Article Tom's Hardware Core i9 9900KS Preview

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Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,810
1,159
136
Power efficiency is incredible for 14nm.
Edit: Consumes 50 watts less than the i9 9900K @ 5GHz.



Link
 
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TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
748
353
106
Power virus? Please.



That's . . . great. I think?



Yawn.
FP is not bound by RAM speed, at least not the tests used by AT or Computerbase, the 99000K/KS do indeed quite well in this area.

Now on Integer it could be different like in 7Zip where the 3700X display 30% better perf/clock than CFL at Computerbase.de.

The discrepancy between the 9900K and the KS at AT is either due to the security mitigations if effectively implemented, or more simply to the 9900K being tested at the time with 3200MHz RAM like in their Ryzen 3000 review, but this latter possibility shouldnt had effects on the FP results.

That being said it s up to Intel to validate their IMC at higher frequency, PL1/PL2 tinkering is not technically overclocking since it s still within Intel s official specs and settings, and in this register the 9900KS use 172W in Cinebench to clock at 5GHz, according to the reviewer 159W is not enough to do so.
so where have you been when 1800x and 2700x eat more than their spec....
another the Stilt left post
there is no more to learn here
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,783
7,995
136
And if you wonder about DC, go in there and read a few threads. People talking about when its hot they have to turn them off, or cold, and they fire a bunch up.

I did F@H for something like 15 years - gave it up because electricity costs in New England suck.
 

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,181
1,772
136
I hope this is not another semantic mishap on your part. You've gone from a performance argument to a value one; and the 9900KS is curiously missing from your argument, all of a sudden.
It's a fluid discussion. Mid-range Zen2 parts available now are, like it or not, the 3900X since the EPYC chips are the top end. Once TR3 is released, 3900X will be low-middle. I moved the goalposts further away for my purposes, making it a tough game, by instead admitting that perhaps people thought I meant mid-range Ryzen chip. But even moving it down a little to the 3700X for the sake of fun, the 3700X is an incredible value proposition against the 9900K for multithreaded applications, rendering, encoding, etc. It doesn't match up as well against the KS, or the 9990XE.

If we compare what I consider the mid-range of the Zen2 lineup (3900X) to the mid-range of the Whatever Lake lineup (9900KS), the 3900X cleans up nicely against the 9900KS in multithreaded apps and sits within 10% of it in gaming applications.

What I'm saying is:
Gaming: 9900KS
Multithreaded: 3900X
Great value for both multithreaded and gaming: 3700X, which beats the 9900KS in some multithreaded apps
Great all-around chips: 9900K, 9900KS, 3900X, 3700X, 9700K, 9400F, 3600, and so on and so on

That's all I'm trying to say. No semantics. They're all great chips with their own use. If you value power efficiency maybe you don't go with a 9900KS. If you value top gaming results, you grab the 9900KS. If you are an investment banker, you wait for TR3.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
I don't blame you. But after I got cancer, I kind of didn;t care about the cost anymore.

First, I wish you well in remission. May you win the battle.

Second, this is peculiar to me, for two reasons.

1) according to the general public, the greatest threat to humanity is climate change. While cancer is awful, and should be eradicated, should it be at the expense of the planet? Genuine question, and that can be absolutely rhetorical.

2) How confident are we, that folding proteins holds the cure for cancer? I am skeptical. That also, can be rhetorical.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
5,056
410
126
it is the fastest gaming CPU, but realistically you will probably not notice even when comparing to CPUs half the cost

an impressive CPU overall, but given it's basically the 9900K from a year ago, and that now AMD is selling far more competitive CPUs, this is not all that exciting, seeing the lower clocked 3700x/3800x hanging in there and even beating it in all those heavy MT workloads is something,
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,668
14,676
136
First, I wish you well in remission. May you win the battle.

Second, this is peculiar to me, for two reasons.

1) according to the general public, the greatest threat to humanity is climate change. While cancer is awful, and should be eradicated, should it be at the expense of the planet? Genuine question, and that can be absolutely rhetorical.

2) How confident are we, that folding proteins holds the cure for cancer? I am skeptical. That also, can be rhetorical.
First, I don't want to derail this thread any more, this will be my last reply.

As for number one,. electricity is the one thing that can be generated from multiple sources that are earth and climate friendly, solar, wind, water. If we choose NOT to use these, its the communities fault. This is where we can improve.

As for number 2, its a fact that all cancer is caused by proteins MIS-folding. as all normal life and growth are caused by NORMAL folding.

Back to 9900ks preview please.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,737
11,053
136
So, I'd be happy seeing the power output used for: video encoding benchmarks, Blender Benchmarks or Maxon Cinema 4D.

Pretty sure CBR20 is tested in more than one review of the 9900KS. Here's one for you:


289W system power. Whew!

Anyway, these sort of benchmarks only matter for content creators. Pro content makers aren't using x570 or z390 boards and associated hardware.

Whaaaaaaaat

You have got to be kidding.

, run power viruses like Prime. This has gotten freaking ridiculous

You do realize that for over a decade that PC users on this forum (and elsewhere) have sworn by Prime95 as a stability tester and a harbinger of relative power consumption between platforms, right? Why is it now a "power virus"?

so where have you been when 1800x and 2700x eat more than their spec....

Right here. And my 1800x was a hog. I managed to get it to pull over 200W @ 4 GHz. My 3900X still hasn't gotten that high.

another the Stilt left post

I'll bet you don't even remember why he left.
 
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TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
3,983
739
126

180W of power , and not faster than a 65W 3700X ..
Well I guess it depends on how high the reviewer is...the 9900ks might be a good bit faster than the 50% more cores 3900x or it might be a good bit slower...on the same workload.
Yes it can go up to 180W it can even go higher than that,do you know why?Because it can hit 5Ghz and even more.


it is the fastest gaming CPU, but realistically you will probably not notice even when comparing to CPUs half the cost
And if you never use any DC apps you will also never notice the 3900x being any faster...than even a celeron,depending on what you do with your PC.
The 9900k/f/s is 10% faster even at 4Ghz and we do not know if and how much lower than that we can go on clocks before starting to lose any FPS,just because GPUs today are not fast enough doesn't mean that you $500 CPU is only good for today's GPUs you will probably want to keep it for a few generations and having a 20% clock overhead is a pretty good bet for that.
 
Reactions: Zucker2k

TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
3,983
739
126
You do realize that for over a decade that PC users on this forum (and elsewhere) have sworn by Prime95 as a stability tester and a harbinger of relative power consumption between platforms, right? Why is it now a "power virus"?
Show us one professional that uses any overclocked CPU a s a render/DC box,that's why.

The 9900ks is not made for people that are concerned about power usage.
And if you are you can still lock it to 127W TDP and it will only consume 127W.
Gamers nexus showed that from day one.
But then just go and get yourself a 9900 non-k or a ryzen or anything else.
 

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,810
1,159
136
The 9900ks is not made for people that are concerned about power usage.
And if you are you can still lock it to 127W TDP and it will only consume 127W.
Gamers nexus showed that from day one.
But then just go and get yourself a 9900 non-k or a ryzen or anything else.
And you'll get 4.7GHz ACT at 127w. An equivalent 8 core AMD Zen-2 cpu with 105w can barely do 4.6GHz sustained on one core (3800x). That's on 14nm which, I believe, is two nodes removed from 7nm, technically speaking. That's rather impressive.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,423
8,330
136
Well I guess it depends on how high the reviewer is...the 9900ks might be a good bit faster than the 50% more cores 3900x or it might be a good bit slower...on the same workload.
Yes it can go up to 180W it can even go higher than that,do you know why?Because it can hit 5Ghz and even more.

Your two screenshots aren't the same workload. x264 HD is using a very old version of the encoder and the Pass 1 benchmark shown is very lightly, if not entirely single threaded whereas the Handbrake benchmark scales well up to probably about 10 - 12 threads for 1080p encode.
 

rainy

Senior member
Jul 17, 2013
507
427
136
And you'll get 4.7GHz ACT at 127w. An equivalent 8 core AMD Zen-2 cpu with 105w can barely do 4.6GHz sustained on one core (3800x). That's on 14nm which, I believe, is two nodes removed from 7nm, technically speaking. That's rather impressive.

Quite obviously, you're missing an important fact: TSMC had started volume production of 7nm in the second half of April 2018, when in the case of Intel 14nm it happened over 5 years ago.
They had a plenty of time to tweak this process to the maximum.
 

Ajay

Lifer
Jan 8, 2001
15,783
7,995
136
Whaaaaaaaat

You have got to be kidding.

Yeah, lost my mind I suppose.

You do realize that for over a decade that PC users on this forum (and elsewhere) have sworn by Prime95 as a stability tester and a harbinger of relative power consumption between platforms, right? Why is it now a "power virus"?

I've used OCCT for many years and I don't have a cpu with AVX (yes, it's old).
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,737
11,053
136
Show us one professional that uses any overclocked CPU a s a render/DC box,that's why.

Nobody said anything about overclocked CPUs. You use Prime95 or similar on stock CPUs, too. That's the baseline. Actually my old routine was Prime95, Linpack, and y-cruncher. Now I've added others and removed linpack because getting it to behave corrently on AMD CPUs can be a chore.

The 9900ks is not made for people that are concerned about power usage.

Apparently it is made only for people who are concerned about 1080p gaming. Which is a shame, since the 9900k, when it came out, was the fastest non-HEDT desktop CPU in everything (by at least a hair, if not a wide margin). 9900KS? Not even close. Nice attempted deception on the x264 1st Pass bench though!

I've used OCCT for many years and I don't have a cpu with AVX (yes, it's old).

OCCT uses Linpack if I'm not mistaken. That's just as heavy as Prime95 SmallFFTs, if not moreso.
 

lobz

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2017
2,057
2,856
136
First, I wish you well in remission. May you win the battle.

Second, this is peculiar to me, for two reasons.

1) according to the general public, the greatest threat to humanity is climate change. While cancer is awful, and should be eradicated, should it be at the expense of the planet? Genuine question, and that can be absolutely rhetorical.

2) How confident are we, that folding proteins holds the cure for cancer? I am skeptical. That also, can be rhetorical.
I state this to you non-rhetorically: using power for computing has nothing to do with climate change.
 

lobz

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2017
2,057
2,856
136
And you'll get 4.7GHz ACT at 127w. An equivalent 8 core AMD Zen-2 cpu with 105w can barely do 4.6GHz sustained on one core (3800x). That's on 14nm which, I believe, is two nodes removed from 7nm, technically speaking. That's rather impressive.
That's definitely not true for a workload that ummm... I don't know, maybe actually uses the processor?
 
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Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,753
3,973
136
That's definitely not true for a workload that ummm... I don't know, maybe actually uses the processor?

I don't get why some people obsess over clock speed. You could have a high clocking P4 or BD, but who cares? The 3700X is very much competitive with the 9900k. And it uses far less power. A 3800X would beat it even more in most tests. About the only thing the 9900k has going for it is gaming. If all you are doing is gaming, you'd be better off with a 9700k. The 3700X/3800X handles most tasks better. As it should, it is much newer than Skylake. But that's all we have until we see Ice Lake on desktop.
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,729
1,300
136
I don't get why some people obsess over clock speed. You could have a high clocking P4 or BD, but who cares? The 3700X is very much competitive with the 9900k. And it uses far less power. A 3800X would beat it even more in most tests. About the only thing the 9900k has going for it is gaming. If all you are doing is gaming, you'd be better off with a 9700k. The 3700X/3800X handles most tasks better. As it should, it is much newer than Skylake. But that's all we have until we see Ice Lake on desktop.
Holy crap, the old P4 argument again. Dont you guys ever get tired of digging up that red herring? Intel has at least equal IPC in gaming to AMD, plenty of cores, so clockspeed certainly does matter.
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,729
1,300
136
Quite obviously, you're missing an important fact: TSMC had started volume production of 7nm in the second half of April 2018, when in the case of Intel 14nm it happened over 5 years ago.
They had a plenty of time to tweak this process to the maximum.
So what? Clockspeed "is what it is" however it was obtained. Do you thing a game has some code in it that says "Oh, that is 14nm, an old process, I am going to downclock it to match Ryzen"?
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
25,668
14,676
136
So what? Clockspeed "is what it is" however it was obtained. Do you thing a game has some code in it that says "Oh, that is 14nm, an old process, I am going to downclock it to match Ryzen"?
It wins by a few %, like 3. But for the same money, you can have 12 cores, not 8, and for some things that does make a noticeable difference. And there is no way it will do what you said using 127 watts.
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,753
3,973
136
Holy crap, the old P4 argument again. Dont you guys ever get tired of digging up that red herring? Intel has at least equal IPC in gaming to AMD, plenty of cores, so clockspeed certainly does matter.

I included Faildozer too. Equal opportunity offender . It's not a red herring at all. Clock speed means nothing by itself. What you are getting so pissy about is that I am calling Zen more well rounded because it does everything well. You just want to focus on gaming. Even then, there are times when AMD ties or wins. For just about anything else, AMD wins. You do realize that this gaming advantage may very well go away when Intel inevitably moves to a non-inclusive L3 with a mesh rather than a ring? Just look at Skylake-X for reference.

I certainly don't want Intel to keep tripping up forever. We all see what happens when there is a pseudo monopoly. AMD is having that feeling already. Otherwise we would have B550 chipsets by now with PCIe 4. Rumor is PCIe 4 will only be on x570. So don't think I'm giving Intel a hard time because I'm biased.

What I am really tired of hearing though, is how Intel still wins at gaming at 1080p with a 2080. It gets super old. I wasn't here trying to defend AMD during the BD days saying how they were still great for VM's, because they weren't a good product. At this point Skylake just isn't that good.

I'll also add that when Intel was beating AMD in these same types of application benchmarks, nobody seemed to dismiss them. It was just more proof of Intel being on top. Now it's gotten so bad that Intel is trying to redefine what is a "real world" benchmark. It's pathetic honestly. Shut up and put out a better product. Don't try to change the game.
 
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