Review Zen4 3D review thread

[Hitman928]

Thread to focus on Zen4 3D cache CPUs.

New gaming king (as most expected), though the 2 CCD 7950x3d does seem to have issues with some games, more than I would expect of it getting stuck on the "wrong" CCD. I imagine it will get cleared up with subsequent updates but we'll see. Simulated 7800X3D showed no such issues and overall has the gaming lead (real product might be slightly slower though depending on in game clocks).

Computerbase also has the 7950x3d as the gaming champ. They (and TPU) also show that efficiency while gaming is extremely good.

Ryzen 9 7950X3D im Test gegen 5800X3D und 13900K(S)

Zen 4 3D ist da. Im Test erweist sich AMDs Ryzen 9 7950X3D gegen 7950X, 5800X3D und Core i9-13900K(S) als schnell und effizient.

www.computerbase.de

Just to toot my own horn a little, it landed spot on with my prediction of fastest gaming CPU but not significantly so over a 13900k on average, but with much higher efficiency.

Additional reviews, will add more later.

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D processor review

We review the new Ryzen 9 7950X3D processor from AMD. The much-anticipated processor series comes with an added cache that will help predominantly with gaming. This processor series was designed for ...

www.guru3d.com

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Review - Best of Both Worlds

The Ryzen 9 7950X3D is the spearhead of the AMD Zen 4 X3D lineup. In our performance review we test AMD's new 16-core flagship with dozens of applications and 14 games at up to 4K, to see whether AMD can take the performance crown from Intel, how power consumption is affected, and what can be...

www.techpowerup.com

The AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Review: AMD's Fastest Gaming Processor

www.anandtech.com

Gamers Nexus

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Linux Performance Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D Review: AMD Retakes Gaming Crown with 3D V-Cache

AMD takes a bite out of Raptor Lake.

www.tomshardware.com

AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D review: Team Red retakes the lead with its best CPU ever

The AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D is the best gaming CPU there is, and it's not close

www.techradar.com

 

[AtenRa]

Excellent CPU the 7800X3D but for 2023 its too expensive for 8-cores, Im starting to believe we are in the first stages of CPU stagnation again and this time is AMD.

 

[Asterox]

hmm impressive result. Average Only 50w !!

View attachment 79057

You need more details, or in this way an exact comparison in a certain game.

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D im Test

Am sehnlichsten erwartet, als letzter gestartet, aber jetzt ist er da: Der AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D mit 3D V-Cache im Test.

www.computerbase.de

 

[CP5670]

I'm surprised by how often the 7800X3D beats the 7950X3D across many games. No wonder they were holding off on releasing it. It shows the Windows scheduler really doesn't work properly yet. The 7950X3D might be interesting in old games that are CPU limited by one thread.

 

[H433x0n]

If I was still an AMD shareholder I’d be pretty pissed that this didn’t launch with AM5.

Can somebody make a good case why it didn’t?

 

[biostud]

Excellent CPU the 7800X3D but for 2023 its too expensive for 8-cores, Im starting to believe we are in the first stages of CPU stagnation again and this time is AMD.

Why do you believe that, when the platform already has 12 and 16 core CPUs?

Pricewise it had to compete with the 13700K which obviously is much better in multicore, but for how many will that matter? and whether cache or e-cores will age best for gamers only time will tell.

 

[Markfw]

If I was still an AMD shareholder I’d be pretty pissed that this didn’t launch with AM5.

Can somebody make a good case why it didn’t?

If you were a gamer, and one CU cost $250 more than the other and the cheaper one was faster in games, which one would you buy ? AMD wants money, and the investors should be happy.

 

[IEC]

If I was still an AMD shareholder I’d be pretty pissed that this didn’t launch with AM5.

Can somebody make a good case why it didn’t?

You must be new here. Welcome to the forums. We usually pillory shareholders or other financially-motivated ilk on this forum. Righteously so. Sometimes even giving them a veritable scarlet letter on their forum accounts if we don't ban them outright.

IMO it was 100% about money by saving the best [7800X3D] for last. You have 6+ months to collect the early adopter tax from everyone on the bleeding edge and by trickling out the higher core count and higher margin parts first you extract as much as you can out of the high margin price-insensitive customers as possible. Only then you release the part everybody wants for high-end gaming at a more mainstream price. Typical move for profit? Yes. Scummy? Yes.

If I was a shareholder I'd probably approve of this move. I'm not, so I disapprove.

 

[CP5670]

I'm not that price sensitive and like the extra frequency of the 7950X3D for older games, but it makes no sense to pay more for something that is slower half the time and is unpredictable when it happens. The whole core affinity thing feels like a hassle that can be avoided with the 7800X3D.

Getting your hands on one will be tough though, I expect them to sell out in seconds tomorrow.

 

[AtenRa]

Why do you believe that, when the platform already has 12 and 16 core CPUs?

Pricewise it had to compete with the 13700K which obviously is much better in multicore, but for how many will that matter? and whether cache or e-cores will age best for gamers only time will tell.

We had $450-500 8-core CPUs since 2017, its now 2023 and 8-core CPUs should have been mainstream by now at prices of $200-250 not $450.

 

[H433x0n]

You must be new here. Welcome to the forums. We usually pillory shareholders or other financially-motivated ilk on this forum. Righteously so. Sometimes even giving them a veritable scarlet letter on their forum accounts if we don't ban them outright.

IMO it was 100% about money by saving the best [7800X3D] for last. You have 6+ months to collect the early adopter tax from everyone on the bleeding edge and by trickling out the higher core count and higher margin parts first you extract as much as you can out of the high margin price-insensitive customers as possible. Only then you release the part everybody wants for high-end gaming at a more mainstream price. Typical move for profit? Yes. Scummy? Yes.

If I was a shareholder I'd probably approve of this move. I'm not, so I disapprove.

I am new here and I didn’t know the rules about focusing too heavily on the market impacts, apologies.

I get the counter argument, I just believe that the initial Zen 4 launch would’ve made a huge splash and been received more positively had the 7800X3D came out with the initial release.

Anyway, that’s the last of that topic from me.

 

[Hitman928]

Nvm

 

[blckgrffn]

I am new here and I didn’t know the rules about focusing too heavily on the market impacts, apologies.

I get the counter argument, I just believe that the initial Zen 4 launch would’ve made a huge splash and been received more positively had the 7800X3D came out with the initial release.

Anyway, that’s the last of that topic from me.

Eh, we still have fun talking about it

It's quite possible that it wasn't ready when AM5 launched, and they couldn't hold back that ecosystem forever.

Also, it's likely the 3D layers add time/cost to production and its just not feasible to have all AM5 CPUs use that tech. Now DDR5 is cheaper/more mature and the motherboards firmware is much more baked, making it the perfect time to break AM5 wide open.

I expect this thing to be a mid-range gaming darling, so if you can't get it tomorrow maybe just wait a bit. Seems like significantly better options won't be available until 2024? Later in 2024?

I am still not seeing a compelling reason to move away from my 5800X3D/570S platform for which my wallet is thankful.

 

[Mopetar]

If I was still an AMD shareholder I’d be pretty pissed that this didn’t launch with AM5.

Can somebody make a good case why it didn’t?

It might not have been ready in time for the launch. It's been a little over six months since the launch of Zen 4, and even the first v-cache parts took around 5 months to come out. Maybe they could have launched in more limited quantities, but then people complain when you have to pay a $100 scalper tax if you want one.

I don't even really think it changes much with regards to sales or AM5 adoption as AMD let people know roughly when the v-cache parts were coming and anyone who really wanted one was probably going to wait.

I do t think there are too many people who would buy a new 7700X and then upgrade it to Zen4D as soon as they could. Even though there may be a few who would do this, it doesn't change much as there's now a used 7700X on the market that means one fewer new 7700X sold now.

I'm not sure the pricing matters much either as for ~$320 you can have what's still the second best gaming CPU in several games. AMD's bigger issue is the sub-$200 part of the market where there's nothing for AM5, which is limiting adoption more than anything else.

 

[Hans Gruber]

If I was still an AMD shareholder I’d be pretty pissed that this didn’t launch with AM5.

Can somebody make a good case why it didn’t?

I got shouted down on this forum for asking the same question back during the Zen 4 launch. It was after the 13 series of Intel CPU's basically smoked the Zen 4 processors. Then AMD released the non X variants consuming 65w. That would have been far more compelling because they would have continued AMD's sipping power concept. The X3D CPU's would have taken the gaming crown on launch and the non X CPU's would have won the efficiency title. Both important in my opinion.

 

[Hail The Brain Slug]

I got shouted down on this forum for asking the same question back during the Zen 4 launch. It was after the 13 series of Intel CPU's basically smoked the Zen 4 processors. Then AMD released the non X variants consuming 65w. That would have been far more compelling because they would have continued AMD's sipping power concept. The X3D CPU's would have taken the gaming crown on launch and the non X CPU's would have won the efficiency title. Both important in my opinion.

It's been obvious that the V-Cache was not ready when AM5 launched back in September 2022. This isn't 5800X3D all over again where they are allocating all the dies to Milan-X first and then leaving the scraps for consumer - As far as I can tell Genoa-X has not launched yet and they prioritized the consumer SKU launches, which means there was no delay in putting this out on AM5.

 

[Kocicak]

Add to that, you will be able to upgrade to Zen 5 3D, and most likely Zen 6/3D on the same board.

...

There is not only socket compatibility, but also chipset compatibility. I cannot believe that you will be able to run the last CPUs for AM5 socket in the first gen boards.

BTW the efficiency comparison with Intel CPUs is influenced by the speeds these CPUs are forced to run out of the box. Reasonable settings would make these CPUs look much less ridiculous.

I wonder if the cost is the only reason why AMD released the two chiplet CPUs with just one cash die. Because I can imagine that a lot of people would like to pay few dollars more for the double cash CPUs. Perhaps AMD simply does not have enough of these dies?

 

[Hans Gruber]

It's been obvious that the V-Cache was not ready when AM5 launched back in September 2022. This isn't 5800X3D all over again where they are allocating all the dies to Milan-X first and then leaving the scraps for consumer - As far as I can tell Genoa-X has not launched yet and they prioritized the consumer SKU launches, which means there was no delay in putting this out on AM5.

I hear you but it makes it look like AMD is trying to one up Intel with the X3D CPU's. In other words, they lost to Intel this round and now they are trying to reclaim the gaming crown. Had the released the X3D back in September, they would have been the gaming champion this round. Had they released the non X 65w CPU's on release. It would have taken pressure off overall performance between Intel and AMD and shined a light on super efficiency and performance.

 

[IEC]

There is not only socket compatibility, but also chipset compatibility. I cannot believe that you will be able to run the last CPUs for AM5 socket in the first gen boards.

Why is AM5 socket longevity not believable? I have a Ryzen 5600X running on my X370 Taichi motherboard in a friend's rig currently. That motherboard has literally had 3 different Ryzen CPUs in it starting from 1st gen to 3rd gen.

That platform longevity has a lot to do with why AM4 still outsells the latest and greatest from both major manufacturers. $100 mobo, $60 ram, $170 for a CPU gives a lot of budget for everything else. And there's still room to socket in a 5800X3D down the road for gaming. Or a 5950X for productivity.

I fully expect to be able to upgrade my CPU in my X670E board through at least 2025 if not 2026 and hand down the previous chip(s) to other motherboards.

 

[Markfw]

Why is AM5 socket longevity not believable? I have a Ryzen 5600X running on my X370 Taichi motherboard in a friend's rig currently. That motherboard has literally had 3 different Ryzen CPUs in it starting from 1st gen to 3rd gen.

That platform longevity has a lot to do with why AM4 still outsells the latest and greatest from both major manufacturers. $100 mobo, $60 ram, $170 for a CPU gives a lot of budget for everything else. And there's still room to socket in a 5800X3D down the road for gaming. Or a 5950X for productivity.

I fully expect to be able to upgrade my CPU in my X670E board through at least 2025 if not 2026 and hand down the previous chip(s) to other motherboards.

I have a 1700x, a 2700x, a 3950x and a 5950x, all running on x370 motherboards, thats 4 gens. I can see AM5 being the same way easily.

 

[Ranulf]

AMD's bigger issue is the sub-$200 part of the market where there's nothing for AM5, which is limiting adoption more than anything else.

They're just doing what they've been doing for a couple of years now. If you want low end parts, buy the last gen stuff on sale. Neither AMD nor Intel have anything compelling in the sub $200 market sadly. 5700x at sub $200 is the best option I think. 5500/5600 best for cheap end. Best Intel can do is 12400F at $160. i3 chips went from being bargain babes, the new deal darlings to pointless at over $100.

 

[biostud]

We had $450-500 8-core CPUs since 2017, its now 2023 and 8-core CPUs should have been mainstream by now at prices of $200-250 not $450.

You can have 8 cores for $329, but obviously the fastest gaming CPU will be sold with a premium.

I might be wrong, but I don't expect games to take good use of more than 8 cores for the next four years.

 

[biostud]

When I first planned going AM5 I thought the 3D cache parts would first arrive in Q3'23 and that the 7700X would have been 5-10% faster than it is compared to the 5800X3D, and I would stick with the 7700X. But with 7800X3D launching so close, I'll end up buying that instead, even though for all intend and purposes the 7700X is better value for my needs.

 

[Ranulf]

I got shouted down on this forum for asking the same question back during the Zen 4 launch. It was after the 13 series of Intel CPU's basically smoked the Zen 4 processors. Then AMD released the non X variants consuming 65w. That would have been far more compelling because they would have continued AMD's sipping power concept. The X3D CPU's would have taken the gaming crown on launch and the non X CPU's would have won the efficiency title. Both important in my opinion.

They should have released the 65w parts at the same time yes. Maybe there was an initial supply issue or it was about milking the early adopters. For me, the most interesting part was if AMD would wait long to release the 65w chips, like they did with Zen3. Competition and the economy said, no. The 3D stuff was taking them longer to get ready apparently. The rumors all pointed to them showing up within 6 months after launch so the informed and patient waited.

There is not only socket compatibility, but also chipset compatibility. I cannot believe that you will be able to run the last CPUs for AM5 socket in the first gen boards.

AMD has said they will support AM5 through 2025 I believe. I'll believe it when I see it but they seem to have stuck their neck out more after the past.

Why is AM5 socket longevity not believable?

Past experience. AMD only got around to allowing zen3 on 300 series boards after time and customer outrage as it were. Along with the cheapo boards getting support before the 300 mobos. I have no faith that some little thing won't pop up that means you can't run a Ryzen 8000/9000 in a 650/670 mobo. Hopefully it won't but why trust these companies on this stuff at all?

 

[Hans Gruber]

When I first planned going AM5 I thought the 3D cache parts would first arrive in Q3'23 and that the 7700X would have been 5-10% faster than it is compared to the 5800X3D, and I would stick with the 7700X. But with 7800X3D launching so close, I'll end up buying that instead, even though for all intend and purposes the 7700X is better value for my needs.

Everybody has their opinions. The higher TDP of the x series Zen 4 doesn't amount to much. Other than using a lot of power with a high and very hot running CPU's compared to Zen 3.

You are better off with a 7700 or a 7900 and OCing it out of the box. Lower power consumption and nearly if not identical performance to the 7700x at a lower price. 65w is real bargain.

 

[ondma]

Eh, we still have fun talking about it

It's quite possible that it wasn't ready when AM5 launched, and they couldn't hold back that ecosystem forever.

Also, it's likely the 3D layers add time/cost to production and its just not feasible to have all AM5 CPUs use that tech. Now DDR5 is cheaper/more mature and the motherboards firmware is much more baked, making it the perfect time to break AM5 wide open.

I expect this thing to be a mid-range gaming darling, so if you can't get it tomorrow maybe just wait a bit. Seems like significantly better options won't be available until 2024? Later in 2024?

I am still not seeing a compelling reason to move away from my 5800X3D/570S platform for which my wallet is thankful.

If it were a time/cost/feasibility thing though, why didnt they come out with the 7800x3d first? Would have even given them more time to work on the scheduler. Seems like a profit motive to me, but I dont really have a problem with that. Everyone knew the 7800x3d was coming, and if they were too impatient to wait, then they have to pay the early adopter tax.