8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

BFG10K · Jul 13, 2021

8GB

Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

10GB / 12GB

Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

It's the player's fault.
It's the reviewer's fault.
It's the developer's fault.
It's AMD's fault.
It's the game's fault.
It's the driver's fault.
It's a system configuration issue.
Wrong settings were tested.
Wrong area was tested.
Wrong games were tested.
4K is irrelevant.
Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
It's an anomaly.
It's a console port.
It's a conspiracy against NV.
8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

GodisanAtheist · May 6, 2024

The 3060 can absolutely do 4K, 30 FPS is absolutely playable.

It's far from ideal, but i played through Hogwart's Legacy on a 980ti and even at the "correct settings" it was waffling around 30 FPS and was very playable.

MrPickins · May 6, 2024

GodisanAtheist said:
The 3060 can absolutely do 4K, 30 FPS is absolutely playable.

It's far from ideal, but i played through Hogwart's Legacy on a 980ti and even at the "correct settings" it was waffling around 30 FPS and was very playable.

I was just about to say that.

I much prefer 60fps, but many people don't care and would actually rather do 4k/30 vs 1080p/60. Declaring anything under 60fps as "unplayable" is just silly.

igor_kavinski · May 6, 2024

Regarding DLSSing games to 4K, DLSS isn't supported by every game. More VRAM wins when the game doesn't support DLSS.

Regarding stupid comparisons, a buyer deserves not to be disappointed. A card with low VRAM is sure to disappoint in the rare game that the buyer may WANT to play, especially a buyer with limited means. It is best for such a buyer to go with the highest VRAM card possible within his budget, instead of relying on some hokum tech that can't be applied globally and needs to be supported by games. That rules out less popular but still very interesting and enjoyable games which is the majority of indie games.

And as discussed so many times in this thread before, you fall in love with some game. Complete it 100% and then go looking for mods to squeeze out some more fun from the game. And this is when you sadly find out the limits of your card if you went with 8GB or less.

I and I'm sure a lot of people here believe in killing as many birds with one stone as possible. For a vast majority of people, especially from developing countries, the 8GB limit has probably caused countless sighs and saddened many hearts. So I cannot in good faith let anyone buy an 8GB card if they intend to keep it for a long time. As a spare card or something to mess with casually, sure an 8GB card isn't a bad thing to have.

CouncilorIrissa · May 6, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
And as discussed so many times in this thread before, you fall in love with some game. Complete it 100% and then go looking for mods to squeeze out some more fun from the game. And this is when you sadly find out the limits of your card if you went with 8GB or less.

cue "not a correct use-case" argument.

igor_kavinski said:
I and I'm sure a lot of people here believe in killing as many birds with one stone as possible. For a vast majority of people, especially from developing countries, the 8GB limit has probably caused countless sighs and saddened many hearts. So I cannot in good faith let anyone buy an 8GB card if they intend to keep it for a long time. As a spare card or something to mess with casually, sure an 8GB card isn't a bad thing to have.

Would someone please spare a thought for Jensen's margins?

DAPUNISHER · May 7, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
As a spare card or something to mess with casually, sure an 8GB card isn't a bad thing to have.

It is if it's $300-$400. The entire point of the thread. No one is spicy about the RX 6600 or A750 because the price for 8GB is fine.

igor_kavinski · May 7, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
It is if it's $300-$400.

If someone wants to let Jensen afford one more jacket with a spare 8GB card, who am I to keep a gentleman from offering fealty to his hero?

I don't expect Jensen to wake up one day and suddenly decide that 8GB isn't enough. This damn RAM/VRAM amount is going to haunt us for a few more years. Possibly even 5 years for us to never see another device again with 8GB. The best we can do is offer sane advice to visitors to these forums and save them from wasting their money.

reggie_fils_aime · May 7, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
It is if it's $300-$400. The entire point of the thread. No one is spicy about the RX 6600 or A750 because the price for 8GB is fine.

Can we print this out and send it to psolord? Maybe have it affixed to his monitors? This is the entire ever-loving thing, the whole deal. An A580/750 or RX 6600/6650xt are wonderful cards... Because they provide value for money. Nearly a hundred pages of equivocation, goalpost shifting, and outright detachment from reality is entertaining, but it's hardly edifying.

It's going to be VERY funny when the 5060 launches with 8 gigs at 350 USD next summer... We're going to reach a level of apoplexy usually reserved for American politics!

DAPUNISHER · May 7, 2024

reggie_fils_aime said:
Can we print this out and send it to psolord? Maybe have it affixed to his monitors? This is the entire ever-loving thing, the whole deal. An A580/750 or RX 6600/6650xt are wonderful cards... Because they provide value for money. Nearly a hundred pages of equivocation, goalpost shifting, and outright detachment from reality is entertaining, but it's hardly edifying.

It's going to be VERY funny when the 5060 launches with 8 gigs at 350 USD next summer... We're going to reach a level of apoplexy usually reserved for American politics!

We can't let the RX 7600 off the hook. The cheapest model is $250 at newegg with the rest costing more. AMD just follows whatever Nvidia does only a little cheaper with no leather interior or sunroof.

I am stoked he keeps fighting the battle here though. It is going to be entertaining to revisit in a couple of years. I wish we had a remind me forum bot...

nurturedhate · May 7, 2024

reggie_fils_aime said:
Can we print this out and send it to psolord? Maybe have it affixed to his monitors? This is the entire ever-loving thing, the whole deal. An A580/750 or RX 6600/6650xt are wonderful cards... Because they provide value for money. Nearly a hundred pages of equivocation, goalpost shifting, and outright detachment from reality is entertaining, but it's hardly edifying.

It's going to be VERY funny when the 5060 launches with 8 gigs at 350 USD next summer... We're going to reach a level of apoplexy usually reserved for American politics!

Just to repost it.

nurturedhate · May 7, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
It is going to be entertaining to revisit in a couple of years. I wish we had a remind me forum bot...

This has already been going on for a couple years

reggie_fils_aime · May 7, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
We can't let the RX 7600 off the hook. The cheapest model is $250 at newegg with the rest costing more. AMD just follows whatever Nvidia does only a little cheaper with no leather interior or sunroof.

I am stoked he keeps fighting the battle here though. It is going to be entertaining to revisit in a couple of years. I wish we had a remind me forum bot...

AMD will at least let the MSRP on those come down over time, if they can get the 7600 to present-day 6600 levels and let the XT get down to 250 bucks, they'd be okay-ish values. But at that rate, you'd still probably be able to find a 6750XT for the same price, which would totally invalidate the choice. RDNA 2 is going to really age well for budget gamers, god knows I'm happy as a clam with my 6800.

GodisanAtheist · May 7, 2024

nurturedhate said:
This has already been going on for a couple years

- It didn't even occur to me that this thread started in 2021 and is 90 pages long (at 100 posts per page).

It feels like its pretty constantly at the top of the forum and in the new posts section. The Sisyphean nature of the thread also makes it feel like you're always jumping into page 2 of the discussion...

Mopetar · May 7, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
I am stoked he keeps fighting the battle here though. It is going to be entertaining to revisit in a couple of years. I wish we had a remind me forum bot...

I don't think you need one. I'm pretty sure he'll still be posting. This thread would have probably died months ago if he didn't keep bumping it.

If he ever stops I'm going to be half tempted to call in a welfare check to make sure he's still okay. Or living I suppose.

Ranulf · May 7, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
AMD just follows whatever Nvidia does only a little cheaper with no leather interior or sunroof.

Genuine Inte...I mean Naugahyde with Traced SunRays. No roof required.

igor_kavinski · May 7, 2024

Ironically, gamers are luckier than professional users. All three vendors' professional GPU prices are nothing short of highway robbery. Even for 4GB and 6GB cards. Though AMD's W6800 32GB is within my buying power. Not that I will buy it. OK. I'll buy it if I'm very, very bored. But then, for the same money, I could buy seven 3050 6GB cards.

Decisions decisions

psolord · May 8, 2024

DAPUNISHER said:
It is if it's $300-$400. The entire point of the thread. No one is spicy about the RX 6600 or A750 because the price for 8GB is fine.

reggie_fils_aime said:
Can we print this out and send it to psolord? Maybe have it affixed to his monitors? This is the entire ever-loving thing, the whole deal. An A580/750 or RX 6600/6650xt are wonderful cards... Because they provide value for money. Nearly a hundred pages of equivocation, goalpost shifting, and outright detachment from reality is entertaining, but it's hardly edifying.

It's going to be VERY funny when the 5060 launches with 8 gigs at 350 USD next summer... We're going to reach a level of apoplexy usually reserved for American politics!

No need to print it and send it to me. I'd love all cards to be way cheaper, but I am a realist.

What I should print and send to you however, is that I have told you a hundred times already, that I have THREE 8GB cards and they are nothing alike. For me, their value is exactly where it should be.

I have an RX6600 too. Great little card, especially for the price, I agree. However this is where we are now. I fired up Everspace 2, so to see the new Lumen upgrade. Lo and behold. The game is now unplayable on the rx6600. This is what it was before from gamegpu's testing.

This is what happens with the new patch and Lumen enabled.

The game went from 72fps to 46fps for the rx6600. What this means, is that game went from playable to unplayable. The 3060ti however, still manages a playable 1080p experience. The 4060ti is 2.13X faster than the rx6600, while also being faster than the 6800s once again. Are these 8GB cards anything alike? No! So how exactly you want them to be priced? Do you really want a flat price for all? What do you want, 30$ difference for each tier? Would you follow that pricing if you were the manufacturer? Do the rest of the monetary tiers in your life, work like that?

As a side note, also keep in mind that this game, went to +56% gpu power requirement, while it increased only 10-15% in vram requirement. Let that sink in and understand what I am talking about, when I am showing you were things are heading. The marveled rtx 3060 with its 12GB, still has framedrops below 60fps. Yeah, vram aint gonna help, even in 1080p.

psolord · May 8, 2024

Mopetar said:
I don't think you need one. I'm pretty sure he'll still be posting. This thread would have probably died months ago if he didn't keep bumping it.

If he ever stops I'm going to be half tempted to call in a welfare check to make sure he's still okay. Or living I suppose.

See? At least you guys know I am alive! xD

This is an interesting thread non the less. I said, I'm here for the tech (mostly).

psolord · May 8, 2024

GodisanAtheist said:
The 3060 can absolutely do 4K, 30 FPS is absolutely playable.

It's far from ideal, but i played through Hogwart's Legacy on a 980ti and even at the "correct settings" it was waffling around 30 FPS and was very playable.

Oh wow. When you see lesser performance on some test with exorbitant settings on 8GB cards, even if they are within acceptable playability boundaries, you are all grabbing the pitchforks. Now all of a sudden, 30fps is absolutely playable? On an action game that has extreme x+z axis movement? And I am the one doing goalpost shifting? lol

igor_kavinski · May 8, 2024

psolord said:
I said, I'm here for the tech (mostly).

We are lucky that you stay confined to this thread. If other tech threads got infected with your unique brand of arguing, there could be rampant chaos and dozens or hundreds of unnecessary back and forth posts with people trying their best to help you understand something as basic as long term value of hardware and future proofing. Though I guess you are doing a service for third world country members by letting them know how to enjoy games with limited means. A lot of us here are more interested in moving the needle and progressing forward.

psolord · May 8, 2024

Oh and something else, very very interesting. Gamegpu tested a tech demo, on both UE4 and UE5. I mean who does that? These guys are epic (pun intended)

Industrial Factory Tech Demo: PC Performance Benchmarks for Graphics Cards and Processors | Test Video Cards | Sponsors

We tested the Industrial Factory Tech Demo, in versions on Unreal Engine 4 on Unreal Engine 5, on video cards from the GEFORCE RTX and RADEON RX series. Also, during the tests we conducted, we asse

gamegpu.tech

Here is the result. I will stay at 1080p.

I mean....where do I start?

The rx6600 gets less than half the performance. The RTX 3060 12GB goes tits up. The 4060ti is destroying it, as the 3060ti in a lesser degree. Not all 8GB cards are equal, as not all 12 GBs are equal, as not all 16GB cards are equal.

Vram usage goes up by 1GB, as I told you a long time ago, easy to see with the on/off switch in Karagon. However gpu power requirement more than doubles. So are we clear now, or do you need more proof of what I am saying?

psolord · May 8, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
We are lucky that you stay confined to this thread. If other tech threads got infected with your unique brand of arguing, there could be rampant chaos and dozens or hundreds of unnecessary back and forth posts with people trying their best to help you understand something as basic as long term value of hardware and future proofing. Though I guess you are doing a service for third world country members by letting them know how to enjoy games with limited means. A lot of us here are more interested in moving the needle and progressing forward.

Vram alone aint gonna future proof you my friend. See all the 3060 12GB example above. The sooner people realize that, the better. In older times I would have said nothing. These are new waters we are navigating though...

Thanks for the vote of confidence! It happens when people have a different point of view. Don't cry when Hellblade II comes out.

coercitiv · May 8, 2024

psolord said:
The game went from 72fps to 46fps for the rx6600. What this means, is that game went from playable to unplayable.

No it doesn't, what a way to misrepresent the situation. Where are your "correct settings" in this conclusion of yours? Did you tell folks they can still enjoy the game with SSGI instead of Lumen, did you tell them Lumen is not the default GI setting after the upgrade? I had to enable it manually.

I just had fun with the ES2 update, found a build I liked and took it to Lunacy 2000. For the folks who don't know, it's an ARPG & space combat sim combo, with A LOT of focus on speed and killing enemy ships quickly. Even before the UE5 update the best way to enjoy the game for me was to lock in 120FPS and lower details to High because most of the time you're chasing afterburners. The update increased load on the GPU, but since I was running with headroom to spare (to keep power down), I just kept the old settings, including FSR. I briefly tried XeSS, but did not see the same improvement I found in CP 2077, so reverted to FSR for the energy savings.

Lumen in the game looks great but there area caveats. I tried enabling twice, once during space travel and once in a darker environment. On both occasions it messed with color saturation and visibility, so I decided to keep it off while I was doing rifts and incursions, the game has enough distracting particle effects as it is. After seeing the Lumen demo video from the developer, I'll enable it while I do some exploring to check how it behaves in more environments.

igor_kavinski · May 8, 2024

psolord said:
I mean....where do I start?

The rx6600 gets less than half the performance. The RTX 3060 12GB goes tits up. The 4060ti is destroying it, as the 3060ti in a lesser degree.

OMG. What did you smoke before posting that????

How are these three cards in the same class based on pricing, for you to even be comparing them???

The 4060 Ti as usual wins the Turd Award with its pricing.

95% higher price and only 8GB VRAM?

Awesome!

/s

psolord · May 8, 2024

igor_kavinski said:
OMG. What did you smoke before posting that????

View attachment 98574
View attachment 98575
View attachment 98576

How are these three cards in the same class based on pricing, for you to even be comparing them???

The 4060 Ti as usual wins the Turd Award with its pricing.

95% higher price and only 8GB VRAM?

Awesome!

/s

OMG that's what I am saying. They are priced according to their performance and not their vram, because the latter is mostly irrelevant for their tier.

psolord · May 8, 2024

coercitiv said:
No it doesn't, what a way to misrepresent the situation. Where are your "correct settings" in this conclusion of yours? Did you tell folks they can still enjoy the game with SSGI instead of Lumen, did you tell them Lumen is not the default GI setting after the upgrade? I had to enable it manually.

I just had fun with the ES2 update, found a build I liked and took it to Lunacy 2000. For the folks who don't know, it's an ARPG & space combat sim combo, with A LOT of focus on speed and killing enemy ships quickly. Even before the UE5 update the best way to enjoy the game for me was to lock in 120FPS and lower details to High because most of the time you're chasing afterburners. The update increased load on the GPU, but since I was running with headroom to spare (to keep power down), I just kept the old settings, including FSR. I briefly tried XeSS, but did not see the same improvement I found in CP 2077, so reverted to FSR for the energy savings.

Lumen in the game looks great but there area caveats. I tried enabling twice, once during space travel and once in a darker environment. On both occasions it messed with color saturation and visibility, so I decided to keep it off while I was doing rifts and incursions, the game has enough distracting particle effects as it is. After seeing the Lumen demo video from the developer, I'll enable it while I do some exploring to check how it behaves in more environments.

So in other words, what is the conclusion? That you are going to use correct settings anyway. Isn't that what I am saying all along and you are mocking?

Tell us please, in order to reach that 120fps, what did these settings do, to your vram usage and what did they do to your gpu power?

btw these are my three tests on Everspace 2 (non monetized).

https://www.youtube.com/@toutagamon/search?query=everspace

I will stand more on the GTX 1070 vs RTX 3060ti comparison. Largely different cards. Both 8GBs. The 3060ti could do 4k/epic/dlss/60 the 1070 only 1080p/60/high. Do you see the difference or do you not? How is the 8GBs handicapping the 3060ti? They do not. The card is doing what it was meant to do. Actually way more in this one, since the 3060ti is not a 4k/dlss card. The game was just very light before the Lumen patch.

8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

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