Discussion Leading Edge Foundry Node advances (TSMC, Samsung Foundry, Intel)

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DisEnchantment

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2017
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TSMC's N7 EUV is now in its second year of production and N5 is contributing to revenue for TSMC this quarter. N3 is scheduled for 2022 and I believe they have a good chance to reach that target.


N7 performance is more or less understood.


This year and next year TSMC is mainly increasing capacity to meet demands.

For Samsung the nodes are basically the same from 7LPP to 4 LPE, they just add incremental scaling boosters while the bulk of the tech is the same.

Samsung is already shipping 7LPP and will ship 6LPP in H2. Hopefully they fix any issues if at all.
They have two more intermediate nodes in between before going to 3GAE, most likely 5LPE will ship next year but for 4LPE it will probably be back to back with 3GAA since 3GAA is a parallel development with 7LPP enhancements.




Samsung's 3GAA will go for HVM in 2022 most likely, similar timeframe to TSMC's N3.
There are major differences in how the transistor will be fabricated due to the GAA but density for sure Samsung will be behind N3.
But there might be advantages for Samsung with regards to power and performance, so it may be better suited for some applications.
But for now we don't know how much of this is true and we can only rely on the marketing material.

This year there should be a lot more available wafers due to lack of demand from Smartphone vendors and increased capacity from TSMC and Samsung.
Lots of SoCs which dont need to be top end will be fabbed with N7 or 7LPP/6LPP instead of N5, so there will be lots of wafers around.

Most of the current 7nm designs are far from the advertized density from TSMC and Samsung. There is still potential for density increase compared to currently shipping products.
N5 is going to be the leading foundry node for the next couple of years.

For a lot of fabless companies out there, the processes and capacity available are quite good.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,256
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Sam is doubling down on AI infrastructure. May be there is some truth to the ridiculous news above.
No there isn't. Both the AI scaremongering and now the trillion dollar scheme are ways of attracting gullible investor fortunes. We can't have something so complex as AI built with budgets we can understand, that would be trivial, subject to competition and possibly a scam. However, if the numbers are also out of this world, then surely this is serious business backed by many corps, banks and countries. Nobody else will be able to compete at this scale, therefore we can and should invest ASAP to catch the big ROI wave.

The absurdity of all this is even more pronounced as companies like Intel fail to find customers for their new fabs. You would think Sam would be all over them, buying capacity at a discount. Instead he's touring the world, showing people the carrot while checking out their bank accounts.
 
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Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
677
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View attachment 93907
Samsung gonna lose Nvidia as a customer?
I am not surprised at all. Either SF's yield is too poor or TSMC's yield is too good or both, you will see more OEMs switch back to TSMC. SF did offer discounted prepayment, but customers are really care about the yield and PPA.

Tesla could be another one leaving SF, Google could be next...

Qualcomm will stay with SF but they only asking SF to make low to mid end SoC. All flagship SoC will be manufactured by TSMC.

Meanwhile, I heard IFS is offering free prepayment for Intel Next process, go figure.
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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Samsung needs to hire someone experienced ex-TSMC, pay them at least twice as much as they were making at TSMC and give that person complete control of hiring and firing personnel. That's the only way I think they can salvage the situation. The current people there have consistently proven that they don't have what it takes.
 
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Tigerick

Senior member
Apr 1, 2022
677
559
106
Samsung needs to hire someone experienced ex-TSMC, pay them at least twice as much as they were making at TSMC and give that person complete control of hiring and firing personnel. That's the only way I think they can salvage the situation. The current people there have consistently proven that they don't have what it takes.
Both SF and IFS are indeed hiring some people from TSMC. It is just working cultures are different. Taiwanese are known for hardworking and if you are interested, go check out Operation Night Hawk from TSMC..

 

FlameTail

Platinum Member
Dec 15, 2021
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TSMC has no shortage of customers.

Samsung, meanwhile....

has Samsung as their customer.

Samsung LSI will leverage Samsung Foundry's SF3 GAAFET node for Exynos 2500 SoC.
 

FlameTail

Platinum Member
Dec 15, 2021
2,356
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That TSMC has so many customers is a huge advantage.

It allows them to ramp up nodes quickly and to high volumes, fix yields fast, and reduce costs by economies of scale.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
3,687
1,222
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At GlobalFoundries: 22FDX+/12FDX finally started integration process at Malta.
SOITEC's Pasir Ris with ~167k RF&FD-SOI wpm should be the main source for both RFSOI(includes special RF-FDX wafers) nodes and FDSOI nodes.

6FDX should be announced "shortly" after GF-Malta announces 22FDX+/12FDX lines.
- Faster than FinFETs and GAAFETs. With the traditional library.
- Much higher yields, relative to potential loss of area. As well as "4.05T" library for HyperDense HighPerformance libs. Just note this library is smaller than the 6.75T HPC one, while still being aimed at the HPC crowd.
 
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trivik12

Senior member
Jan 26, 2006
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TSMC has no shortage of customers.

Samsung, meanwhile....

has Samsung as their customer.

Samsung LSI will leverage Samsung Foundry's SF3 GAAFET node for Exynos 2500 SoC.
Irrespective of that I am curious to see how Exynos 2500 improves from 2400. Already 2400 is much better than 2200. It would be good to see some competition on mobile SOC side.
 
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