Question Excellent article on OLED burn-in research

[igor_kavinski]

Why OLED monitor burn-in isn’t a huge problem anymore

Burn-in likelihood has to do with the user and OEM, not just OLED materials.

arstechnica.com

For me, the eye-opening part is that older, worn out and less bright pixels may need higher voltage levels to bring their brightness up to normal levels. That voltage bump will also increase the heat generation which will then degrade the pixels faster. So if you have an OLED working fine for years, consider it a miracle.

 

[Chapbass]

To me, the problem very clearly seems to be settings. The number of people who buy a monitor, leave it at default settings (aka brightness 100%), then bitch about burn-in is most likely the majority.

 

[nOOky]

I set my monitor to turn off after 10 minutes of inactivity, and let it do it's pixel shift thing after every 4 hours. Other than that things wear out, and yippy, you get to buy new things!

 

[AdamK47]

I have been running my LG G1 77" with automatic static brightness limiter (ABSL) turned off through the service menu since I bought it in March of last year. Checked for burn in yesterday. None.

I use my own settings from the Standard setting preset in the menu. Brightness at 100 and Contrast at 75. The TV is in a room where I can eliminate all sun light. None gets in. I usually keep two programable can lights on in the back of the room at their lowest white light setting. The TV gets plenty bright in this environment. Play hours of PC games on it. Sometimes streaming movies and shows. The TV is only used by me and is the only display connected to my PC.

If I ever upgrade to an MLA LG panel, I'd set the brightens at an equivalent luman output as my G1 is at now.

 

[mindless1]

Lifespan still too short to hold my interest. I don't subscribe to the concept of upgrading major appliances sooner because they wear out faster to give you more *performance*, nor do I want to have to dim the room more than I otherwise would, nor suffer through many modern TV shows and movies where the dark scenes are practically unwatchable without higher brightness... just not going to keep readjusting the TV every other show.

On the other hand, for computer monitor use, I turn brightness down and towards a warm color temp, for less eye fatigue.

 

[igor_kavinski]

On the other hand, for computer monitor use, I turn brightness down and towards a warm color temp, for less eye fatigue.

I'm not watching on my OLED these days coz I'm too lazy to find the remote or hook up the PC to it (I moved and everything is in disarray). Been watching movies on a 17 inch Dell Precision laptop with 4K panel. The colors are really good and for some reason I don't understand, dark scenes don't look bad on it. I'm beginning to think that OLED is just overhyped or looks good to people who are exposed to really bad displays in their daily use. Or my memory is really bad and I've forgotten how good OLED looks. Maybe I really should find that remote...

 

[mindless1]

^ I couldn't even watch a movie on a 17" for a minute without stopping and getting a larger display working to do so. Setting that up would be a secondary priority when I had free time after moving, first priorities being food/clothing/work, but work includes having a larger display panel too.

A panel at or above 32", at least 1440p or more/better, means far more to me than picture quality. That doesn't mean I need a 70" TV, IMO there are diminishing returns based on viewing distance. If I have to turn my head, it's too big, lol. Maybe more acceptable for open world movies or games, jurassic park or similar.

 

[DaaQ]

If you had someone go from a samsung QLED, the problem was it was 65 inch. To a Samsung QD-OLED 77" what would you do to get the "settings' RIGHT?

Room is not excessively bright during daytime. I spent a couple hours last night setting up each HDMI source to some recommended settings of AVSF. One is a cable Tivo box XG1 I think is model, it has 4k upscaling on the apps. But all broadcast channels are 1080p.
I set the 4k Roku premiere just a tad different.

this is a SS qn89c supposedly has the QD OLED 2nd gen panel in it not the LG WOLED panel. Bestbuy BF deal. Speculation is it's similar to the qn90c or 95c without the extras.

I tried some color accuracy settings from AVS forums last night, those got changed during today.

I think he is used to the samsung oversaturation Vivid mode. But I digress.

 

[aigomorla]

Autodimming still sucks horribly with OLED's and every last one does it.

You increase a white window really big, and it will autodim the hell out of the screen.

I love OLED's but only when im watching a Movie, and thats about it.
Otherwise im still sitting in the Mini LED boot camp as OLED's can not compete against a MINI LED in HDR and dynamic lighting effects.

But color and true blacks, OLED's win, until we get MicroLED's.

 

[DaaQ]

I must have got it right this last time, or the 100 hour burn in is true. (break in period, what have you)

He is loving it now, feels like he is at the actual game, says it feels 3D. LOL my mother in law told me he called her in the room and she said he was STANDING in front of it.

Reminded me of Clark Griswold. Griswald? Chevy Chase from vacation.

 

[aigomorla]

I must have got it right this last time, or the 100 hour burn in is true. (break in period, what have you)

He is loving it now, feels like he is at the actual game, says it feels 3D. LOL my mother in law told me he called her in the room and she said he was STANDING in front of it.

Reminded me of Clark Griswold. Griswald? Chevy Chase from vacation.

yeah movies and games they do great, until HDR comes into play and your in a well lite room.

HDR on a Mini LED is blinding... you feel that flashbang when the whole screen bang's white.
HDR on a OLED autodims to hell depending on how big the HDR bright spot is, because thats how autodimming works.

My TV will always be a OLED... hands down.
But my PC monitors will always be a NanoIPS or a MiniLED with lots of FALD zones, because they offer greater HDR and don't suffer from auto dimming.

 

[aigomorla]

I found this which came out reciently which explains the pro's of each display tech:

In all the one to rule them all is the Micro-LED, however we aren't just there yet in technology.

 

[Leeea]

I have no issues at all with my oled monitor, but I am weird.

I like very dark rooms.

I like dark ui's.

I run my monitor with auto-dim turned off, but auto-move still enabled.

But the biggest thing? I run it at 30% brightness.

So, yea. I am weird.

 

[Leeea]

Autodimming still sucks horribly with OLED's and every last one does it.

You increase a white window really big, and it will autodim the hell out of the screen.

I love OLED's but only when im watching a Movie, and thats about it.
Otherwise im still sitting in the Mini LED boot camp as OLED's can not compete against a MINI LED in HDR and dynamic lighting effects.

But color and true blacks, OLED's win, until we get MicroLED's.

auto-dimming can be bypassed. Warranties are overrated anyway.

 

[Leeea]

OLED's can not compete against a MINI LED in HDR and dynamic lighting effects.

Heresy! Actually, personal preference, but I have to defend Oled. The games grab full screen and run their own brightness and stuff, and I have never been able to compare to mini-led. The Elden Ring sparks look fantastic though.

I would have though mini-led would have issues with ghosting (from the backlighting) with sparks and point light sources? I realize it is 1200 backlight zones, and much brighter. But when sitting close to the screen is brightness actually better then per pixel contrast?

 

[AdamK47]

My 77" LG G1 does not auto dim at all. I have ASBL turned off in the service menu. Static content does not trigger any sort of dimming. I use standard picture mode with 100% brightness and 75% contrast. The G1 uses a deuterium panel (which the C2/C3 got later on). Allows higher brightness with lower chance of burn in. In non HDR mode, 100% brightness and 75% contrast in standard picture mode (please never use vivid, just don't, ever) will not limit brightness even with a 100% white screen. Brightness remains consistent in all content. Just like it is on an old LED/LCD panel. You do have to be careful. Basically not be an idiot. Don't leave the display on when away with static content displayed. Turn off when not actively using it. Vary the content. Mine is used mostly for PC gaming and content streaming. I don't use it for my day job.

 

[aigomorla]

But when sitting close to the screen is brightness actually better then per pixel contrast?

It mostly depends if you sit in a cave where your ambients are kept dark.
If your in a well lite room, then VA / IPS / Mini-LED's make a whole world of difference when it comes to HDR, in bloom effects, and other HDR settings.

If your in a dark room all the time, then no, because any level of light will be compounded many times over without any ambient light.

Ghosting is mostly only applied on IPS panels as well, and you see very little of it on VA and Mini-LED.
Even then, you get the 240hz panels on the Mini-LED line, so it becomes moot.

As i said OLED's have there niche, but i use my monitors more for other stuff outside gaming and watching movies. And i sort of like just walking away and letting the PC goto sleep naturally, then having to actively put it to sleep.

Also i HATE autodimming, screen cleaning, and other stuff OLED monitors have, which makes it less appealing to me and a lot of other people who just want a great multi use monitor thats not centeralized on gaming or watching movies.

 

[Leeea]

And i sort of like just walking away and letting the PC goto sleep naturally

ok, I understand why you would feel this is a problem, but I never actively put my monitor to sleep.

GitHub - JPersson77/LGTVCompanion: Power On and Off WebOS LG TVs together with your PC

Power On and Off WebOS LG TVs together with your PC - JPersson77/LGTVCompanion

github.com

( allows LG TVs to basically function as a normal monitor turning on and off like a normal monitor would )

Also i HATE autodimming

Yea, I turned that off first thing

screen cleaning

If your referring to pixel refresh, my understand is that should never be ran.

If your referring to something else, then I am confused.

and other stuff OLED monitors have

This can be an issue at 100% zoom. For whatever reason, this completely goes for me away as soon as any zoom is applied. I am not the only person to notice this. For me, 125% zoom on a 4k monitor is rather nice. Once again, personal preference.

I think it has something to do with how windows does fonts.

 

[aigomorla]

If your referring to pixel refresh, my understand is that should never be ran.

LG monitors, go into Pixel cleaning every 30 minutes or so when the monitor is in sleep. I know its like a few hours on TV's but on monitors its a lot more frequent.

Its annoying as heck, i don't know about the Samsung QD-OLED's, but LG's do it.

I also don't like using a TV as a monitor. Im on a multi screen setup, and i prefer DP over HDMI.

When it goes into that pixel cleaning, it tends to move my windows around and that also annoyed me.
I don't have that problem anymore since i changed to a MiniLED on that monitor.

I am also thinking this is why samsung decided to make the Oddsey Ark a Mini LED and not a OLED.

 

[AdamK47]

LG monitors, go into Pixel cleaning every 30 minutes or so when the monitor is in sleep. I know its like a few hours on TV's but on monitors its a lot more frequent.

Its annoying as heck, i don't know about the Samsung QD-OLED's, but LG's do it.

I also don't like using a TV as a monitor. Im on a multi screen setup, and i prefer DP over HDMI.

When it goes into that pixel cleaning, it tends to move my windows around and that also annoyed me.
I don't have that problem anymore since i changed to a MiniLED on that monitor.

I am also thinking this is why samsung decided to make the Oddsey Ark a Mini LED and not a OLED.

On my LG G1, C9 and C8 it is recommended to never manually initiate Pixel Cleaning unless there are signs of image retention. They do recommend running it every 2000 hours. The display will do a compensation cycle when turned off after at least 4 hours of combined usage. This usually only takes a few minutes. None of these two things happen when the display is in use.

 

[AdamK47]

I should also mention that I did have a pretty pricy mini-LED 32" display at one time.

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Could not get used to the haloing when gaming. The IPS glow around the edges was also irritating. Overall black level uniformity and color quality was very much lacking to what I was used to with the OLEDs I had prior.

Returned it. Decided to go back to using an OLED TV with big floor standing speakers all around since I had an entire room to devote to it. That's when I found a good deal on a leftover 77" G1 for $3400 at the time. Absolutely no regrets.

 

[aigomorla]

On my LG G1, C9 and C8 it is recommended to never manually initiate Pixel Cleaning unless there are signs of image retention. They do recommend running it every 2000 hours. The display will do a compensation cycle when turned off after at least 4 hours of combined usage. This usually only takes a few minutes. None of these two things happen when the display is in use.

You see this isn't what happens on a real LG OLED monitor tho.
It automatically goes into pixel refresh every time the thing goes to sleep longer then 30 min.
I have the 48GQ900-B which i could not tollerate as i could not get auto dimming to turn off, and pixel cleaning.

I even had the monitor connected directly to my PC Via USB, i could control it via Software on my PC, and still it gave me issues.

Could not get used to the haloing when gaming. The IPS glow around the edges was also irritating. Overall black level uniformity and color quality was very much lacking to what I was used to with the OLEDs I had prior.

I don't understand how you would get IPS glow on the edges if it was a FALD.
I have a NEO G7 and ive played with a NEO G8 and NEO G9.
Maybe samsung Mini LED's are better in this scenario as its QD Mini LED.

But my NEO G7 only has 360 FALD zones compared to the Neo G8 which has 1152, and i didn't notice the IPS glow your talking about on either. Infact i think QD-Dots are more VA, and its a Mini LED version off those.

Even on my Nano-IPS Alien ware IPS glow is very minimal, and not even noticable unless its sitting in a dark room, which i rarely sit in, as it is bad for your eyes, and my eyes are getting there with age.


At any rate, i don't think i could ever use a TV as a monitor.
I am at the mercy of DP as i run a multi monitor setup.
I do have a 65" G3 i watch for movies and other stuff, and it is super bright, but my Neo G7 will beat it in contrast and HDR any day of the week.
But color wise the G3 will win without any contest until you sitting in day light and have sunlight bleeding in the room to make ambient lighting very bright.

 

[Leeea]

LG monitors, go into Pixel cleaning every 30 minutes or so when the monitor is in sleep. I know its like a few hours on TV's but on monitors its a lot more frequent.

Its annoying as heck, i don't know about the Samsung QD-OLED's, but LG's do it.

I also don't like using a TV as a monitor. Im on a multi screen setup, and i prefer DP over HDMI.

When it goes into that pixel cleaning, it tends to move my windows around and that also annoyed me.
I don't have that problem anymore since i changed to a MiniLED on that monitor.

I am also thinking this is why samsung decided to make the Oddsey Ark a Mini LED and not a OLED.

I have an lg c2 oled 42", I use it as a daily driver computer monitor.

I have never seen anything like that.


wait ... by pixel cleaning do you mean pixel moving? Because I do leave that on. I never minded it. The slight imperceptibly slow movement of the windows is all but unnoticeable to me. I think it takes about an hour for them to move a 1/16 of an inch?

its recommended to never manually initiate Pixel Cleaning unless there are signs of image retention.

this is my understanding

The display will do a compensation cycle when turned off after at least 4 hours of combined usage. This usually only takes a few minutes. None of these two things happen when the display is in use.

I was unaware of this. I do not think I have seen this happen, but in truth I never turn the display off.

The computer turns its self off after about 10 minutes and I am never around when it happens.

I have the 48GQ900-B which i could not tollerate as i could not get auto dimming to turn off, and pixel cleaning.

if you cannot turn off auto-dimming, I agree, it is a severely degraded experience.

On the TVs a MKJ39170828 service remote can turn off auto dimming, auto-etc, and do many other things. Do not press the "in stop" button. Voids warranty. Use at your own risk.

 

[aigomorla]

wait ... by pixel cleaning do you mean pixel moving? Because I do leave that on. I never minded it. The slight imperceptibly slow movement of the windows is all but unnoticeable to me. I think it takes about an hour for them to move a 1/16 of an inch?

No it pixel shifts too, but monitors pixel clean.
My TV doesn't do this, and i know your not suposed to, but my Monitor will do it constantly, which is why i retired it and put it on shield duty in my room.
But i do have the extended geek squad warrenty on it, should it ever die or have burn in issues.

And yeah, auto dim won't turn off on the 48GQ900-B.
Which is why i retired it.
Everytime i move over a explorer window, or a excel sheet to that monitor, the contrast takes a major hit in reduction.

 

[WhiteNoise]

My LG G2 OLED TV (used as a monitor) was one of the greatest upgrades (visually) I have ever experienced. My Samsung QLED was fantastic but damn, the OLED just pops so much more. I'm not sure I could settle for anything less.