Trump NY indictment thread

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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,196
12,324
146
Welp, the owner of the company is apparently worth 9 billion dollars. The question is why would a billionaire business man like that risk $175 million on Trump. You don't become a billionaire by lending people like Trump money. The odds of not getting it back would be pretty damn high. But what I read about him, his 1st business was auto loans to super high risk people at basically loan shark rates when nobody else would loan them money.. You don't get much higher risk that giving $175 to Diaper Don I guess lol.

The paperwork mistake for such a large company seems odd, maybe it was intentional so they could drag this out as long as possible.
Let me rephrase, is there a billionaire in America that would survive an open book audit from the IRS?
 
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allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
24,988
4,330
136
But what I read about him, his 1st business was auto loans to super high risk people at basically loan shark rates when nobody else would loan them money.. You don't get much higher risk that giving $175 to Diaper Don I guess lol.

The article I linked to did say that the bond company was paid a premium by Trump but wouldn't say how much. So, perhaps Trump didn't actually have the cash and paid shark rates to keep up appearances. No actual explanation of it all would surprise me.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,129
2,218
136
Looks like the bond is in question



I will put my tin foil hat on… and say the bond company did not want to put in writing where the money is coming from. Or that they don’t have it..

So we have a few more days to wait
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,007
11,395
136
Looks like the bond is in question



I will put my tin foil hat on… and say the bond company did not want to put in writing where the money is coming from. Or that they don’t have it..

So we have a few more days to wait
Does this extend the 10 day deadline?
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,129
2,218
136
Does this extend the 10 day deadline?

If I remember correctly it is scheduled to goto Engoron (judge sp?) on April 22

Hard to keep all trials straight


To me that sounds awfully long….

But if it fails I would bet James can fire sale Trumps assets


Edit.. probably will not extend the bond date. The date I listed was just to verify the bond is backed properly

The appeal is set for sometime early fall ish.
 
Last edited:

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,127
2,226
136
The article I linked to did say that the bond company was paid a premium by Trump but wouldn't say how much. So, perhaps Trump didn't actually have the cash and paid shark rates to keep up appearances. No actual explanation of it all would surprise me.
If I understood correctly, the premium is the fee for underwriting the bond. It's typically around 2.5%. I believe Hankey had said the other day they didn't try to squeeze a bigger fee out of DJT.

If Knight Special Insurance Co. didn't actually secure the bond with cash collateral (as Hankey claimed), then either they're highly incompetent OR this is some kind of quid pro quo. One could argue BOTH would apply; with Trump, it's certainly more of the latter.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,532
2,746
136
Eh, this really isn't a fraud situation, it's more like pushing the boundaries of insurance law.

To begin with, typically government entities require sureties to hit a minimum rating from AM Best or a similar rating agency. An AM Best rating is comprised of two parts, a letter grade and a number grade. The letter grade will be A+/A/A-/B+ etc. It represents the sureties general credit worthiness and their overall financial outlook. The number grade will be I/II/III/IV etc. It represents the sureties general size and surplus, the larger the Roman numeral the larger the surplus. In my experience most governments require AT LEAST an A- VII surety, but that could go higher if the bond obligation is larger.

There's been no discussion of the court requiring a minimum rating, which I find odd.

Apparently the main issue is the surety isn't authorized (licensed) in New York. This is both odd and not odd. It's not odd because insurance companies ARE allowed to do business in states in which they're not licensed. It's called the nonadmitted/surplus lines market. In most states if you can't find insurance through an admitted carrier (i.e., you've got three denials) you're free to shop the surplus lines market. Surplus lines carriers tend to be more expensive than admitted insurers. What makes this odd is that surety is NOT generally allowed on a surplus lines basis, especially by government entities. The only time I've seen nonadmitted bonds accepted are on federal obligations where the surety doesn't have to be licensed in the state because it's a federal job and the surety is on the list of approved federal sureties.

The quotes I've seen about New York needing to verify that the bond was collateralized properly are wrong. The obligee has no right to verify the collateralization of the bond. The surety stands in the place of the applicant and owes the face value of the bond without regard to the quality of the collateral.

New York claims that their laws prohibit a single bond obligation is excess of 10% of surplus. The bond company states that this doesn't matter since they're a nonadmitted carrier not subject to New York regulation. The bond company is right, but New York still could reject the bond for being nonadmitted. Also, I'd be interested to know where the bond company is domiciled as THAT state may take umbrage with a bond of this size.

New Yorks questions about short term cash are also off point. The bond secures an obligation on appeal. The appeal is scheduled for much later in the year. Instant cash on hand is a red herring if the surety has months to liquidate other investments if necessary. Cash on hand is only relevant if there is some way for the appellant to default on the obligation before the appeal is heard. I'm not sure what could transpire to make the bond immediately callable.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,100
27,856
136
Eh, this really isn't a fraud situation, it's more like pushing the boundaries of insurance law.

To begin with, typically government entities require sureties to hit a minimum rating from AM Best or a similar rating agency. An AM Best rating is comprised of two parts, a letter grade and a number grade. The letter grade will be A+/A/A-/B+ etc. It represents the sureties general credit worthiness and their overall financial outlook. The number grade will be I/II/III/IV etc. It represents the sureties general size and surplus, the larger the Roman numeral the larger the surplus. In my experience most governments require AT LEAST an A- VII surety, but that could go higher if the bond obligation is larger.

There's been no discussion of the court requiring a minimum rating, which I find odd.

Apparently the main issue is the surety isn't authorized (licensed) in New York. This is both odd and not odd. It's not odd because insurance companies ARE allowed to do business in states in which they're not licensed. It's called the nonadmitted/surplus lines market. In most states if you can't find insurance through an admitted carrier (i.e., you've got three denials) you're free to shop the surplus lines market. Surplus lines carriers tend to be more expensive than admitted insurers. What makes this odd is that surety is NOT generally allowed on a surplus lines basis, especially by government entities. The only time I've seen nonadmitted bonds accepted are on federal obligations where the surety doesn't have to be licensed in the state because it's a federal job and the surety is on the list of approved federal sureties.

The quotes I've seen about New York needing to verify that the bond was collateralized properly are wrong. The obligee has no right to verify the collateralization of the bond. The surety stands in the place of the applicant and owes the face value of the bond without regard to the quality of the collateral.

New York claims that their laws prohibit a single bond obligation is excess of 10% of surplus. The bond company states that this doesn't matter since they're a nonadmitted carrier not subject to New York regulation. The bond company is right, but New York still could reject the bond for being nonadmitted. Also, I'd be interested to know where the bond company is domiciled as THAT state may take umbrage with a bond of this size.

New Yorks questions about short term cash are also off point. The bond secures an obligation on appeal. The appeal is scheduled for much later in the year. Instant cash on hand is a red herring if the surety has months to liquidate other investments if necessary. Cash on hand is only relevant if there is some way for the appellant to default on the obligation before the appeal is heard. I'm not sure what could transpire to make the bond immediately callable.
If the entity doesn’t have the assets to cover the bond it still sounds like fraud.

Kinda like overvaluing your house to get a home equity loan…

Damn! Back where we started!
 
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QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,410
730
126
Just so I understand. Trump may have committed fraud posting bond on his fraud trial?

It wouldn't shock me at all that a company that would actually post a $175,000,000 bond for Trump would commit fraud. I know some of the Trumpers are saying the guy did the bond because Trump offered him favors when he's back in office. His winning is a super long shot, and a 175 million bond on a long shot seems like a bad way to run a business.

The irony in this happening to Trump is great, just a few short weeks ago he claimed he had enough to cover $455, but needed a bond for $175? After the Bibles sell out, I wonder what he'll start peddling next. He sure does am awful lot of fleemarket level hawking for a man who had $455 million in March.
 
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BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
63,007
11,395
136
It wouldn't shock me at all that a company that would actually post a $175,000,000 bond for Trump would commit fraud. I know some of the Trumpers are saying the guy did the bond because Trump offered him favors when he's back in office. His winning is a super long shot, and a 175 million bond on a long shot seems like a bad way to run a business.

The irony in this happening to Trump is great, just a few short weeks ago he claimed he had enough to cover $455, but needed a bond for $175? After the Bibles sell out, I wonder what he'll start peddling next. He sure does am awful lot of fleemarket level hawking for a man who had $455 million in March.

Did he run out of $399 gold sprayed sneakers? Those were some real money makers...
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,107
4,405
136
Lol back to presidential immunity. In fall 2016??? Like really clown lawyers
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,689
2,449
126
Lol back to presidential immunity. In fall 2016??? Like really clown lawyers
I guess in Trumpworld he is entitled to "presidential immunity" before he was elected. I'm sure there was plenty of precedent to cite to support that fantasy.
 
Reactions: Dave_5k

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,598
3,115
136
Is this in reference to some new filing/motion?

Former President Donald Trump has asked a New York appeals court for emergency relief to stop the criminal hush money trial scheduled to begin on Monday so he can appeal a lower court’s ruling on presidential immunity and have the judge recused from the case.

The court filings on Wednesday are the latest in what has been a blitz of actions by Trump at the appeals court this week to try to stop the trial before its scheduled start.
...
After CNN reviewed the notice of petition on the public docket, the filing was sealed.
 

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,598
3,115
136
I guess in Trumpworld he is entitled to "presidential immunity" before he was elected. I'm sure there was plenty of precedent to cite to support that fantasy.
Technically, I think this case is about the falsified business records that were hiding the 2016 payments - and those false business records were issued after being elected.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,632
10,032
136
What would be the debt limit in your rational world? Would it be a hard number or a percentage of assets? Would it also include credit score? Should we also look at where income originates? Maybe an in depth audit of the persons complete financial history would be the way to go?
I'm not against the idea, but I wonder how it would work.
Probably would be similar to getting a security clearance. I don't know that there are diced ratios or anything, but if the government feels you could be compromised because of it, no clearance for you.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,483
10,369
136
Looks like the bond is in question



I will put my tin foil hat on… and say the bond company did not want to put in writing where the money is coming from. Or that they don’t have it..

So we have a few more days to wait
So Trump really has no money, or thinks he can delay his way out of losing his property.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,410
730
126
So Trump really has no money, or thinks he can delay his way out of losing his property.

He's already managed to delay his way out of NY starting to take shit, the question is how much longer can he keep this charade going. It's remarkable how someone as stupid as him can still seemingly always manage to finesse the system. I know it's almost all dumb luck, but holy shit he has a ton of it.
 
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iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
6,946
2,227
136
I have no idea who this lawyer is. According to his bio he worked for the DOJ 90 - 92.

“Donald Trump is doing his best Wizard of Oz imitation. These days, Trump is not looking like the “winner” he needs voters to believe him to be. Like the title character in L Frank Baum’s 1900 children’s fantasy and the 1939 movie, there is less there than meets the eye. The 45th president’s lead in the polls evaporates while his cash stash shrinks.”

 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
3,129
2,218
136
Holy crow! Will the fraud in that case ever end?
The best part is at the bottom of the article


Hankey, for his part, in a recent interviewwith Reuters insisted that he had accepted collateral for the $175 million bond. But he added that he was not sure exactly what the source of it was.

"I don't know if it came from Donald Trump or from Donald Trump and supporters," he said, adding that he now regrets only charging a Trump a "low fee" for his services.
 
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