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  1. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I’m not sure why there’s so much skepticism about the GPU claims. The M1 in Anandtech’s own testing averaged about 39fps in Rise of the Tomb Raider on 1080p Very High. A quick hunt suggests laptops packing the 3070 and 3080 mobile tend to average from 110-130 on the same benchmark. Apple...
  2. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Andrei made clear on twitter that their preview was pre-written based on the A14 in the iPad Air, and the few details from the livestream (like that slide) were inserted right before publication. Honestly, people have been repeatedly saying that Apple "changed" their claim but there's never been...
  3. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I must admit it makes no sense to me. The only possible reason to even care about ST performance is because many tasks are not optimized for multiple threads, or else are so sequential they’re run best on a single thread. It’s not too much of a simplification to say that the only two types of...
  4. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Haha, indeed it does. I'm an idiot. For transparency I won't edit it above, but 6374*1.36=8669. I should stick to ancient languages and leave math to my betters.
  5. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I believe @Bam360 is comparing the M1 in the MBP and Mini to the same chip in the Air, where efficiency gains are larger than performance loss when downclocked (correct me if I'm wrong). The implication is that an 8+4 M1X or M2X or whatever with 8 performance cores could theoretically downclock...
  6. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    You make some good points and it’s absurd you’re being downvoted. I knew perfectly well who you were taking about, by the way, and I agree. I do still disagree with you r.e. Geekbench, at least since GB 5 was released. I already mentioned that if you compare GB results with other general CPU...
  7. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I know some people treat Geekbench or SPEC like they're the holy grail of benchmarks, which is misguided. Apple people tend to focus almost exclusively on GB, while in Windows land everyone is enamored with Cinebench for reasons I can't understand. Linux people are obsessed with all the obscure...
  8. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    That is fair. Honestly, for that same reason I’ve been trying to wrap my mind around why Geekbench doesn’t unfairly favor Intel and to a lesser extent AMD over chips like the M1. A roughly 30-second benchmark should allow many x86 chips to run at PL2 essentially the entire time, and both Intel...
  9. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Geekbench has issues and arguably shouldn’t be used as the primary benchmark by as many sites, but I’ve never seen compelling evidence that it actually “favors mobile CPUs”, despite constant claims to that effect. If you read the many, extended discussions on it by Torvalds and everyone at real...
  10. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I actually agree with you here, my suggestion was that while the M1 might not match the others for raw ST performance (at hugely different power levels, obviously), the efficiency of the M1 is exactly what should set it up to scale so well to more cores and higher raw MT performance. In other...
  11. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I feel like a lot of the arguments going on here atm are pretty pointless. So here's a little totally unrelated analysis and some handwavey speculation. Big wall of text, my apologies. I feel like much of the focus on the M1 has been on its ST performance, probably because of splashy Geekbench...
  12. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I have very little use case for it, if I'm being honest, which is why I was agreeing with you. I think the lizard part of my brain wants 8 performance cores, while rationally I have little use for them. I do a few tasks regularly that completely peg the CPU on my 2016 MBP 16" (OCR, bizarrely, is...
  13. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Right, sorry, I didn’t mean for the acceleration scenarios you were describing. I meant rather that if one had to choose between improving either general multi-core CPU performance (via an 8+4 variant, thanks @name99) or general GPU performance in a larger M Chip, that perhaps GPU would have...
  14. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Spot on. I personally would be all over an 8x4 Apple Silicon CPU in an iMac or MBP16, and I'm sure it would be plenty fast. But at the end of the day, I expect most users would actually benefit more from Apple using all that extra space to massively increase the number of GPU cores, combined of...
  15. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Yep, I actually did that same calculation myself. It's a bit hand-wavey but it does suggest the 4800u might still slightly surpass the M1 at the same wattage. Out of curiosity, what's the deal with the 4800u v 4700u and down? Are these just insanely binned parts? They're extremely different...
  16. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Some more details here: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/41494-lenovo-ideapad-7-slim-review/ Looks like in performance mode the 4800u draws a bit over 30w (and 107 degrees C) for a few runs, and then levels outs around 26-27w. So yes, the M1 is running at roughly half the power. EDIT - should...
  17. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I don't think Andrei used the term TDP, he simply measured the CPU power draw for Cinebench as 15w, whereas he measures it elsewhere going as high as 24w iirc. I think the Notebookcheck scores are using an external monitor and thus monitoring whole system power draw for those Renoir Cinebench...
  18. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Looking into Cinebench a bit more... So much of the discussion about the M1 is obfuscated by the fact that Intel and AMD have very different definitions of TDP, and Apple doesn't use it at all. It's hard to find power draw numbers for a lot of this stuff, so I'm curious if others here can test...
  19. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I'm really not sure what you're trying to achieve with this. The M1 is a fantastic chip, which is demonstrably faster than AMD's 4800u, for example, in some workloads, and demonstrably slower in several others. I'm not even sure how one would quantify an "overall" fastest chip, but certainly for...
  20. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Yep, ST Cinebench slots it right at the TGL 28w 1165G7 and a bit lower than the 1185G7, so same story there. I suppose the next step to knowing how to evaluate this is people testing the actual package and core power draw during the test. i.e. is the M1 running that at 15w, 20w, 25w... EDIT -...
  21. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    MT Higher than 4700u, lower than 4800u. Way, way faster than TGL of course.
  22. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    One has to trawl through about 28 pages of GB results to find that 1716 score, which is paired with an anomalously low MT score for some reason. It's 8 pages at the moment to the first score above 1600. The theoretically faster 1185G7 is hardly shipping anywhere and only has 3 pages of results...
  23. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    That's fair. My suspicion has been that they're binning precisely as you said, with slower chips for the iPad next spring. I guess we'll see!
  24. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Yeah, I tried doing this as well, extrapolating potential Cinebench scores based on the Geekbench delta between A12Z and M1. It's not a stupid way to guess, as if you compare GB and Cinebench for A12Z and the Intel chips they track pretty well. A (wildly) speculative, extrapolated 1537 would put...
  25. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Yes to all that. I actually think the Cezanne debut, whenever it happens (4800u really only came out a couple of months ago, and still is hard to come by in shipping laptops) will be a very interesting comparison, and probably shape some of the narrative around the Apple chips.
  26. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I think scaling up to very, very high-end desktop parts will be an issue, yes, such as the 5950x for example. And the jury is obviously still out on how Apple tries to achieve that, as others have been discussing here (chiplets, huge monolith, etc.). However, regarding those scores you posted...
  27. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    100% agree there. Hopefully we'll have answers soon. For what it's worth, I too am skeptical that the M1 cores can be scaled up to 5950X type MT workloads. It remains to be seen, of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's desktops never quite catch up with the best from AMD or whoever...
  28. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I think you're probably right to guess the Tiger Lake H will match M1 in ST performance. I would be surprised if Zen 3 mobile does. The M1 doesn't really compete with the H-series chips though, or really even with Zen chips running at 25w. Rumors from manufacturing have for almost a year now...
  29. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    You keep saying that core performance of all these Zen 3 parts are higher than the Firestorm core, but what exactly is your metric for saying so? I'm not arguing that they're not better, necessarily, just that we have very little data yet, and for better or worse what we have is Geekbench for...
  30. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    For my work there are also a lot of uses for which an iPad Pro is superior to a Macbook. I'm an academic and prefer my research to be digital when possible, so I read a bajillion PDFs for research. Plenty of studies suggest reading while taking notes by hand has cognitive advantages over typing...
  31. I

    Apple A14 - 5 nm, 11.8 billion transistors

    @insertcarehere is correct, and I goofed. That 9-10w was, as you suggested, the total power draw of the iPad Pro while playing an intensive game per the Anandtech review. In terms of the M1 MBA, then, I suppose how aggressively and how soon it has to throttle the chip to keep at 10w sustained...
  32. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Responding to this because I suspect I'm misunderstanding how best to read these results. I thought precisely because it was a user-submitted benchmark, the more solid place to look for typical scores was in the Processor Benchmarks listing, which is what I linked. I believe those are...
  33. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Unless I'm misunderstanding something, it's actually a bit faster MT than the Ryzen 9 4900HS, their higher-watt laptop part. The 4800U is a good bit slower than that. Zen 3 mobile will presumably change that equation whenever they come, though of course the M1 single core appears to be slightly...
  34. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Grain of salt, as always. https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4648107 EDIT: And here's the Mini. Some variation (which might lend credence) and also the suggestion that the peak power of the MBA and the actively cooled are similar, though expect the fanless version to throttle similarly to an...
  35. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    For sure, I expect they're using it because it's there, essentially. Not a bad side benefit but I do wonder if they'll use it for anything else or if it's mostly wasted space on the Mac?
  36. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Worth noting that they are using the ISP to attempt to sharpen the image on the webcam. I can't imagine you can do much to improve that terrible 720p camera, but I suppose we'll see.
  37. I

    Apple A14 - 5 nm, 11.8 billion transistors

    I think the difference between the MBP and MBA being essentially a fan make sense if we assume this is the A14X. The A12Z in the iPad Pro apparently runs right around 9-10w in sustained load, which is precisely the sustained thermal budget for the MBA. But as we all know that's because the iPad...
  38. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    I feel like it gives some room for speculation about eventual SKUs in the future. 7 core binned chips for the entry MBA and 8 core for the high-end MBA and entry MBP13. Presumably in the next generation something like a more-CPU-core M2X binned for less functional GPU cores on the middle MBP13...
  39. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    Yeah, I expect Baldur's Gate is native. Larian is also bringing Divinity Original Sin 2 to the iPad sometime soon, so it seems like they're supporting Apple's Arm efforts in general. EDIT: Also note this tweet from the head of the Apple Silicon Graphics Drivers Team, who explicitly calls at...
  40. I

    Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

    The MBA replaces all Intel models, but the MBP only replaces the lower-end, two-port Intel models, and the high-end Intel models remain in the lineup. Same for Mac Mini. The M1 is probably an A14X with added IO and such, and I'm guessing the 16GB RAM ceiling and the 2 port limit is associated...
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