8GB VRAM not enough (and 10 / 12)

[BFG10K]

8GB

• Dying Light 2, Battlefield 2042, Avatar Frontiers of Pandora, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, Starfield, Forza Horizon 5, Horizon Forbidden West, Alan Wake 2, The Last of Us, Tekken 8, FC 24, Detroit Become Human, Death Stranding, Alone in The Dark, Overwatch 2
  3060 12GB higher 1% low than 4060 8GB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIfz57wmywg
• Cyberpunk 2077, Diablo 4, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Zero Dawn, Microsoft Flight Sim 2020, Witcher 3, Watch Dogs Legion skip to 4K + DLSS for each game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPiaWWd0xGc
• Ratchet & Clank, Plague Tale Requiem, Last Of Us, Jedi Survivor, Far Cry 6, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Cyberpunk 2077 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr3MckDxMfE&pp=ygUTMTZnYiB2cyA4Z2IgNDA2MCB0aQ==
• Far Cry 6, Godfall, Hogwarts Legacy, Forza Horizon 5, Forspoken, Doom Eternal, Watchdogs Legion https://youtu.be/fJc--C01P90?t=268
• Last Of Us, Resident Evil 4, Callisto Protocol, Plague Tale Requiem, Halo Infinite, Forspoken https://youtu.be/2_Y3E631ro8?t=429
• Last Of Us, Hogwarts Legacy, Resident Evil 4, Forspoken, Plague Tale Requiem, Callisto Protocol https://youtu.be/Rh7kFgHe21k?t=288
• Hogwarts Legacy, Last Of Us, Spider Man Remastered, Doom Eternal, Forza Horizon 5 https://youtu.be/R943CbDTq_s?t=1473
• Horizon Forbidden West 4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off frame generation and reduce settings to high https://youtu.be/3AyKvI23VGw?t=233
• Horizon Forbidden West 3070 requires reducing textures 2 notches https://youtu.be/xTwEGy6HHKo?t=351
• Deathloop https://youtu.be/lu_XHyO-6zY?t=918
• Ghost Recon Breakpoint https://youtu.be/iUGppQVpXzU?t=529
• Resident Evil 2 https://youtu.be/Aa-gsgRjMII?t=796
• Talos Principle 2 https://youtu.be/K6FATQAuEwI?t=337
• Spider Man Remastered https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1060
• Witcher 3 https://youtu.be/vRVR_plVSlc?t=1240

Horizon Forbidden West 3060 is faster than the 2080 Super despite the former usually competing with the 2070. Also 3060 has a better 1% low than 4060 and 4060Ti 8GB.

Spoiler

Resident Evil Village 3060TI/3070 tanks at 4K and is slower than the 3060/6700XT when ray tracing:

Spoiler

Company Of Heroes 3060 has a higher minimum than the 3070TI:

Spoiler

10GB / 12GB

• Plague Tale Requiem 3080 10GB tanks if you enable ray tracing, would be fast enough if it had more VRAM because if you stop moving, the framerate stabilizes to >60FPS https://youtu.be/7zjrMww3fAc?t=496
• Hogwarts Legacy 4K + RT, 4060Ti 16GB is faster than 4070 12GB https://youtu.be/X-h_R488Mq8?t=191

Reasons why still shipping 8GB since 2014 isn't NV's fault.

Spoiler

1. It's the player's fault.
2. It's the reviewer's fault.
3. It's the developer's fault.
4. It's AMD's fault.
5. It's the game's fault.
6. It's the driver's fault.
7. It's a system configuration issue.
8. Wrong settings were tested.
9. Wrong area was tested.
10. Wrong games were tested.
11. 4K is irrelevant.
12. Texture quality is irrelevant as long as it matches a console's.
13. Detail levels are irrelevant as long as they match a console's.
14. There's no reason a game should use more than 8GB, because a random forum user said so.
15. It's completely acceptable for the more expensive 3070/3070TI/3080 to turn down settings while the cheaper 3060/6700XT has no issue.
16. It's an anomaly.
17. It's a console port.
18. It's a conspiracy against NV.
19. 8GB cards aren't meant for 4K / 1440p / 1080p / 720p gaming.
20. It's completely acceptable to disable ray tracing on NV while AMD has no issue.
21. Polls, hardware market share, and game title count are evidence 8GB is enough, but are totally ignored when they don't suit the ray tracing agenda.

According to some people here, 8GB is neeeevaaaaah NV's fault and objective evidence "doesn't count" because of reasons(tm). If you have others please let me know and I'll add them to the list. Cheers!

 

[DeathReborn]

I know, right? Speaking of which, I was thinking of starting a thread:

Dual-core CPU and 4GB system RAM are getting close to the good enough forever point.

I'll have my friend Bill Gates pop in and tell me I'm wrong about the RAM, it's actually 640K.

Do you think people will agree with me, or think I'm a flat-earther lunatic?

Is it belief when they see you look over the edge and fall off?

Even with both a 3080 10GB & a 6800 16GB I seem to spend more time gaming on the 6800 because I want to crank the Textures, I accept the generally lower FPS by having better looking games.

ps: 640K was amazing for DOS, kinda sucked with the bloatware called Windows though...

 

[psolord]

It's actually an intentional disinformation tactic. Try to bury the facts with a shower of unrelated diarrhea in the hopes to extinguish the topic. That's exactly why the posts are constant masturbation of inline images and videos.

How is it disinformation ffs? What facts am I burying? I am giving you visual PROOF.

"There are no elephants in my backyard, therefore elephants don't exist anywhere. Here are 39 irrelevant pictures of my backyard so you can scroll for 5 minutes to get past them!"

They are not irrelevant. They are addressing the issue at its core.

Also the more he trolls the thread, the more his personal Youtube channel gets views because he keeps linking to his own videos. I've reported this, as there's no way this is acceptable under the forum rules of self-promotion.

There's something very fishy about this whole thing, and the agenda here needs to be questioned. "Oh, I'm just a poor lil' enthusiast that likes debating graphics cards" isn't fooling anyone.

Oh wow, please don't give me views, I may actually become rich from the 10 people that watch the videos, lol.

This is a hobbyist NON MONETIZED channel, since 2006. No processed thumbnails, no clickbaity titles, no please subscribe begging, no extra effort whatsoever. Btw I am hot on the heels uploading GTX 970 stuff lately, because that's what a businessman does, he uploads 9.5yo card vids, right?

The only reason you reported, is because you don't like an opposing voice to YOUR agenda. After all, it is you who started this thread, not I.

 

[Mopetar]

How is it disinformation ffs? What facts am I burying? I am giving you visual PROOF.

Most of the time your "proof" isn't proving anything. Either you've made claims that your evidence cannot support, or in many cases as several other posters who've taken the time to dig through the videos or charts that you've linked, actually prove the opposite of what you claim.

I don't know what it is you think you're accomplishing, but I don't think it's working. Even the persecution shtick falls flat because after dozens of pages where you continue to do the same only to be refuted, it's not at all surprising that people's patience has worn thin and they're being short with you.

 

[blckgrffn]

I am little baffled at this thread.

As of now, AFAIK, we have the debaters agreeing:

8 GB is too little for 1440p now and for the future.

8GB at this time is fine budget 1080p.

8GB is a current compromise at 1440p and higher but if you dial stuff down it works.

Some cards have more memory than the GPU can use now but texture packs exist and work better on GPUs with more ram regardless of how putrid the underlying frame rate might be.

RT stresses memory buffers.

And yet the thread rages on 😂

 

[coercitiv]

As of now, AFAIK, we have the debaters agreeing:

This is where you're wrong. Try to get @psolord to agree on anything in this thread, any of the bulletpoints above. You will quickly notice you can't really get a straight answer from him.

Let me show you how it works, alas I'm a simple padawan:

• 8 GB is too little for 1440p now and for the future. Maybe, but UE5 titles will destroy any current card. Shading power is what matters going forward. 8GB cards are 1080p cards really, and there's a finite amount of memory required for 1080p in games.
• 8 GB at this time is fine budget 1080p. I have a few 8GB cards and they are not the same. They are built differently, each with a different experience. These cards do not belong in the same price category, just like not all eggs belong in the same basket.
• 8 GB is a current compromise at 1440p and higher but if you dial stuff down it works. Look at how 4060Ti is beating the 3060 in game X and Y and Z [SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT], more memory won't save you friend. The shading apocalypse is coming.
• Some cards have more memory than the GPU can use now but texture packs exist . The 4060Ti 16GB is a different price tier for people looking for a different experience. It's really that simple.

 

[nurturedhate]

You cannot draw conclusions from comparisons of the past

This singular statement from you...
Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

 

[nurturedhate]

duplicate

 

[blckgrffn]

This is where you're wrong. Try to get @psolord to agree on anything in this thread, any of the bulletpoints above. You will quickly notice you can't really get a straight answer from him.

Let me show you how it works, alas I'm a simple padawan:

• 8 GB is too little for 1440p now and for the future. Maybe, but UE5 titles will destroy any current card. Shading power is what matters going forward. 8GB cards are 1080p cards really, and there's a finite amount of memory required for 1080p in games.
• 8 GB at this time is fine budget 1080p. I have a few 8GB cards and they are not the same. They are built differently, each with a different experience. These cards do not belong in the same price category, just like not all eggs belong in the same basket.
• 8 GB is a current compromise at 1440p and higher but if you dial stuff down it works. Look at how 4060Ti is beating the 3060 in game X and Y and Z [SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT][SCREENSHOT], more memory won't save you friend. The shading apocalypse is coming.
• Some cards have more memory than the GPU can use now but texture packs exist . The 4060Ti 16GB is a different price tier for people looking for a different experience. It's really that simple.

There is no sigh emoji. I would use it if possible.

I admit defeat. I thought it could be more simple. Even some of your counterpoints, all accurate from my recollection of reading this thread aren’t even counter points or disagreements but just some sort of parallel train of thought that’s divergent in details but not outcomes. Very well done.

I do accept you as the stand in, if required, if this thread dies out due to lack of… continued debate.

 

[igor_kavinski]

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/microsoft-aims-to-boost-ray-tracing-performance-in-vram-constrained-scenarios-patent-describes-a-new-level-of-detail-system-for-rt-effects

I don't mind 8GB cards getting better at raytracing due to this RT LOD system. But not sure if M$ will bring it to PC. They might eventually but by then, would it still be relevant? Do we want to buy 8GB cards today for "maybe" enjoying raytracing in the future with a tech that may or may not materialize?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Here's a perfect example of why reviewers having 30 second or less test runs is useless to the VRAM debate. And makes throwing around their results as evidence a fool's errand. Forbidden West doesn't have vram issues they said. It'll run great they said. LULZ

This is the 4060 crapping the bed at 1080 with the features that are heavily promoted as being a reason to buy it, by overflowing into system ram.

 

[Ranulf]

Notice the 1% lows too. With or without FG its under 60fps at very high qual. Same at high settings too, 53fps 1% low there.

2 year old ps4/5 console port. Good looking but enjoy those nice new premium features that need more than 8GB of ram.

 

[BFG10K]

Here's a perfect example of why reviewers having 30 second or less test runs is useless to the VRAM debate. And makes throwing around their results as evidence a fool's errand. Forbidden West doesn't have vram issues they said. It'll run great they said. LULZ

This is the 4060 crapping the bed at 1080 with the features that are heavily promoted as being a reason to buy it, by overflowing into system ram.

Good find, added to OP.

4060 has issues @ 1080p + DLSS unless you switch off FG and drop to high. Frame Generation actually causes a performance hit, lol.

His other video shows 6700XT 12GB is fine @ 1440p native, very high, no upscaling needed.

Wait, don't tell me...1440p native on 6700XT is "incorrect". The "proper setting" for both cards is 720p + upscale. That way 8GB "is just fine", amirite?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Wait, don't tell me...1440p native on 6700XT is "incorrect".

Nah, he just gonna claim that game unfairly favors Radeon cards.

 

[igor_kavinski]

OH NO! Psolord needs to explain the 8GB thing to Tom too! https://www.tomshardware.com/video-...sis-another-game-that-can-exceed-8gb-vram-use


The minimums are better on the 16GB card so the GPU horsepower is useless if there is too much shuffling between VRAM and system RAM.

But @psolord, bro, you better make an account on their forums to show them the light otherwise they will mislead the public into ditching 8GB cards!

 

[MrPickins]

Nah, he just gonna claim that game unfairly favors Radeon cards.

OH NO! Psolord needs to explain the 8GB thing to Tom too! https://www.tomshardware.com/video-...sis-another-game-that-can-exceed-8gb-vram-use

Not that it's going to affect the lows (and thus doesn't negate the VRAM issue), but I do think the game is tuned specifically for RDNA2 (even over RDNA3). Look at how the 6800XT beats the 7800XT in all but 4K, and by up to ~10%.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Look at how the 6800XT beats the 7800XT in all but 4K, and by up to ~10%.

AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 21, 2250 MHz, 4608 Cores, 288 TMUs, 128 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2000 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2430 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2438 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

​	6800 XT​	7800 XT​	DIFFERENCE (%)​
Pixel Rate Gpixel/s​	288​	233.3​	18.99​
Texture Rate Gtexel/s​	648​	583.2​	10.00​

That's coz the 7800 XT is more compute optimized than raster optimized, compared to the 6800 XT.



Wish AMD had given us identical cores and TMUs for the 7800 XT.

 

[blckgrffn]

AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 21, 2250 MHz, 4608 Cores, 288 TMUs, 128 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2000 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2430 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2438 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

​	6800 XT​	7800 XT​	DIFFERENCE (%)​
Pixel Rate Gpixel/s​	288​	233.3​	18.99​
Texture Rate Gtexel/s​	648​	583.2​	10.00​

That's coz the 7800 XT is more compute optimized than raster optimized, compared to the 6800 XT.

View attachment 95849

Wish AMD had given us identical cores and TMUs for the 7800 XT.

Just prepping for the UE5 compute-calypse!

Really though, highly optimized console titles right now are going to favor RDNA2 and 10-12GB of frame buffer. Because that’s what the consoles, a fixed target, offer. I think this is super notable because lacking this RDNA would not be a target at all and Nvidia would be further able to flex the muscles to set the standard. If the current gen consoles didn’t exist I am sure very few titles would run outside of 8GB due to the PC install levels making that a defacto standard. IMO.

 

[MrPickins]

Wish AMD had given us identical cores and TMUs for the 7800 XT.

For sure. If I had a crystal ball, I'd probably have waited for the 7900GRE over the 7800XT. Regardless, it does what I need, so I'm not going to bother regretting the purchase.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Add Forbidden West to the list of games where it's sponsored by one vendor but runs better on a competitor's hardware. 2080 Super is big OOF.

 

[Hitman928]

Add Forbidden West to the list of games where it's sponsored by one vendor but runs better on a competitor's hardware. 2080 Super is big OOF.

Looks like 10 GB isn't enough at 4K very high but 12 GB does fine, at least according to Tom's charts.

 

[blckgrffn]

Add Forbidden West to the list of games where it's sponsored by one vendor but runs better on a competitor's hardware. 2080 Super is big OOF.

Makes you wonder if there isn’t some driver optimization or even some fixed function hardware the 2080 is missing. The 5700XT doesn’t make any sense landing where it does unless this is something where the highly packed math or the other magic sauce Vega introduced actually gets used. I am blanking on some of the names…

 

[Ranulf]

Yeah, now I want to see what a 2070/60 cards do, super or standard versions. A 2060Super is about 5% slower than a 3060 but it has 8GB ram, like the 2080Super. I'd buy the game to try it but I'm waiting for a sale and the GoG version, not that really into this series.

 

[MrTeal]

Makes you wonder if there isn’t some driver optimization or even some fixed function hardware the 2080 is missing. The 5700XT doesn’t make any sense landing where it does unless this is something where the highly packed math or the other magic sauce Vega introduced actually gets used. I am blanking on some of the names…

They probably just screwed up the latest driver and set fPreviousGenPerformanceModifier to 0.27 instead of 0.72
Just a butterfingers mistake.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Just a butterfingers mistake.

They already have a solution for those 2000 series peasants. The magnificent 4060! Enter the wonderful world of breathtaking RT and DLSS3. Get just a whiff of them and then spend the next few months saving up for a 4070 to experience those technologies the way they were meant to be played! It's completely OK to donate $300 to Jensen. He's working hard to make pathtracing a reality! Help him HELP YOU!

 

[blckgrffn]

Yeah, now I want to see what a 2070/60 cards do, super or standard versions. A 2060Super is about 5% slower than a 3060 but it has 8GB ram, like the 2080Super. I'd buy the game to try it but I'm waiting for a sale and the GoG version, not that really into this series.

2060 12GB, our Eth mining savior with a 2060S core and 192 Bit 12GB frame buffer, would be the real one I would like to see in the test as the only other 2000 generation card with a greater than 8GB frame buffer. If it succeeded where the 2080S stumbled that’d be pretty funny, but seems unlikely.