Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)

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tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,828
3,657
136
As usual, I return to see garbage analyses being posted and regurgitated for dozens of pages.

These are the two results on Geekbench 5 so far:

[1]

[2]

Now, anybody interested in what "Xen HVM domU" is could do a Google search to find out that it is the Xen hypervisor.

Here's the thing - Virtualized environments are WAY MORE unreliable when it comes to Geekbench detecting the CPU specs using the usual method of querying MSRs.
So that automatically discards the first result as it is running a hypervisor.

So that leaves result [2].

Doing the usual appending ".gb5" to the URL shows that it is running 2000 MHz frequency.

And here is my 11370H @2000 MHz fixed frequency.

N.B. It is very easy to fix a frequency in Linux - just type
Code:
cpupower frequency-set -u xxxxmhz
and
Code:
cpupower frequency-set -d xxxxmhz
as root in the terminal.

So here I am focusing on the result for my 11370H



And here is the Strix ES



So compared to Tiger Lake at 2.0 GHz - the frequency being the same as the leak - Zen 5 is ~31% faster clock-for-clock.

Intel has this covered with Lion Cove.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,392
8,278
136
As usual, I return to see garbage analyses being posted and regurgitated for dozens of pages.

These are the two results on Geekbench 5 so far:

[1]

[2]

Now, anybody interested in what "Xen HVM domU" is could do a Google search to find out that it is the Xen hypervisor.

Here's the thing - Virtualized environments are WAY MORE unreliable when it comes to Geekbench detecting the CPU specs using the usual method of querying MSRs.
So that automatically discards the first result as it is running a hypervisor.

So that leaves result [2].

Doing the usual appending ".gb5" to the URL shows that it is running 2000 MHz frequency.

And here is my 11370H @2000 MHz fixed frequency.

N.B. It is very easy to fix a frequency in Linux - just type
Code:
cpupower frequency-set -u xxxxmhz
and
Code:
cpupower frequency-set -d xxxxmhz
as root in the terminal.

So here I am focusing on the result for my 11370H

View attachment 97732

And here is the Strix ES

View attachment 97733

So compared to Tiger Lake at 2.0 GHz - the frequency being the same as the leak - Zen 5 is ~31% faster clock-for-clock.

Intel has this covered with Lion Cove.

Any chance you could run it on the same sub-version as the Zen 5 run?
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,392
8,278
136
Zen 5 already confirmed worse than Zen 4.

Yeah, the 1.41 GHz result seems too good to be true (probably not reading the frequency correctly) because that would be ~2X increase. However, the 2 GHz result also seems too low to be true (probably bad result with immature platform/BIOS), otherwise it's like a <5% IPC increase gen on gen.
 

Mahboi

Senior member
Apr 4, 2024
522
836
91
Yeah, the 1.41 GHz result seems too good to be true (probably not reading the frequency correctly) because that would be ~2X increase. However, the 2 GHz result also seems too low to be true (probably bad result with immature platform/BIOS), otherwise it's like a <5% IPC increase gen on gen.
I'm not good enough technically to throw my dart in, but comparing it at 2Ghz to cores that are years old on other nodes seem a bit silly, when the expected clocks should be around 6Ghz, which none of the older CPUs can reach. Scaling isn't fully linear across frequency IIUC.
I'm also finding very funny that an 8 wide front end would somehow have near or worse IPC than Zen 4 after Z2->Z4 has been all on 6 wide.
 

Geddagod

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2021
1,159
1,035
106
Yeah, the 1.41 GHz result seems too good to be true (probably not reading the frequency correctly) because that would be ~2X increase. However, the 2 GHz result also seems too low to be true (probably bad result with immature platform/BIOS), otherwise it's like a <5% IPC increase gen on gen.
How? Thought this would still be a ~15-20% increase over Zen 4 still?
 

Geddagod

Golden Member
Dec 28, 2021
1,159
1,035
106
I'm not good enough technically to throw my dart in, but comparing it at 2Ghz to cores that are years old on other nodes seem a bit silly, when the expected clocks should be around 6Ghz, which none of the older CPUs can reach. Scaling isn't fully linear across frequency IIUC.
I'm also finding very funny that an 8 wide front end would somehow have near or worse IPC than Zen 4 after Z2->Z4 has been all on 6 wide.
I don't think the score is worse on a zen 4 cpu at 2ghz
I also think GB SC/IPC scores pretty linearly tbh...
The node doesn't matter, and GLC/RPC/Zen 4 are like 2 years older than Zen 5, not decades. That shouldn't matter either.
 

Timmah!

Golden Member
Jul 24, 2010
1,430
660
136
Reactions: Tlh97 and Joe NYC

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,392
8,278
136
How? Thought this would still be a ~15-20% increase over Zen 4 still?

I’m going off of @tamz_msc ’s results and rough IPC math from Anandtech reviews.

Zen 3 over Icelake was about 15% integer IPC and ICL ~ TGL while Zen 4 is roughly 10% over Zen 3. That leaves Zen 4 being roughly 26% higher IPC than TGL while @tamz_msc showed 31% higher for Zen 5 which would mean Zen 5 would be less than a 5% IPC increase over Zen 4. It’s really rough math but close enough to show that something is off in the score.
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,828
3,657
136
I’m going off of @tamz_msc ’s results and rough IPC math from Anandtech reviews.

Zen 3 over Icelake was about 15% integer IPC and ICL ~ TGL while Zen 4 is roughly 10% over Zen 3. That leaves Zen 4 being roughly 26% higher IPC than TGL while @tamz_msc showed 31% higher for Zen 5 which would mean Zen 5 would be less than a 5% IPC increase over Zen 4. It’s really rough math but close enough to show that something is off in the score.
...and 12 percent higher IPC than Golden Cove at 2000 MHz, according to @gdansk posted score.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,392
8,278
136
...and 12 percent higher IPC than Golden Cove at 2000 MHz, according to @gdansk posted score.

Zen 4 has slightly higher IPC than Golden Cove so the numbers track with the above calculation, roughly speaking at least. There’s basically no way Zen 5 gets that low of an increase unless AMD completely botched something. The far more plausible answer is that it’s just that the score is an ES on an immature platform that is limiting performance.
 
Reactions: Tlh97 and Mahboi

adroc_thurston

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2023
2,501
3,650
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Zen 4 has slightly higher IPC than Golden Cove so the numbers track with the above calculation, roughly speaking at least. There’s basically no way Zen 5 gets that low of an increase unless AMD completely botched something. The far more plausible answer is that it’s just that the score is an ES on an immature platform that is limiting performance.
it's not 2GHz.
what are you on.
clk readouts are in .gb5. like, wat?
 
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