Trump NY Criminal Trial

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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,538
5,274
136
So JD50 quoted the relevant post. Seems like you were very comfortable reaching conclusions based on far less complete information in that case. Can you explain the difference?

I assume that was a case I had been following.
Kind of telling that you had to go back 8 years to find something, and some pretty good sleuthing on your part. Which leads me to ask, why is this so important to you?
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,923
18,221
146
I assume that was a case I had been following.
Kind of telling that you had to go back 8 years to find something, and some pretty good sleuthing on your part. Which leads me to ask, why is this so important to you?

"Hey guys, why does my obvious bias even matter anyways? Can't a guy pretend to be a moderate anymore? Maybe I should block some more of you!"
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,557
49,011
136
I assume that was a case I had been following.
Kind of telling that you had to go back 8 years to find something, and some pretty good sleuthing on your part. Which leads me to ask, why is this so important to you?
I didn’t do any sleuthing - it was quoted to me. I’m sure I can find plenty of other cases though.

As for why it’s ‘important’ to me it’s mostly that we both know you’re not being entirely forthcoming here.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,628
6,177
126
I assume that was a case I had been following.
Kind of telling that you had to go back 8 years to find something, and some pretty good sleuthing on your part. Which leads me to ask, why is this so important to you?
My guess is that if it were only you they believe can support a Republican party lead by an obvious fascist authoritarian Mafia like criminal, they wouldn’t care, but what they see in you they see in millions of other Americans and that means Trump might get re-elected and turn the country into more of a fascist state than it already is.

Your kind terrifies them. In my opinion fskimospy respects the power of logic and facts and presents them to you on tat plane. What I try to tell you is that the reason that his arguments are difficult for you is because you have confused real truth with truth you were conditioned to substitute for it.

That is what happened to me. I had to believe there is a good because nothing could be more obvious. We have sensory perception that tells us some things hurt and some things feel good. But we can be conditioned as children to believe that some things are evil that are good and some things that are good are evil. Once that happens we are fucked. We now have sacred cows that if we abandon we feel the truth there is a good dies with them.

I am here to tell you that is what happened to me. I lost everything I held sacred and fell into misery, hopelessness, and despair. Then I had an experience that left me knowing at last what is left after losing everything that can be taken. There is only love. Have no fear. Let go. To be empty within is to become a mirror in which god is reflected, who you where born to be.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,253
4,535
136
Lol orange monkey defender lawyers calling for the judge to end the trial after todays testimony about Cohen’s 90 second call with Schiller
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,301
15,083
136
Because I haven't been following the case. I catch a little bit here and a little bit on the far right forums, and as expected they proclaim with hard facts that Trump is innocent, just as vehemently as you fellows proclaim his guilt.

Btw, I don't see danks posts, he's on my do not disturb list. I can anyone that isn't civil. If someone can't express an opinion without insults and anger they have nothing worth saying.

Classic greenman. Never fully informed but informed enough to know he’s not wrong and everyone who doesn’t agree with him are only doing it because they are super biased. It’s a nice piece of circular logic that protects the bubble he thinks he’s not living in.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,772
29,523
146
I assume that was a case I had been following.
Kind of telling that you had to go back 8 years to find something, and some pretty good sleuthing on your part. Which leads me to ask, why is this so important to you?

It's because everyone knows that you are profoundly dishonest and you pretend that you aren't. Better yet, you act incredulous every time your recorded history of dishonestly is thrown back at you.

Why are you this way?

Yes, I know you have me blocked. You really hate it when people tell you exactly who you are. Denial seems to be the only way you are able to live with yourself.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,538
5,274
136
My guess is that if it were only you they believe can support a Republican party lead by an obvious fascist authoritarian Mafia like criminal, they wouldn’t care, but what they see in you they see in millions of other Americans and that means Trump might get re-elected and turn the country into more of a fascist state than it already is.

Your kind terrifies them. In my opinion fskimospy respects the power of logic and facts and presents them to you on tat plane. What I try to tell you is that the reason that his arguments are difficult for you is because you have confused real truth with truth you were conditioned to substitute for it.

That is what happened to me. I had to believe there is a good because nothing could be more obvious. We have sensory perception that tells us some things hurt and some things feel good. But we can be conditioned as children to believe that some things are evil that are good and some things that are good are evil. Once that happens we are fucked. We now have sacred cows that if we abandon we feel the truth there is a good dies with them.

I am here to tell you that is what happened to me. I lost everything I held sacred and fell into misery, hopelessness, and despair. Then I had an experience that left me knowing at last what is left after losing everything that can be taken. There is only love. Have no fear. Let go. To be empty within is to become a mirror in which god is reflected, who you where born to be.
Interesting take on the subject, but I have to disagree with most of it. It really is just simple tribalism, and the need for vindication. In the end I'm going to be disappointed no mater which of the dismal choices wins, which is probably why I haven't paid much attention to either.
 

APU_Fusion

Senior member
Dec 16, 2013
912
1,398
136
Interesting take on the subject, but I have to disagree with most of it. It really is just simple tribalism, and the need for vindication. In the end I'm going to be disappointed no mater which of the dismal choices wins, which is probably why I haven't paid much attention to either.
Liar. Complete and utter liar. Go suck the orange cream out of the orange turd your feckless magat troll. You don’t fool anyone. You will only be disappointed if your orange turd loses. Dismal choices? 😂 pathetic
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,557
49,011
136
Interesting take on the subject, but I have to disagree with most of it. It really is just simple tribalism, and the need for vindication. In the end I'm going to be disappointed no mater which of the dismal choices wins, which is probably why I haven't paid much attention to either.
Was it tribalism when you said you believed Clinton to be guilty?
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,534
7,787
136
For the last time to people who seem to know what's going on but really don't know what's going on ... It’s the cover up of the cover up. It’s not that Trump had sex with Daniels and it’s not that he paid her $130,000 for her silence - it’s that he was involved in creating fraudulent records to hide the purpose of the payment.

This document is the bank’s bank statement showing the $130,000 withdrawal from Cohen’s account, reflecting the payment to Stormy’s lawyer. The handwriting at the bottom left is Weissslberg’s (authenticated by some of the Trump org employees), and includes in chicken scratch the calculation of the total of $420,000, over 12 months. Cohen got $35,000 per month from Trump. (The handwriting at the bottom right is Cohen’s)


And ... Nothing the defense has presented is sufficient to overcome the evidence presented by the prosecution.

If you take the position that Cohen did it of his own accord, as the defense has asserted, it would seem that you are confronted with some questions.

For being such a groveling man, who is presumably motivated by jealousy of trump, why wouldn't he have told Trump what he did? How is he advancing his position by keeping it secret from Donald?

And, two, why did Trump repay him? The DA has introduced that bank statement that confirmed the wire to Daniels, on which Weisselberg wrote up a repayment (adding in a bonus, other fees and a cushion for taxes). This calculation exactly matches the repayments to Cohen. This isn’t Cohen’s salary working for the Trump Org, and he isn’t working for Trump in Washington. What are the checks for?

At the end of the day, the most logical conclusion is that, yes, Cohen was a dirt bag and a liar, but he did it in service to Trump. And, yes, he’s bitter and biased against Trump, because he went to jail for him while Trump did nothing, but that just became the motivation to disclose the dirty tricks he pulled on Trump’s behalf.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,253
4,535
136
Good summary above. But defense going to lay everything on that 90 second call with Schiller. No way he could have had the time to discuss the coverup in 90 seconds after complaining about the 14 year old prank calls. As many pundits demonstrated, see I just spoke for 90 seconds. Look at how much I was able to say. But it only takes one juror
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,534
7,787
136
Interesting take on the subject, but I have to disagree with most of it. It really is just simple tribalism, and the need for vindication. In the end I'm going to be disappointed no mater which of the dismal choices wins, which is probably why I haven't paid much attention to either.

Trump is being prosecuted because there is enough evidence to convince multiple grand juries that there is a reasonable probability that he has committed multiple crimes.

There should be no literal “Get out of Jail” card just because he’s running for President. If you have bought into the conspiracy from too much right-wing media that the legal system is being used to circumvent electoral process.... Even if convicted, Trump can still run for president. There’s even a historic precedent. It’s not stopping him from running for office. Trump is a perpetual victim and all he seems to know how to do is whine. I guess some people find that compelling but personally I don’t understand why anyone would follow a person who claims to be so powerless and being ruled by emotion.

It's amazing these people can get sucked down so many rabbit holes. Biden is weak, old and stupid, BUT ...He can arrange several show trials for his opponent. Political interference all the way because while Trump is innocent, it’s just that easy to make him look guilty for things he admits on TV that he has done that are against the law except unless HE does them. Judges answer to their clerks and daughters and mysterious Democratic operatives working in the shadows. Everything is rigged and Donald J. Trump is the last victimized honest man on earth. For the documents case alone he should be imprisoned at a CIA black site. For threatening the families of various court officials repeatedly he should be held.

I don’t understand why the Republicans would even think about running a candidate like Trump unless it is some secret plot to use the 25th Amendment on him once he is in office. Republicans already got what they needed out of him. They would be way better off to dump his ass, run a candidate who actually has some ideas and policies (beyond putting people he deems undesirable in cages) and who can speak plain English without descending into word salad delivered in a tone of baby talk. But let’s see what he looks like six months from now. Six more months of him plummeting from that cognitive cliff that he has already gone over should make it a lot more clear to every concerned voter that he does not pack the gear to serve as POTUS, now or ever.
 

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,534
7,787
136
If anything .... Rather than Trump being railroaded by the justice system ... He is being coddled by a system that was not built to handle the wanton disregard for the rule of law of a current/former President. There are numerous examples of how he is being treated differently already, and why he will most likely be treated differently again. It’s decidedly NOT because of Joe Biden or that Trump is some kind of mastermind - it’s because our system is not built to punish him due to his (infuriating) status as ex-president and current GOP front-runner.

In all honesty, by the way things are going, and how the justice system is coddling him. Along with Trump possibly avoiding incarceration because he’ll be too mentally and/or physically deteriorated to be imprisoned by the time rolls around for him to report. If convicted in this case...I can see Mercan sentencing him to a few weeks or a maybe a month in some white collar prison so he can’t be accused of making it completely impossible for Trump to campaign or do what someone does when they win or lose (In Trumps case lose) a presidential election.

This may not resonate to some people here, but ... If Trump ever goes to actual jail for more than a week or two, I will eat all of the grass in my front yard while making lawnmower sounds.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,430
1,622
136
Trump is being prosecuted because there is enough evidence to convince multiple grand juries that there is a reasonable probability that he has committed multiple crimes.

There should be no literal “Get out of Jail” card just because he’s running for President. If you have bought into the conspiracy from too much right-wing media that the legal system is being used to circumvent electoral process.... Even if convicted, Trump can still run for president. There’s even a historic precedent. It’s not stopping him from running for office. Trump is a perpetual victim and all he seems to know how to do is whine. I guess some people find that compelling but personally I don’t understand why anyone would follow a person who claims to be so powerless and being ruled by emotion.

It's amazing these people can get sucked down so many rabbit holes. Biden is weak, old and stupid, BUT ...He can arrange several show trials for his opponent. Political interference all the way because while Trump is innocent, it’s just that easy to make him look guilty for things he admits on TV that he has done that are against the law except unless HE does them. Judges answer to their clerks and daughters and mysterious Democratic operatives working in the shadows. Everything is rigged and Donald J. Trump is the last victimized honest man on earth. For the documents case alone he should be imprisoned at a CIA black site. For threatening the families of various court officials repeatedly he should be held.

I don’t understand why the Republicans would even think about running a candidate like Trump unless it is some secret plot to use the 25th Amendment on him once he is in office. Republicans already got what they needed out of him. They would be way better off to dump his ass, run a candidate who actually has some ideas and policies (beyond putting people he deems undesirable in cages) and who can speak plain English without descending into word salad delivered in a tone of baby talk. But let’s see what he looks like six months from now. Six more months of him plummeting from that cognitive cliff that he has already gone over should make it a lot more clear to every concerned voter that he does not pack the gear to serve as POTUS, now or ever.

The Prosecutor also has to prove intent. That Trump knew that his arraignment with Cohen violated campaign finance laws. I think the prosecutor has more than proven that Trump falsified business records which is a misdemeanor with what has been presented to the jury. The connection that he knowingly violated campaign finance laws when he used his personal money to send those payments in my opinion hasn't been proven in court.(Criminal conspiracy for the election) It will be interesting to see if the jury is presented with the possibility of convicting on the misdemeanor or if the Defense and Prosecutor go with only keeping the felony count when instructions are presented to the jury(Judge could decide to also add the lesser charges). Personally I think Trump is guilty of all of it but with what has been presented in court, I am not sure if the prosecutor made enough of a case for the Criminal conspiracy charge to stick, based on the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt. Out of all the criminal cases against Trump, I always viewed this as the weakest case. So far with what has been presented in court, my view hasn't changed.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,628
6,177
126
Interesting take on the subject, but I have to disagree with most of it. It really is just simple tribalism, and the need for vindication. In the end I'm going to be disappointed no mater which of the dismal choices wins, which is probably why I haven't paid much attention to either.
Yes, I agree but you seem to hold a different opinion on the appropriateness of that. I belong to a tribe of people that brought forth on the continent a nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the principle that all men are created equal and that they be subject to the rule of law and not mob vengeance of the capricious judgment of kings. In this way and in this way only, via the judgment of ones peers, shall vindication for criminal actions be met out. You seem to have fallen victim to some form of skepticism as to the appropriateness of that. As I have told you many times, I believe that the very fine value that detests haste of judgment owing to suspected bias behind it must be tempered by wisdom, the recognition that it isn't only hatred that impels a wish to see justice done. Under oppression and without resistance to it life becomes intolerable.

Trial by jury is how my tribe does things.

One of the sure signs of self hate in my opinion is projection of contempt for oneself as suspicion of the motivation of others.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,444
12,573
146
The Prosecutor also has to prove intent. That Trump knew that his arraignment with Cohen violated campaign finance laws. I think the prosecutor has more than proven that Trump falsified business records which is a misdemeanor with what has been presented to the jury. The connection that he knowingly violated campaign finance laws when he used his personal money to send those payments in my opinion hasn't been proven in court.(Criminal conspiracy for the election) It will be interesting to see if the jury is presented with the possibility of convicting on the misdemeanor or if the Defense and Prosecutor go with only keeping the felony count when instructions are presented to the jury(Judge could decide to also add the lesser charges). Personally I think Trump is guilty of all of it but with what has been presented in court, I am not sure if the prosecutor made enough of a case for the Criminal conspiracy charge to stick, based on the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt. Out of all the criminal cases against Trump, I always viewed this as the weakest case. So far with what has been presented in court, my view hasn't changed.
Does it have to be proven that he knew he was specifically running afoul of campaign finance laws, or just that he knew he was using his own money?

If I knowingly speed in a construction zone, is it necessary to prove I knew I was in a construction zone to fine/charge me as such? Or just that I knew I was speeding?
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,430
1,622
136
Does it have to be proven that he knew he was specifically running afoul of campaign finance laws, or just that he knew he was using his own money?

If I knowingly speed in a construction zone, is it necessary to prove I knew I was in a construction zone to fine/charge me as such? Or just that I knew I was speeding?

From what I understand the Prosecutor will have to prove criminal intent for him violating campaign finance laws when he used his own money to pay off Cohen who paid off the Daniels. The elevating of the charges to Felony level means that he was engaged in a criminal conspiracy to break the law while trying to win the 2016 Presidential election. I am not a lawyer but this is how I understand how the New York DA to got felony charges out of this. This trial might go to the jury by the end of this week so it will be interesting to me what the jury instructions will be.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
Does it have to be proven that he knew he was specifically running afoul of campaign finance laws, or just that he knew he was using his own money?

If I knowingly speed in a construction zone, is it necessary to prove I knew I was in a construction zone to fine/charge me as such? Or just that I knew I was speeding?

The statute reads:
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

So they'd have to prove his intent was to commit another crime (campaign finance violation). Things get hairy though as that doesn't necessarily mean he would have to know that concealing the payments to aid his campaign in itself was illegal, but they do have to prove it was his intent.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,744
8,275
136
It has to be with intent to commit another crime. The prosecution does NOT have to prove that other crime though.
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,253
4,535
136
Lol stupid former lawyer but still orange monkey butt kisser. Anchor asks wouldn’t it have been easier and no legal problem if he just paid the $150k directly instead of paying back $420k? Dumb lawyer, Well it proves Cohen is a crook!!!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,557
49,011
136
Lol stupid former lawyer but still orange monkey butt kisser. Anchor asks wouldn’t it have been easier and no legal problem if he just paid the $150k directly instead of paying back $420k? Dumb lawyer, Well it proves Cohen is a crook!!!
Yes, it would have been easier and legal had he just paid the $150k - of course the entire reason he decided to commit a crime instead was because he (correctly) figured it would have cost him the election.

I guess we'll find out next week most likely but seems like Trump is most likely cooked here.
 
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eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,253
4,535
136
Context for those of us not following the absolute minute-by-minute details of the case?
Cohen made a call to Schiller so he could talk to the orange monkey to say it’s been handled. Defence pointed out Cohen was dealing with a 14 year old prank calling him and there was a text just before, call me now. So they say a 90 second call isn’t long enough to bitch about the prank call and then talk about the hush money.

Yup this is how they plan to prove he’s innocent. Cohen is a liar!!!
 
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