Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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Shervan360

Member
Sep 1, 2019
135
39
101
It is darkly funny how Russians are desperately attempting to convince themselves that the outcome of this war is the restored Russian empire when the far likelier scenario is Russia becoming a vassal state of China.
The winner of the war between Israel and Hamas, Russia, and Ukraine is only China.
Why are you afraid to admit this? China is becoming stronger day by day by buying cheap oil and America getting stuck in the swamp of Ukraine and the Middle East.
Europe is watching as usual because it has no power.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,243
48,426
136
The winner of the war between Israel and Hamas, Russia, and Ukraine is only China.
Why are you afraid to admit this? China is becoming stronger day by day by buying cheap oil and America getting stuck in the swamp of Ukraine and the Middle East.
Europe is watching as usual because it has no power.
America is barely noticing any of these wars. It’s a drop in the bucket for us.

China is having fun with their own personal 2008 style financial crisis right now, which is then going to transition nicely into a demographic crisis because of their moronic child policies. Their economy is a disaster, it’s just less of a disaster than Russia’s.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,273
33,548
136
RU gas export business totally fucked and the Chinese don't want to put up the money for more pipeline capacity. They can only sell them about 10% of what they used to sell to Europe and at worse pricing. Moscow won't let domestic gas prices rise so the solution is to load the company down with huge debts instead.

I was told that the French and Germans were going to freeze to death in their homes lol. Instead they all just went out and bought LNG.

 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,217
12,347
146
5:1 10:1 should settle the matter relatively quick considering that Russia is only about 3-4 times the size of Ukraine. I guess there is a difference in conscription methodologies…
Neither side has committed a substantial percentage of their population to the war effort (which is good I suppose). Russia has more bodies to throw right now, they're also losing more.

There's a reason why so many military experts at the very beginning were claiming RU would never invade because they didn't have the manpower to actually hold Ukraine. They'd need actual millions, alive, in place and supplied, with no organized resistance, to hold the country. At no point have they even been close to the numbers required, and certainly once Ukraine organized themselves and got supplied with WH40k weapons from the west.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,217
12,347
146
Summary of an interview with rep Adam Smith (D)

Some unsettling realpolitik.
Sure, a 'sovereign, democratic country' that Russia invades in another 8 years, potentially after some facefuck Republican president decides words don't mean what words mean anymore and we aren't in a defensive alliance with anyone else anymore.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,328
12,944
136
I dont know, give up the dirt and get a NATO presence in the country as a guarantee it wont repeat in 10 years again, fasttrack EU and NATO. Use next 20 years to see Russia crumble from within, never take their gas and oil again sanctions stays in place.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,273
33,548
136
Ukraine is not likely to have the resources for a major offensive action in 24 or 25 unless there is some huge unforeseen shift. So yea that basically leaves going on the defensive almost everywhere and bleeding the Russians of men and equipment as efficiently as possible. Really all they need to do this is sufficient arms and munitions which can somewhat alleviate their manpower shortage. Most analysis of Russian vehicle depots indicates they will be dry in 1-1.5 years time or sooner for some models at present expenditure rates. Russian production of actual new vehicles cannot remotely keep pace with their losses. So likely sometime in 25 Putin is going to want to actually talk before the army is mostly riding Chinese lawnmowers into battle. Ukrainian strikes of critical Russian infrastructure within 1500km of the front are also almost certain to drastically increase over this period giving more incentive to do a deal.

At this point I think some kind of territorial concession is likely unavoidable and Ukrainian moods may have shifted in favor if they can get a decent deal. The security guarantee however is going to have to be nearly ironclad and include basing of EU nations militaries inside Ukraine proper while it works toward EU/NATO membership. The Russians will turn around and declare victory and that they accomplished their goals even though this whole thing is a strategic catastrophe of epic proportions.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,524
4,605
136
Ukraine is not likely to have the resources for a major offensive action in 24 or 25 unless there is some huge unforeseen shift. So yea that basically leaves going on the defensive almost everywhere and bleeding the Russians of men and equipment as efficiently as possible. Really all they need to do this is sufficient arms and munitions which can somewhat alleviate their manpower shortage. Most analysis of Russian vehicle depots indicates they will be dry in 1-1.5 years time or sooner for some models at present expenditure rates. Russian production of actual new vehicles cannot remotely keep pace with their losses. So likely sometime in 25 Putin is going to want to actually talk before the army is mostly riding Chinese lawnmowers into battle. Ukrainian strikes of critical Russian infrastructure within 1500km of the front are also almost certain to drastically increase over this period giving more incentive to do a deal.

At this point I think some kind of territorial concession is likely unavoidable and Ukrainian moods may have shifted in favor if they can get a decent deal. The security guarantee however is going to have to be nearly ironclad and include basing of EU nations militaries inside Ukraine proper while it works toward EU/NATO membership. The Russians will turn around and declare victory and that they accomplished their goals even though this whole thing is a strategic catastrophe of epic proportions.
Insert "Not sure, but might have to accept this as the only practical political option" emoji here.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,479
36,909
136
China is becoming stronger day by day by buying cheap oil and America getting stuck in the swamp of Ukraine and the Middle East.
Europe is watching as usual because it has no power.

Sad, delusional stuff. English must not be your primary language; we don't equate strength with what's been happening with China's economy since 2022. 2023 was horrible for them, 2024 will probably be worse. I bet Putin and Xi wish your gaslighting was real, it would probably mean they both weren't in terminal population spirals (made worse by war for Russia, stupid policies for China). Sounds like you're mad America isn't currently caught in a bear trap like Russia is. Awww. Well, just be happy the orcs aren't fighting Americans with current American weapons I guess? That's your silver lining.

Europe has no power? Then why do Russians shit themselves over what the EU does? It has something like 50 times the economic clout of China's most valued shithole ally, Russia. Xi would auction off his own wife's back porch to have ASML (Dutch) under his control. Clueless yet pompous, such a curious choice for those selling a fascist narrative. You're mad. I guess you should be though. Reality hasn't been kind lately, has it? When nearly 90% of foreign investment capital leaves China's stock market in a year, I guess some of you are going to take it kinda hard, huh? "stronger day by day!" lol uh whatever you need to tell yourself there chuckles

'Clueless' might too charitable though. It's probably something more challenging, more severe, if looking at the "swamp of Ukraine" makes you think the US is the country "stuck" there...

Who is actually getting stronger day by day? NATO. Thanks Putin! Hell of thing to do, especially while spending Russia's infrastructure money on the military like he is.
 
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tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,569
7,013
136
Ukraine getting Crimea back from this war is certainly a worthy goal to hold out for. Yet is it a realistic one given their present circumstances? Would Zelenskyy somehow keep this war going until that happens?
 
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Young Grasshopper

Senior member
Nov 9, 2007
926
296
136
Ukraine getting Crimea back from this war is certainly a worthy goal to hold out for. Yet is it a realistic one given their present circumstances? Would Zelenskyy somehow keep this war going until that happens?

Nope. They have zero air defenses and are running low on meat for the Russian meat grinder.

The last aid package IMO was just enough to drip feed them enough to last for the Nov elections. Once these elections are over, ya think anyone will care about Ukraine at that point? It took what, 6 months to get $60B approved, which BTW the majority of which doesn’t even go to directly to Ukraine in the form of arms? Its clear as day this administration is ready to move on and are now starting to pivot towards China. Just look at all of the anti-China FUD in the past few weeks.
 
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RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
1,736
4,249
106
Ukraine getting Crimea back from this war is certainly a worthy goal to hold out for. Yet is it a realistic one given their present circumstances? Would Zelenskyy somehow keep this war going until that happens?
The Ukrainian people seems to fully support this action.

I disagree with @K1052 on the notion of territorial concessions. I believe Ukraine can bleed Russia to such an extent that Russia will leave Crimea and the Donbas willingly. I mean Ukraine has only just begun in targeting Russian industrial facilities ie the oil refineries. Once the Ruble goes into freefall, as the Russian central bank will eventually lose all their levers for supporting it, so will the Russian Empire.

I've posted this before - For Ukraine to win, all it has to do is not lose.

Edit: its been posted before...


If you take the 'gas station' away, what does Russia have?

So fark em! Hope Ukraine keeps sending their home made long range drones further and deeper into Russia to burn it all to the ground.
 
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tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,569
7,013
136
Nope. They have zero air defenses and are running low on meat for the Russian meat grinder.

The last aid package IMO was just enough to drip feed them enough to last for the Nov elections. Once these elections are over, ya think anyone will care about Ukraine at that point? It took what, 6 months to get $60B approved, which BTW the majority of which doesn’t even go to directly to Ukraine in the form of arms? Its clear as day this administration is ready to move on and are now starting to pivot towards China. Just look at all of the anti-China FUD in the past few weeks.

Your spin doesn't work the way you think it does because you ignore the overwhelming facts and evidence to the contrary that's already been posted in this thread on numerous occasions. Try harder please.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,492
7,545
136
I dont know, give up the dirt and get a NATO presence in the country as a guarantee it wont repeat in 10 years again
The trick is that Russia will never ceasefire until they reach Poland.
Their demands will be the disarming of Ukraine for future attacks.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,618
7,948
136
Sure, a 'sovereign, democratic country' that Russia invades in another 8 years, potentially after some facefuck Republican president decides words don't mean what words mean anymore and we aren't in a defensive alliance with anyone else anymore.
Well. Our defacto policy is to not let Ukraine lose. Seems like that's it. This is the present political reality (as indicated from the ranking Dem on the House ASC). The Biden and his admin are keeping their mouths shut it appears - that have to play a particular way to win the election. If Democrats are thinking this - you can imagine that the republicans are full blown f* Ukraine. Russia's use of social engineering never saw such results until social media consumption became as common as McDonald's fries in the US. I do not like what is happening but the position indicated here shows what is happening.

The EU has started to lean more towards greater support for UKR than we are giving. We will see where that goes.
 
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Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,618
7,948
136
I disagree with @K1052 on the notion of territorial concessions. I believe Ukraine can bleed Russia to such an extent that Russia will leave Crimea and the Donbas willingly. I mean Ukraine has only just begun in targeting Russian industrial facilities ie the oil refineries. Once the Ruble goes into freefall, as the Russian central bank will eventually lose all their levers for supporting it, so will the Russian Empire.
Ukraine can't do this - unless they get massive support from NATO. UKR's economy is decimated. They need a huge amount of economic and military aide to win. Thus far, no country has been willing to put boots on the ground (or provide direct air support, etc.). What they have done so far is all they can do right now. Take a look at *this article* - a bit dated, but without the US, it just doesn't look good. Unless there is a real commitment, Russia will go on for a while with both Ukrainians and Russians dying for the ego of one man and his cronies. Intel indicates that Russia doesn't want to stop at the Ukrainian border - but we are obviously not too worried about that (in a sense, why would we be; Russia nearly crippled itself getting across the Dnieper - getting across the Atlantic is absurd**). The rubber is meeting the road right now.


** from a perspective that is real, though I don't think it actually is the best direction by any means.
 
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gdansk

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2011
2,212
2,836
136
I dont know, give up the dirt and get a NATO presence in the country as a guarantee it wont repeat in 10 years again, fasttrack EU and NATO. Use next 20 years to see Russia crumble from within, never take their gas and oil again sanctions stays in place.
Implementation proves difficult. Russia knows the results of peace and so avoids it unless they get everything else they want. They rather mobilize a dozen times than sign a peace which lets NATO and EU secure and rebuild Ukraine.
 
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Shervan360

Member
Sep 1, 2019
135
39
101
Sad, delusional stuff. English must not be your primary language; we don't equate strength with what's been happening with China's economy since 2022. 2023 was horrible for them, 2024 will probably be worse. I bet Putin and Xi wish your gaslighting was real, it would probably mean they both weren't in terminal population spirals (made worse by war for Russia, stupid policies for China). Sounds like you're mad America isn't currently caught in a bear trap like Russia is. Awww. Well, just be happy the orcs aren't fighting Americans with current American weapons I guess? That's your silver lining.

Europe has no power? Then why do Russians shit themselves over what the EU does? It has something like 50 times the economic clout of China's most valued shithole ally, Russia. Xi would auction off his own wife's back porch to have ASML (Dutch) under his control. Clueless yet pompous, such a curious choice for those selling a fascist narrative. You're mad. I guess you should be though. Reality hasn't been kind lately, has it? When nearly 90% of foreign investment capital leaves China's stock market in a year, I guess some of you are going to take it kinda hard, huh? "stronger day by day!" lol uh whatever you need to tell yourself there chuckles

'Clueless' might too charitable though. It's probably something more challenging, more severe, if looking at the "swamp of Ukraine" makes you think the US is the country "stuck" there...

Who is actually getting stronger day by day? NATO. Thanks Putin! Hell of thing to do, especially while spending Russia's infrastructure money on the military like he is.

You only say nice things.
So why is Crimea in Russia's possession/occupied after 10 years?
Why has Ukraine lost new territories?




 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,243
48,426
136
You only say nice things.
So why is Crimea in Russia's possession/occupied after 10 years?
Why has Ukraine lost new territories?



View attachment 98284
View attachment 98283
It’s pretty funny that your first map shows Ukraine retaking about half of the territory it lost in the initial full scale invasion.

Regardless he is correct that China is in deep shit economically. Decades of moronic social policies are coming home to roost. Russia has a similar problem but at least it wasn’t self inflicted.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,479
36,909
136
You only say nice things.
So why is Crimea in Russia's possession/occupied after 10 years?
Why has Ukraine lost new territories?



View attachment 98284
View attachment 98283

I appreciate you proving your delusional nature and confirming my suspicions. Can't argue anything about China huh? Yeah I didn't think so. Such cowards you Putin/Xi fluffers are.

Looks like you're too dumb for this thread if you think a pic of Crimea addresses the boots that just got put up your ignorant ass. Also sounds like you haven't been paying attention to what's been happening in Crimea lately, which figures I guess. If you think Russians hold a position of strength there you know less about war than that railedpussy! Like I told him, "It's going to get worse."

Just remember to keep posting after the bridge comes down ok? I'm guessing your grade school level of awareness about this war and the reality facing Crimea will produce some entertaining behavior. Little fascist twats getting smacked with reality like an errant bus, it's what I'm here for.
 
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