from H2 2025 to mid 2025, so 1 year cadence dictates 2026, not 2027

 

[Io Magnesso]

AMD is talking about 1 year cadence with Instinct product. Mi355 was pulled in from H2 2025 to mid 2025, so 1 year cadence dictates 2026, not 2027

Well, that's true, but NVIDIA also updates it every one year. However It takes a while for a lot of it to actually be distributed
I know what you are saying

 

[Doug S]

Without a course correction, without firing Gelsinger, Intel would simply run out of cash.

Too bad they didn't do what a normal person would do and keep some cash/short term investments as a rainy day fund. That they continued to do stock buybacks and maintain dividends even when they saw their earnings cratering was folly. They may have been worried about negative reaction from Wall Street, but Wall Street reacted far more negatively when they were no longer able to sweep things under the rug.

Perhaps (I haven't bothered to check) Intel's top execs are compensated based on EPS targets, which would have given them a personal incentive to do buybacks even if the company can't really afford it.

 

[Fjodor2001]

This NVL with big cache will probably well > $700

NVL-S 54C + bLLC for $700 (or somewhat above) sounds like a good deal