Intel processors crashing Unreal engine games (and others)

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Jul 27, 2020
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He keeps pushing his theory about denying the warranty.

Fineprint at the end:

Altering clock frequency or voltage may damage or reduce the useful life of the processor and other system components, and may reduce system stability and performance. Product warranties may not apply if the processor is operated beyond its specifications. Check with the manufacturers of system and components for additional details.

Now since Intel is vague on the specs, they have leeway to deny the warranty, especially in the face of a sudden influx of RMAs constituting thousands of degraded CPUs. Then Intel may say something like, user tried to run the CPU at all core frequency Y GHz but Intel ARK specifies max all core frequency of X GHz so warranty denied.
 
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Panino Manino

Senior member
Jan 28, 2017
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Going by r/Intel and r/hardware disturbing silence, Intel won't need to spend much on lawyers.
 

AdamK47

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,264
2,882
126
One thing I can't shake is the lack of admission from owners of these CPUs that have encountered instability.

Did these people just shrug it off on game crashes and just blame it on the game?

When the Nvidia drivers crashed did they always blame Nvidia?

Did they never run Prime95 or any other stress test software? If they did and it failed, did they also shrug that off?

Stress testing is one of the first things I do after a CPU, motherboard, or memory change. Even if it is a stock setting or a motherboard optimized setting. Especially when it comes to memory and their overclocked profiles.

I suppose these people were blissfully ignorant to what's going on with their system. Putting their concerns to rest with the "Intel is rock solid" notion.
 
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zir_blazer

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,179
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He keeps pushing his theory about denying the warranty. Can anyone elucidate on why he has drawn that conclusion? Is there historical precedent for Intel engaging in shenanigans like that? Nothing comes to mind. However, with how often all these companies engage in anti consumer behavior it is nigh impossible to keep track of it all.
Technically, running the Processor out of specifications voids the warranty. Now, think of a Motherboard that makes you void the Processor warranty the moment that you turn it on because it is already running out of spec. This also applies to features like XMP. Note than Intel some years ago also sold an extra optional overclocking warranty for K Processors.
Also, wasn't recently announced that AMD implemented some OTP fuses on ThreadRippers that are blown if you overclock? It is completely unknown if such things are already present on current Processors. I don't really know how silicon vendors can otherwise figure out if something incurred overclocking related degradation or damage.
 

lightmanek

Senior member
Feb 19, 2017
390
763
136
Technically, running the Processor out of specifications voids the warranty. Now, think of a Motherboard that makes you void the Processor warranty the moment that you turn it on because it is already running out of spec. This also applies to features like XMP. Note than Intel some years ago also sold an extra optional overclocking warranty for K Processors.
Also, wasn't recently announced that AMD implemented some OTP fuses on ThreadRippers that are blown if you overclock? It is completely unknown if such things are already present on current Processors. I don't really know how silicon vendors can otherwise figure out if something incurred overclocking related degradation or damage.
If damage is not visible (look at AMD bump contact burning saga) and there are no fueses implemented, then most often than not it'll be too expensive for manufacturer to investigate every single CPU they get for RMA.
But if SMU inside procesor has non volatile memory where it stores highest ever values set, then it's down to marketing department if they going to replace it.

In many cases shipping and engeeniering time is more costly than just accepting RMA if initial visual check can't determine failure cause.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,664
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Going by r/Intel and r/hardware disturbing silence, Intel won't need to spend much on lawyers.
First: what a bad hot take.

Second: That's not how it works. Intel has a legal department with approx. 280 employees. I guarantee you there is a team within that department hard at work over this debacle.

I also have no idea how you missed the 4 day old story on r/hardware that is near the top of the feed.
BTW, PCMR has 3x the members and there have been multiple big threads about it.

FYI - r/Intel has a pinned Q2 tech support thread. There a multiple users with 13 and 14 K series crashing

"Hi, I find myself in a situation where my i9 14900k CPU needs the Intel baseline profile to play certain games without continuous crashes. In this case, is this normal or would it be appropriate to open an RMA? Thank you"

Intel support - "We sense your worry with your Intel processor. We reckon that you are using an Asus board since their newest BIOS update allows users to set it to an Intel baseline profile. We also surmise that the Intel Baseline profile altered the SVID BIOS setting to 'Intel Fail Safe.' If this is accurate, and you are no longer experiencing crashes, then this behavior is expected and, therefore, normal."

"Summary of issue:

Frequent crashes in Counter strike 2: nvgpucomp64.dll crashes.

What I have tried:

I have reinstalled with DDU

reset my in-game graphics settings

tested in windows 10 and 11

verified game files in CS2 on steam files

disabled XMP

enable XMP

Memtest no error


Confirmed issues is still present. disabled hyper threads in BIOS setting help abit, but not much.

rare crashed in prime95 when i run large FFT

I see many who got 13900K or 14900K have major problem with frequent crashes in CS2 with same error nvgpucomp64.dll.

Memory leaks?

Another thing i want to tell:

I have a friend who got new gaming PC (prebulid) 2 days ago and PC have 14900K and crashed like me nvgpucomp64.dll. disabled hyper threads did solved issues. But its it normal?

Another user responding-

"I had the same issue with my 14900k, it got worse and worse with my old CPU, tried setting PL1 and PL2 to 253, but that didnt help. Crashed faster with xmp on.

When i got my new cpu i got one crash with XMP.

I've had no crashes after setting PL1/PL2 to 253 watt, MCE off and 307A max current (i think this one was the most important). Now my game is stable and i can run XMP at 7200.

I tested stability with y-cruncher, as it crashed as well.

Kinda sucks that you buy a overclockable -k CPU that cant boost itself :/"

Support response -

"
Since you are having crashes on other applications, please try the following:

  • There is a new update for your motherboard that shows improvements regarding game stability bios version 2202. Please try to update your BIOS to that version and use the Intel Baseline Profile option.
  • If that does not work, change SVID behavior to "Intel Fail Safe". Download Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility (Intel® XTU) and run an AVX 2 stress test, then check if you will have crashes still
  • If you still have crashes after trying our recommendations, you can contact Intel Customer Support to get an RMA."

There are more posts like that. So for the time being they are trying to gaslight users into living with reduced performance on a potentially/probably broken CPU. And to only RMA if even those lower performance settings fail to stabilize the system. Nevermind you bought the CPU because of the performance claims and benchmarks. Or that if it finishes crapping the bed completely after the 3yr warranty you are SOOL.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,664
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Technically, running the Processor out of specifications voids the warranty. Now, think of a Motherboard that makes you void the Processor warranty the moment that you turn it on because it is already running out of spec. This also applies to features like XMP. Note than Intel some years ago also sold an extra optional overclocking warranty for K Processors.
Also, wasn't recently announced that AMD implemented some OTP fuses on ThreadRippers that are blown if you overclock? It is completely unknown if such things are already present on current Processors. I don't really know how silicon vendors can otherwise figure out if something incurred overclocking related degradation or damage.
Here is the quote from that Anandtech interview a few pages back -

Guy Therien: Even with those values, you're not running out of spec, I want to make very clear – you’re running in spec, but you are getting higher turbo duration.

We’re going to be very crisp in our definition of what the difference between in-spec and out-of-spec is. There is an overclocking 'bit'/flag on our processors. Any change that requires you to set that overclocking bit to enable overclocking is considered out-of-spec operation. So if the motherboard manufacturer leaves a processor with its regular turbo values, but states that the power limit is 999W, that does not require a change in the overclocking bit, so it is in-spec.
That is unambiguous language. If the user is running OOB settings, it doesn't matter what they are, it is in spec.
 

KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,039
1,022
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I wonder whether ECC memory would catch those errors earlier?

Looking at LGA 1700 chipsets only W680 supports ECC and I was only able to find a total of 3 Asus motherboard using that chipset.

That person testing 100s quoted in post #370
Above, didn't try a W680.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,639
14,630
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I have a SuperMicro W680 motherboard. And I can tell you the defaults are extremely conservative (look at the benchmark results at OOB defaults).
But I only have two 12600Ks to test and neither have exhibited the issue.
I think the issue appears to ONLY be the 12900k (maybe),13900, and the 14900k, the top processors that are trying to win benchmarks to make Intel look like a winner, and it accomplished the opposite, IMO.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
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I think the issue appears to ONLY be the 12900k (maybe),13900, and the 14900k, the top processors that are trying to win benchmarks to make Intel look like a winner, and it accomplished the opposite, IMO.
This is incorrect. There are plenty of reports by users of i7-tier K-series 13th and 14th gen parts.

You're much less likely to run into this for Alder Lake and lower tier parts (due to lower limits and lower clocks). Add enough heat and MCE-like mobo behavior and you could probably still run into edge cases for stability, though.

Quick 30s of google searching:
13700K example
Another 13700K example
14700K example
14900K example
 

H433x0n

Senior member
Mar 15, 2023
926
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They definitely ran into the limit of Intel 7 in a spectacular fashion. The last update for Intel 7 that lowers vid across the board for all SKUs turned into a time bomb since it meant that every chip will now encounter x% more current and its current that kills the chips. Adding larger MiM to the process to squeeze out further performance backfired. Undervolting adds further fuel to the fire.

This whole fiasco turns the silicon lottery completely on its head. For stability and longevity, the worse the bin the better.
 

KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,039
1,022
136
I think the issue appears to ONLY be the 12900k (maybe),13900, and the 14900k, the top processors that are trying to win benchmarks to make Intel look like a winner, and it accomplished the opposite, IMO.
Well, as long as the media mostly ignores the issue, Intel are not going to do much IMO.

If the media was not afraid of offending Intel PR and actually be sometimes willing to look out for buyers...

... This would have generated top articles everywhere AND a total re-bench of all current CPUs.

But instead? Near total silence.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,639
14,630
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This is incorrect. There are plenty of reports by users of i7-tier K-series 13th and 14th gen parts.

You're much less likely to run into this for Alder Lake and lower tier parts (due to lower limits and lower clocks). Add enough heat and MCE-like mobo behavior and you could probably still run into edge cases for stability, though.

Quick 30s of google searching:
13700K example
Another 13700K example
14700K example
14900K example
Sorry, I was only going on what appeared to be in this thread. That makes sense after my experience with my 12700k, with e-cores disabled no less !
 

H433x0n

Senior member
Mar 15, 2023
926
1,013
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Well, as long as the media mostly ignores the issue, Intel are not going to do much IMO.

If the media was not afraid of offending Intel PR and actually be sometimes willing to look out for buyers...

... This would have generated top articles everywhere AND a total re-bench of all current CPUs.

But instead? Near total silence.
Wat. Every notable tech outlet has covered it. I'm sure I could find even more if I wanted to. We are in a slow news period for tech, they'll absolutely cover this front to back so they have something to write about.

anandtech

TechPowerUp

IgorsLab

Videocardz

Hardware Unboxed

WccfTech

PCWorld

Tom’s Hardware

Digital Trends

The Verge
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,709
10,983
136
You're much less likely to run into this for Alder Lake and lower tier parts (due to lower limits and lower clocks). Add enough heat and MCE-like mobo behavior and you could probably still run into edge cases for stability, though.

I haven't heard of anyone's 12900k being caught up in this mess, despite the fact that a lot of Z690 boards push them pretty hard @ stock (like PL2 253W with unlimited tau). Would be nice if anyone could do a compare/contrast on 12900k systems vs. 13900k to provide additional insights here.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
6,257
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I haven't heard of anyone's 12900k being caught up in this mess, despite the fact that a lot of Z690 boards push them pretty hard @ stock (like PL2 253W with unlimited tau).
Alder Lake ran higher voltages and reached thermal limits even faster due to lower heat transfer (relative to RPL). This meant they ran significantly lower current, even when limits where absent.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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Some anecdotal experience (don't own 13/14th gen and not using my 12700K at the moment):

I have a Core i7-1065G7 (Lenovo) in a small case with a tiny flat aluminum heatsink and a really teensy fan. It failed to load the Street Fighter 6 demo the first time and crashed around 60% of the shader compilation routine during the first startup. It ran subsequently but I don't remember what I did to make it run.

I also spent some quality time (2 days in fact) with a colleague's Ryzen 5825U HP Aero 13 laptop and basically stressed the crap out of it. Did not have the shader compilation crash on it at any time.

So this makes me curious. What does the shader compilation step involve that's so heavy that it causes Intel CPUs with poor cooling to croak? Is it the cache, the IMC, RAM or anything else?
 
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