Putin has been in power, rising to the occasion and becoming the sole decision-maker of the country.
First of all, you forgot to list the South China Sea with Taiwan. But fundamentally, yours is a false comparison at it's base. China wants to subjugate Taiwan's democracy just like they're doing in Hong Kong. Already done? Tibet, the Uighers (sic), And if you don't think the Philippines and even Vietnam et. al WANT the US in the South China Sea to at least counterbalance the rapacious Chinese, who want the whole damn sea, think again.I don't know, every country is different has has different "red lines." For China, its Taiwan. For Russia, its Ukraine and Georgia. For America, its Europe, the Western hemisphere, South China Sea, East Asia, Red Sea, Mediterranean Sea and many more which I will not mention. So it appears Russia's red lines are a lot less than America's. And China's are even less than that.
So if America had a red line in Iraq that’s fine?I don't know, every country is different has has different "red lines." For China, it’s Taiwan. For Russia, it’s Ukraine and Georgia. For America, its Europe, the Western hemisphere, South China Sea, East Asia, Red Sea, Mediterranean Sea and many more which I will not mention. So it appears Russia's red lines are a lot less than America's. And China's are even less than that.
What standing does Russia have when a country wants to join NATO?
Has Nato ever invaded Russia?
I don't know, every country is different has has different "red lines." For China, its Taiwan. For Russia, its Ukraine and Georgia. For America, its Europe, the Western hemisphere, South China Sea, East Asia, Red Sea, Mediterranean Sea and many more which I will not mention. So it appears Russia's red lines are a lot less than America's. And China's are even less than that.
Germany defends itself against Polish aggression.If you remember during the Cuban Missile crisis raildogg, our country almost got into a nuclear ear with the USSR because the Soviet Union attempted to set up missile silos not on the US’s borders, but in Cuba, a country with a body of water separating them. We even set up a naval blockade in Cuba.
But it’s totally fine when we set up secret CIA bases right on Russia’s border! No problem at all!
Then the resident stooges get outraged when Russia defends itself against NATO aggression.
If you poke the Russian bear enough, expect to get bitten back.
🐻
No you just moved the goalposts because you found out Russia wanted much more than just Ukraine not joining NATO. Russia wanted NATO rolled all the way back to 1997 and it wasn't going to happen.There is this thing called diplomacy which is now a very alien word to the West. Yeah Russia had demands prior to the Ukraine war but that is where diplomacy comes in. You cannot get all you want. If America and NATO were serious about peace they would have sat with Russia and talked. But no, they outright rejected Russia's concerns, from what I know. Leaving no room for talks. So you asked me to provide proof saying whether Russia said it would not invade if Ukraine would not be let into NATO - well, this did happen and NATO and America refused to talk any further. Did NATO and America think Russia was fooling around with national security? If they did, they have made a very serious miscalculation with Ukraine's security.
"The demands include a ban on Ukraine entering Nato and a limit to the deployment of troops and weapons to Nato’s eastern flank, in effect returning Nato forces to where they were stationed in 1997, before an eastward expansion."
NATO would never allow Ukraine to join them, so it’s a moot point. NATO just says it over and over again to troll Russia.
So your theory is that Putin is incredibly stupid and embarked on this war to prevent something that would have never happened?
-Which country has been shelling ethnic Russians in the Donbass region for 8 straight years prior to this invasion?
When you fervently and consistently parrot Kremlin talking points, verbatim.... ad nauseam.Interesting to see people make accusations of someone being a...
Bud, the only fascists here would be those who refused to give peace a chance and were cheerleading for more war. This all could have ended 2 years ago with Ukraine agreeing to the peace deal that was negotiated between Ukraine and Russia in Instanbul.
Ukraine pulled out(again) at the behest of Boris Johnson and NATO. I guess from NATOs perspective, a 2 month long war at that point wasn’t enough time to ‘try out’ their useless sanctions and see how they would work. Or their ‘combined arms’ warfare. Or how they’re ’air defenses’ work against Russian missiles.
Maybe one day you will see this war was nothing more than a test run for NATO to see how sanctions, warfare strategy, and air defenses would actually work in a direct war with Russia. Oh and how could I forget, launder billions of US/european taxpayer money thru Ukraine and right back into the pockets of the military industrial complex.
Time to throw in the towel guys. Better to negotiate peace with the Russians now, versus Ukraine being left a rump state, being bombed back to the Stone Age, along with NATO getting humiliated in the process.
God you're demented. You really hate your own origin story that much that you'd want to burn it down and turn it over to autocracies? You belong in a mental institution, something is wrong with your head - something related to self-harm.So it is now admitted that US wants to use Ukraine as cannon fodder because it does not want to directly fight Russia?
Create millions of refugees, along with so many casualties so you can use Ukraine to cause damage to Russia?
Yea i remember the article; that family sure found out real fast the difference between a democracy and a dictatorship. In simple words say the wrong thing and end up in a heap of trouble. But hey they get to live in Russia now whether they wish to stay or not. For all their hate in Canada at least they were able to leave when they chose !Too lazy to look up the YT vids
But it is kind of funny. Well I do
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/conservative-family-disappointed-moving-russia-001517915.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAH-Y1XaSklssm3IT2X5mDVEYKzHh-x4zELGQsypZ8xBOg3Mkdz6xLedpU4TAO-J-x0bYtZoJjl2zhcsXF8BAmNHF5cST2xqVydRiqy0hk9GNvuoI2T1jq0oqVZMPbXOdvvwGMAqVyugjeivn68MW5uw0oFL16mIjIKlhGKdU-CLA#:~:text=Conservative%20Family%20'Disappointed'%20After%20Moving%20To%20Russia%20To%20Escape%20LGBTQ%20Ideology,-Favour%20Adegoke&text=Arend%20and%20his%20wife%20Anneesa,were%20reportedly%20frozen%20upon%20arrival.
I am sure we can get some crowdfunding going for one way tickets going to Russia for *everyone* who wants to go.. on terms that they tear up their current citizenship of course. No refunds.There is this thing called diplomacy which is now a very alien word to the West. Yeah Russia had demands prior to the Ukraine war but that is where diplomacy comes in. You cannot get all you want. If America and NATO were serious about peace they would have sat with Russia and talked. But no, they outright rejected Russia's concerns, from what I know. Leaving no room for talks. So you asked me to provide proof saying whether Russia said it would not invade if Ukraine would not be let into NATO - well, this did happen and NATO and America refused to talk any further. Did NATO and America think Russia was fooling around with national security? If they did, they have made a very serious miscalculation with Ukraine's security.
"The demands include a ban on Ukraine entering Nato and a limit to the deployment of troops and weapons to Nato’s eastern flank, in effect returning Nato forces to where they were stationed in 1997, before an eastward expansion."
The Guardian
America and NATO wanted to gobble up all of Europe all the way up to Russia's border and excepted Russia to shut its mouth and take it. It turns out that was not the case. You may not like it but every country has "red lines" and abilities to tolerate certain actions.
I think at one point Russia wanted to be part of NATO?
Interesting Turkish article:
According to the Kremlin, Russia is fighting Ukraine, or Vladimir Putin's words, “Little Russia,” to prevent NATO’s eastern expansion across Eastern Europe. While Kiev is not a member of NATO, Russia is fighting forces trained and armed by the Western Alliance.
But at one point in history, Putin’s Russia wanted to join NATO.
“Russia is part of European culture. And I cannot imagine my own country in isolation from Europe and what we often call the civilised world. So it is hard for me to visualise NATO as an enemy,” said Putin, the country’s acting president in 2000, three weeks before the election, which made him president.
At the time, Putin’s words were interpreted as extending an olive branch to the West. Since then, Putin has been in power, rising to the occasion and becoming the sole decision-maker of the country.
The same year, according to the then-NATO chief George Robertson, Putin bluntly asked: “When are you going to invite us to join Nato?” Robertson advised the Russian president that he needs to “apply to join NATO” and not expect an invitation.
Now, under massive Western sanctions isolating Moscow from Europe and with much of the “civilised” world allied with Washington, Russia has reached a point that its long-serving president could not have imagined two decades ago. His words now sound like those of a man with an unfulfilled desire for an impossible love affair with NATO.
Some experts believe it could have been real if the West had taken Russia’s membership prospects seriously back in 2000 or the 1990s when Mikhail Gorbachev, the last Soviet leader, and Russian Federation’s first President Boris Yeltsin also lobbied for Moscow’s entrance to the alliance. Had it happened, the current Russian onslaught on Ukraine could have been prevented.
“Because they thought that they had won the Cold War and could dictate all the terms as Russia was 'beaten'. They were high on the euphoria of a perceived victory rather than a massive opportunity for peace and security,” says Gregory Simons, an associate professor at the Institute for Russian and Eurasian Studies at Uppsala University.
“They did not regard Russia as an equal and probably thought to use the idea of membership as a means of compliance. Like the EU has done to Turkey for years,” Simons tells TRT World.
We don't give a shit about the Ukrainians. Nobody but Ukrainians really do.
Then why have western countries been sending billions in aid? They have too much money and don't know what to do with it? I'm not even talking about military aid, just look at the numbers for financial and humanitarian aid.We don't give a shit about the Ukrainians. Nobody but Ukrainians really do.
To keep the lights on for one and civil services in general and it's all for nothing in the end if they fall.Then why have western countries been sending billions in aid? They have too much money and don't know what to do with it? I'm not even talking about military aid, just look at the numbers for financial and humanitarian aid.
I dont know about that.We don't give a shit about the Ukrainians. Nobody but Ukrainians really do.
Then why have western countries been sending billions in aid? They have too much money and don't know what to do with it? I'm not even talking about military aid, just look at the numbers for financial and humanitarian aid.
TrueTo keep the lights on for one and civil services in general and it's all for nothing in the end if they fall.
We could send a trillion dollars today, tomorrow, and twice next Tuesday. It isn't going to change the course of the war for the better in the end. It's a goddam black hole. It's pissing money away. They cannot get the gear they need, they obviously aren't even being allowed to buy all of the things they need.
Or, we could do what Zelly recently asked for, and somehow round up 25 Patriot systems to blanket Ukraine. That would be the start of turning the tide. Currently, Ukraine is fucked because there is no will to provide equipment that will enable Ukraine to at least have a remotely fair chance. Yeah Russia is losing a shit ton of personnel and stuff, but they've got a shit ton to lose and will probably manage to end up with everything east of the Dnieper and Odesa if things don't turn around while we hope for the kindness of their heart they don't just keep on going.