Israel: We Are At War

[raildogg]

Very interesting that after Israel's illegal attack on Iran's consulate in Syria, the US, UK and France have opposed to a resolution that would have condemned that attack. So going forward, will US and the Western countries be OK if embassies are attacked? What sort of reaction is this?

This is further proof that the US has no rules for Israel that it sets for rest of the world. Basically, Israel has no rules to abide by while everyone does.

"Iran has accused Israel of violating the founding UN Charter, international law, and also cited several conventions.

The 1961 Vienna Convention governing diplomatic relations and 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations define premises as buildings, parts of buildings and land - regardless of ownership - used for the purposes of the diplomatic or consular mission, including the head of the diplomatic mission.

Those conventions state that the diplomatic or consular premises “shall be inviolable.” But they also say the premises should “not be used in any manner incompatible” with the diplomatic and consular functions.

Iran also cited the 1973 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes Against Internationally Protected Persons, including Diplomatic Agents - suggesting those killed were covered by these rules."

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2024/04/04/us-uk-france-block-un-condemnation-of-attack-on-iran-s-embassy-in-syria

 

[amenx]

I guess Israel does not want the full truth to get out.

U.N. commission accuses Israel of obstructing Oct. 7 probe

GENEVA, April 16 (Reuters) - A U.N.-mandated commission of inquiry that probes violations of international human rights law on Tuesday accused Israel of obstructing its efforts to collect evidence from the victims of the attack by Hamas in southern Israel on Oct. 7.

"So far as the government of Israel is concerned, we have not only seen a lack of cooperation, but active obstruction of our efforts to receive evidence from Israeli witnesses and victims to the events that occurred in southern Israel," said Chris Sidoti, one of three members of a commission of inquiry into abuses committed in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories...

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-commission-accuses-israel-obstructing-oct-7-probe-2024-04-16/

 

[igor_kavinski]

I guess Israel does not want the full truth to get out.

U.N. commission accuses Israel of obstructing Oct. 7 probe

At least the truth is out for everyone to know now.

I bet if it were feasible and Israel had the power to do it, they would deport all non-Jewish/non-Israelites to Mars or the moon or even orbital worker colonies and the World would be theirs, just as some Jewish Rabbi long, long ago wrote in their Torah.

 

[amenx]

At least the truth is out for everyone to know now.

I bet if it were feasible and Israel had the power to do it, they would deport all non-Jewish/non-Israelites to Mars or the moon or even orbital worker colonies and the World would be theirs, just as some Jewish Rabbi long, long ago wrote in their Torah.

Well that is their ultimate goal. Just fear of world opinion holding them back. Netanyahu himself when a junior official in the govt back in 1989 had suggessted to his superiors that Israel should do that while the worlds attention was on the Tian Men massacre in China where pro-democracy protests were violently suppressed. He was turned down by his superiors.

 

[amenx]

Amazing... US makes failed bid for Iran to allow 'symbolic strike' by Israel

An Iranian military security official has revealed exclusively to The Cradle that the US contacted the Islamic Republic, asking the nation to allow Israel "a symbolic strike to save face” following Iran's retaliatory drone and missile barrage this weekend.

“Iran has received messages from mediators to let the regime do a symbolic strike to save face and asked Iran not to retaliate,” the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, revealed to The Cradle.
He added that Tehran “outright rejected” the proposal, delivered by mediators, and reiterated warnings that any Israeli attack on Iranian soil would be met with a decisive and immediate response...

EXCLUSIVE: US makes failed bid for Iran to allow 'symbolic strike' by Israel

Washington used diplomatic backchannels to ask Tehran not to retaliate to an Israeli strike, which would allow Tel Aviv to 'save face' following the massive retaliatory attack launched by Iran

thecradle.co

 

[fskimospy]

Very interesting that after Israel's illegal attack on Iran's consulate in Syria, the US, UK and France have opposed to a resolution that would have condemned that attack. So going forward, will US and the Western countries be OK if embassies are attacked? What sort of reaction is this?

This is further proof that the US has no rules for Israel that it sets for rest of the world. Basically, Israel has no rules to abide by while everyone does.

"Iran has accused Israel of violating the founding UN Charter, international law, and also cited several conventions.

The 1961 Vienna Convention governing diplomatic relations and 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations define premises as buildings, parts of buildings and land - regardless of ownership - used for the purposes of the diplomatic or consular mission, including the head of the diplomatic mission.

Those conventions state that the diplomatic or consular premises “shall be inviolable.” But they also say the premises should “not be used in any manner incompatible” with the diplomatic and consular functions.

Iran also cited the 1973 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes Against Internationally Protected Persons, including Diplomatic Agents - suggesting those killed were covered by these rules."

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2024/04/04/us-uk-france-block-un-condemnation-of-attack-on-iran-s-embassy-in-syria

Considering your apologism for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine that violates all the same rules it’s pretty galling for you to accuse others of having inconsistent principles.

You’re a hypocrite who is blinded by anti-western propaganda.

 

[Jaskalas]

Meanwhile, in Ukraine, Russia has not gone to this extent in any way and one reason is that they view Ukrainians as fellow Slavs, as fellow Orthodox Christians and as former countrymen. No intent to commit genocide has been found

Is that what the Kremlin says in-between double tapping civilian targets in cities?
Glide bombs with 15m craters, the most warm, lovely, and brotherly of Slavic gifts, eh?

@raildogg is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[raildogg]

Sure, the Ukraine supporters on this forum, who are repeating Western talking points 24/7 will always have a counterpoint. They cannot be reasoned with so I will not try too much further. They see things as purely black and white, per Western media talking points. Same Western media talking points are sheltering Israel, who actually is committing an ethnic cleansing operation. So much for Western moral superiority, which none is left.

Back to the discussion at hand:

Oh look, the American regime that supports Israel's genocide seems to not be representing their people very well it seems:

Mediterranean Man

🇺🇸🇵🇸 A CBS Poll shows that only a third of Americans approve of Biden's handling of the war between Israel and Hamas. @medmannews

t.me

Even Republican voters might be somewhat opposed to Israel's genocide? If so, that is a big turn of events for Israel, who has had full US support, especially of Republicans, for many decades.

 

[raildogg]

CNN is now officially a mouthpiece for Israel and Zionist talking points? These guys Jake Tapper and Wolf Blitzer, both known Zionists, are bringing on these anti-Iran people who are all saying the same crap - Israel has a right to respond, blah blah.

Never do they mention years of Israeli aggression towards Iran by killing its officials, some at the top, along with nuclear scientists and doing all kinds of stuff inside Iran. They just make it sound like Iran one day said we are going to attack Israel by giving Israel and America hours of warning, and then we will launch slow moving drones and cruise missiles. This is the US media for you.

And the anti-Palestinian bias in the US is now well known.

A secret internal ‘NYTimes’ memo reveals the paper’s anti-Palestinian bias is even worse than we thought

The shocking revelation of the New York Times’s offensive internal style guide on language it will not permit in its Palestine reporting should prompt a broad examination of the paper’s longtime bias.

mondoweiss.net

A secret internal ‘NYTimes’ memo reveals the paper’s anti-Palestinian bias is even worse than we thought​

• Arguably the worst example of bias is the Times’s directive that its reports should “avoid” using the phrase “occupied territory” when describing Palestinian land.
• But what about West Bank Palestine? How can the Times pretend that Israel’s permanent military forces, there since June 1967, do not constitute an “occupation?” Israel’s military and police checkpoints and the fact that Israel’s military law is supreme — what is this if not an “occupation?”
• Just as offensive is the internal Times memo’s instruction that reporters should not use the word Palestine “except in very rare cases.” This is another jaw dropper. Several million people call themselves “Palestinians,” and Palestine is represented at the United Nations. The United States claims that it still favors a two-state solution; how can you describe the second state without saying “Palestine?”
• The Times also told its staff not to use the expression “refugee camps” to describe certain areas in Gaza.
• But some U.S. mainstream bias is so comprehensive and has gone on for so long that it is still passing unnoticed. Let’s take the fact that the 670,000 Jewish Israelis who have moved permanently into occupied West Bank Palestine since 1967 are universally called “settlers,” instead of “colonists,” and the places where they now live are called “settlements.” The Times memo didn’t even have to order this usage; it just happens automatically.
• Whoever first chose the word “settlers” back in the 1970s deserves a gold medal for dishonest euphemism. “Settlers” gives the impression of hardy pioneers who are entering a land that is nearly empty, a more up-to-date version of the original Zionist expression: “a people without land for a land without people.” The truth is, of course, different; West Bank Palestine is characterized by Israeli military checkpoints, segregated roads for Jews only — and, in recent months, murderous pogroms carried out by settlers/colonists with the complicity of the Israeli army. You regularly read accounts by people who say that a single visit to the occupied West Bank was so shocking that they had to revise their previous views.

Very shocking to see this in America, where the media is so heavily biased against Palestinians. This shapes public's opinions about the situation but despite the media's intentions, many Americans seem to be waking up from what I can tell. Even very pro-Israel Republicans are not as supportive as before, though still more than Democrats. And of course the US government is extremely pro-Israel but that is not new, that is the US policy since Israel's founding - to blindly support Israel despite any crime that state commits.

 

[Thunder 57]

At least the truth is out for everyone to know now.

I bet if it were feasible and Israel had the power to do it, they would deport all non-Jewish/non-Israelites to Mars or the moon or even orbital worker colonies and the World would be theirs, just as some Jewish Rabbi long, long ago wrote in their Torah.

Who else is going to maintain the jewish space laser?

 

[emperus]

Considering your apologism for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine that violates all the same rules it’s pretty galling for you to accuse others of having inconsistent principles.

You’re a hypocrite who is blinded by anti-western propaganda.

Why has US, UK and France opposed the resolution?
I want to say he's not wrong here, but I want to leave open the door that there is something in the resolution I may not be aware of.

 

[blankslate]

The Talks That Could Have Ended the War in Ukraine

A hidden history of diplomacy that came up short—but holds lessons for future negotiations.

www.foreignaffairs.com

There were peace talks in early 2022 to end Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
This is a recent article on the subject which seems at a quick glance very neutral in tone.

too bad it failed hundreds of thousands of lives (by some estimates) would have been saved.

with all the teeth gnashing over the supposed similarities of both conflicts it is important to remember that few officials if any on any side of the Ukraine/Russia hostilities has gone so far in terms of dehumanizing language than Israeli government officials have when speaking of the Palestinians...

If anyone continues to deny that....

I remind you that her name was Hind Rajab



__________________

 

[fskimospy]

Why has US, UK and France opposed the resolution?
I want to say he's not wrong here, but I want to leave open the door that there is something in the resolution I may not be aware of.

The pretty obvious answer is that they are terrible.

Not sure what the confusion is here.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The pretty obvious answer is that they are terrible.

My conspiracy theory is that all the politicians in these countries are held by the balls by Jewish/Israeli bankers and if they even think of going against Israel, they won't be able to deal with the consequences of their actions in their personal lives.

 

[Shervan360]

the prime minister is dragging out the war to prevent the collapse of his fragile right-wing coalition and extend his time in office. By this analysis, he has made a domestic calculus that ignores both the growing global anger about the bloodshed — including from Israel’s most powerful ally, President Biden, which erupted into full view on Thursday — and the rising anger from the families of Israeli hostages who seek their relatives’ immediate release.

After 6 Months of War, Some Israelis Ask: Is Netanyahu Dragging It Out?

Despite growing pressure from President Biden, the Israeli prime minister appears in no rush to end the war in Gaza. Some think he has political reasons for extending the stasis.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Shervan360]

Biden is weak and cannot lead. No one takes him seriously.

 

[amenx]

Similar to Trump, Netanyahu needs to stay in office to avoid criminal prosecution that would ultimately have him in jail. He and his RW govt were passing laws trying to shield him from prosecution. As well as other measures deemed by some as a subversion of democracy.

The corruption and autocracy nexus: The case of "King Bibi" | Brookings

Benjamin Netanyahu may not have wished it, but his appearance at the Summit for Democracy highlighted how corruption drives democratic backsliding and also mobilizes concerned citizens to speak out to protect democratic values.

www.brookings.edu

 

[dank69]

Biden is weak and cannot lead. No one takes him seriously.

That's why I vote Trump, every time!

 

[fskimospy]

Sure, the Ukraine supporters on this forum, who are repeating Western talking points 24/7 will always have a counterpoint. They cannot be reasoned with so I will not try too much further. They see things as purely black and white, per Western media talking points. Same Western media talking points are sheltering Israel, who actually is committing an ethnic cleansing operation. So much for Western moral superiority, which none is left.

Back to the discussion at hand:

Oh look, the American regime that supports Israel's genocide seems to not be representing their people very well it seems:

Mediterranean Man

🇺🇸🇵🇸 A CBS Poll shows that only a third of Americans approve of Biden's handling of the war between Israel and Hamas. @medmannews

t.me

Even Republican voters might be somewhat opposed to Israel's genocide? If so, that is a big turn of events for Israel, who has had full US support, especially of Republicans, for many decades.

So in other words you have no interest in addressing your obvious hypocrisy.

Sad that you’re so blinded by propaganda. Some people just can’t be reached by reality though.

 

[Stokely]

LOL on anyone thinking Trump v2 is going to be better for the Palestinians than Biden. Or better for any non-white, non-Christians. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. When you've got "mild conservatism" vs "Christian theocracy" staring at you, making the logical choice isn't difficult. Logic has no say though, it's all emotion.

 

[Shervan360]

Look at the Middle East. Who benefits from Israel-Hamas or Israel-Iran war? China and Russia.
China and Russia laugh at America and Europe.

Do you see those in Europe and America who will lead and solve this problem? Biden? Macron? Or Sunak?No, they are weak and cannot.

 

[Moonbeam]

So in other words you have no interest in addressing your obvious hypocrisy.

Sad that you’re so blinded by propaganda. Some people just can’t be reached by reality though.

Charity at its finest.

If what I say about the condemnatory nature of early childhood experience and nature of ego as a required compensatory mechanism to survive it is true, then not only is his hypocrisy not obvious to him, it is also completely invisible. The depth to which we were made to feel depraved, the shame and the hurt of that experience, makes it nearly impossible for people to remember that they have been through and the last thing they would ever do. Any admission of fault to the ego is an existential threat. This, I believe, is why people can't be reached.

The ego is founded on the belief in numerous unexamined sacred cows that must not be sullied. They keep the truth out but by way of putting us in prison.

 

[Stokely]

Again the choice is Biden or Trump here. Whatever opposition to Israel Biden will provide, Trump will provide less (if not actually joining in the conflict on the side of Israel).

I'd say Biden is not "weak" as much as he wants to keep the Jewish vote. He's in a very tough spot and if Trump is smart he'll keep away from the whole issue as much as possible and let morons blame Biden for it all.

 

[Pens1566]

Look at the Middle East. Who benefits from Israel-Hamas or Israel-Iran war? China and Russia.
China and Russia laugh at America and Europe.

Do you see those in Europe and America who will lead and solve this problem? Biden? Macron? Or Sunak?No, they are weak and cannot.

You can post this in every thread, doesn't make it true.

 

[igor_kavinski]

You can post this in every thread, doesn't make it true.

I'm interested in your reasoning.

If Israel goes to war with Iran, that means the Allies/NATO get pulled in to the conflict at some point. When that happens, there won't be any weapons/munitions left to supply Ukraine. Russia wins there. Seeing their victory and NATO still duking it out with Iran, China launches full scale invasion of Taiwan. North Korea also decides to get in on the action and attacks South Korea. All hell breaks loose.

Why do you think the above series of events is beyond the realm of possibility?