Israel: We Are At War

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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,192
28,019
136
My sympathies lie with the Palestinians. This is one of the reasons.

Quote from a Winston Churchill speech in 1937.
"I do not admit that the dog in the manger has the final right to the manger, even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit, for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to those people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race, or, at any rate, a more worldly-wise race, to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."

Same mindset held by Republicans today. That's why they are loath to discuss the full truth about slavery.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,555
34,240
136
It also appears that the ground offensive has been stopped

View attachment 91558

Israel does not have the strength to continue what is basically full scale warfare against Gaza and potentially take on Hezbollah at the same time. Especially if Israel's western allies indicate they will not directly help in Lebanon if Israel kicks off a war there. Even just occupying Gaza is going to be a real strain on their manpower. Pair that with increasing allied aggravation at their Gaza campaign which will threaten support for Israel in the short, medium, and long terms there are few real other options.

Politically, both foreign and domestically, Israel is in a terrible spot that is probably only going to get worse.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,431
12,569
146
Israel does not have the strength to continue what is basically full scale warfare against Gaza and potentially take on Hezbollah at the same time. Especially if Israel's western allies indicate they will not directly help in Lebanon if Israel kicks off a war there. Even just occupying Gaza is going to be a real strain on their manpower. Pair that with increasing allied aggravation at their Gaza campaign which will threaten support for Israel in the short, medium, and long terms there are few real other options.

Politically, both foreign and domestically, Israel is in a terrible spot that is probably only going to get worse.
Really makes you wonder what would have happened if a couple of charismatic leaders had been in charge a century ago and formed a peaceful coexistence between them and the surrounding muslim peoples/nations.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,617
6,174
126
Really makes you wonder what would have happened if a couple of charismatic leaders had been in charge a century ago and formed a peaceful coexistence between them and the surrounding muslim peoples/nations.
I think that religious fanaticism is seen by today’s youth as an insanity, and that as a result those not exposed to it by early and insufferable brainwashing, see the whole religious landscape as a joke. With so many religions and so many different forms of fanaticism visible to all of us today via media exposure, I think that what fanatical groups are feeling everywhere is that their days are numbered. This fear based in reality, in my opinion, just makes fanatics that much more fanatical. Fanatics have aims and when you fear you won’t succeed you will insure you do not. Unconsciously we are driven to create what we fear. In this way Zionist are destroying Israel. It is up to the citizens of Israel, in my opinion, to undertake the task of destroying Zionism to save Israel. Their real enemy, as with all of us, is within.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,577
43,601
136
The death toll keeps rising, there's also suspected over 7,000 buried under the rubble of destroyed houses/apartments

 

amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
4,001
2,255
136
Live... South Africa presents genocide case against Israel at International Court of Justice
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,617
10,490
136
I've honestly never given any thought to the difference between an abbreviation and an acronym before. Food for thought
You must have never worked for the government, military, or as a contractor to the government. You should see the glossaries in the back of an OD. Oh, that's Ordinance Document by the way.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,143
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I

Irony not lost on me a former Apartheid country is now prosecuting a current Apartheid country.

Yeah I thought that was a bit odd. Not sure if its so they can be like "look we were not the only ones" or what the impetus behind it is. Perhaps because of what happened there they have people able and willing to bring such a claim show in whatever legal means is necessary for that. I mean it does make some sense that they would know.
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,577
43,601
136
Summary of the ICJ case as it's unfolding


Israel's defence appears to be Oct 7 Hamas did bad things so they should be allowed to murder with impunity
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,680
20,052
136
I dont find it odd at all. I think its natural for SA to have a strong anti-apartheid stance and to take a leading role against the sort of injustices its people once endured.
exactly. it's actually quite sensible, considering South Africa was also messed up by western colonialism, just how the Palestinian people were.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,577
43,601
136
Israel keeps trying to justify their genocide of Gaza by invoking the oct 7th attacks at the ICJ
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,577
43,601
136

yeah, we already knew this but the confirmation from another source is good to know

~One of the revelations revealed in the investigation is that at midnight on October 7, the IDF ordered all of its combat units in practice to use the "Hannibal Procedure", although without clearly mentioning this explicit name. The order was to stop "at all costs" any attempt by Hamas terrorists to return to Gaza , that is, despite the fear that some of them have abductees
 

Drach

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2022
1,097
1,738
106

yeah, we already knew this but the confirmation from another source is good to know

~One of the revelations revealed in the investigation is that at midnight on October 7, the IDF ordered all of its combat units in practice to use the "Hannibal Procedure", although without clearly mentioning this explicit name. The order was to stop "at all costs" any attempt by Hamas terrorists to return to Gaza , that is, despite the fear that some of them have abductees
Can you understand the link you posted ?
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,577
43,601
136
Can you understand the link you posted ?
Yes, it's called google translate, there should be an extension for whichever browser you use

The order: prevent terrorists from returning to Gaza "at all costs", even if they have hostages with them​

Investigating the chaos in the early hours of October 7: confused orders, pilots who had no one to direct them to attack terrorists, and an order to shoot at all vehicles returning to Gaza - despite the fear that they may contain hostages. The full investigation, which outlines minute by minute the morning of the attack, will be published tomorrow in the "7 Days" supplement of "Yediot Ahronoth​


On the morning of October 7, several impressive episodes of heroism and sacrifice were recorded in the history of the country, but also a long series of failures, malfunctions and chaos in the army. The "7 Days" investigation that will be published tomorrow (Friday) outlines the first hours of Black Sabbath: a command system that failed almost completely and was completely blinded; fighters who, due to a lack of communication, had to direct aid from the air using the cell phone; Marines who brought fighters into battle with weapons without intentions or ceramic vests; old and unadapted orders that were pasted in "copy paste" and sent to the field; officers who concluded that there was no choice and must get helicopters in the "Combina" to jumpstart their forces; and KAT operators who were forced to enter WhatsApp groups of the kibbutzim to seek targets from the besieged citizens. And this is only a partial list.

One of the revelations revealed in the investigation is that at midnight on October 7, the IDF ordered all of its combat units in practice to use the "Hannibal Procedure", although without clearly mentioning this explicit name. The order was to stop "at all costs" any attempt by Hamas terrorists to return to Gaza , that is, despite the fear that some of them have abductees

It is estimated that about a thousand terrorists and infiltrators were killed in the area between the Otaf settlements and the Gaza Strip. It is not clear at this time how many of the abductees were killed due to the activation of this command. In the week after the attack, soldiers of elite units checked about 70 vehicles that were left in the area between the Otaf settlements and the Gaza Strip. These are vehicles that did not reach Gaza, because on the way they were shot by a combat helicopter, an anti-tank missile or a tank, and at least in some cases everyone in the vehicle was killed.

Another discovery deals with the question that bothered many: where was the air force in the first minutes. The investigation reveals that a few minutes after the start of the attack, a pair of F-16s (Storm) and a pair of F-35s (Adir) were launched, but due to the confusion and the fog of battle, there was no one to instruct them what was happening on the ground and direct them to the targets. Therefore, the pair of F-16s, for example, followed a fixed procedure, and flew to protect strategic targets, even though they were not in danger at the time.

The pilots and navigators did not know at all that in the meantime thousands of Nokhava terrorists were invading, and for about 45 critical minutes they circled idly in the sky. When they landed and were updated, just around eight o'clock, their frustration and anger was immense. "They could at least fly low, scare the Hamas terrorists with a noisy flight over their heads," says a senior officer in the squadron. "But they just didn't know what was going on."

The IDF spokesman's response: "These days the IDF is fighting the murderous terrorist organization Hamas in the Gaza Strip. The IDF will conduct a detailed and in-depth investigation on the matter to clarify the details to the end when the operational situation allows it, and will publish its findings to the public
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,577
43,601
136
~
Therefore, in light of Germany’s inability to draw lessons from its horrific history, President @hagegeingob expresses deep concern with the shocking decision communicated by the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany yesterday, 12 January 2024, in which it rejected the morally upright indictment brought forward by South Africa before the International Criminal Court that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.

Worryingly, ignoring the violent deaths of over 23 000 Palestinians in Gaza and various United Nations reports disturbingly highlighting the internal displacement of 85% of civilians in Gaza amid acute shortages of food and essential services, the German Government has chosen to defend in the International Criminal Court the genocidal and gruesome acts of the Israeli Government against innocent civilians in Gaza and the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

Germany cannot morally express commitment to the United Nations Convention against genocide, including atonement for the genocide in Namibia, whilst supporting the equivalent of a holocaust and genocide in Gaza. Various international organizations, such as Human Rights Watch have chillingly concluded that Israel is committing war crimes in Gaza.




Perpetrators of 2 genocides going to bat for Israel is ironic

 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,577
43,601
136


https://www.ynet.co.il/environment-science/article/hjarsw11ta

"The refineries stated: 'A sudden increase in pressure in a protected high-pressure facility caused a safety disc to rupture. As a result, a sudden noise similar to an explosion was produced. This is a statistical phenomenon that happens from time to time, but the causes are still being investigated. There isn't and wasn't any danger to the workers and the public.'"

Considering the pictures in the article, this certainly doesn't seem like a "statistical phenomenon that happens from time to time" but what do I know


some new developments, looks like a refinery went up in smoke?
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,555
34,240
136
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