Only 31% of Americans want an EV or PHEV. What about you?

[Brainonska511]

Last year I did about 16, 250-750 mi each way road trips, that is why I only replace one ICE vehicle with an EV. I wish the Bolt had faster Level 3 charging so I could do the 250 mile trips with it. Not sure why people think every car they own needs to have every capability they'll ever need.

I understand single car households being worried about the range. I'd couldn't make it work with a single car, at least not with the Bolt. But I think I do far more long road trips than the normal household.

I can certainly appreciate the issue for those that may regularly take 150+ mile trips (even if they are round trips, assuming no destination charger).

As a single care household, I wouldn't be likely to get an EV for this reason, since we go hiking in the White Mountains often enough in the summer, and I have to occasionally drive down to my company's office in Connecticut (from my home in the Boston metro area). But for anyone in a ≥2 car household, the range issue shouldn't come into play, since you could always have 1 vehicle that would be available for those longer trips.

 

[ondma]

Yup, everyone needs to be able to take off at a moments notice and drive 400+ miles without stopping.

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Not that many EVs have a reliable 400 mile range. If I had a home charger and needed two cars, an EV would be practical. However, I park on the street, and have only one car. Why would I want that car to be one that would limit my ability to take long trips, especially since EVs are generally expensive. If EVs were cheap, one could justify getting one and renting a car for the occasional long road trip, but unfortunately that is not the case.

 

[CP5670]

I have been passively looking at EVs for quite a while but they all have some major issues. I frequently go between the NY and DC suburbs (about 250 miles) and need to do that in cold weather with some range to spare, which rules out most EVs. I want only one car that does everything and there is also no charging station in my condo building, so I would need to go a mall to charge. I'm not a fan of Tesla, and the EQS and Lucid Air have good range and interior design but have too many reports of issues (and the EQS looks ugly on the outside). They depreciate very fast though, so used ones look attractive.

 

[misuspita]

Especially in Europe, where many people live in appartment blocks, without a dense street-level charging network, EV's won't fly en masse. Yeah, there are enough house owners, and for them, great! But for the rest, if I can't charge my car overnight in the parking lot, I'm not gonna consider a EV, no matter what. Only other hope would be a new battery tech that can charge to full in 15 minutes, and then make large charging stations distributed inside cities.

 

[Ken g6]

I want only one car that does everything and there is also no charging station in my condo building, so I would need to go a mall to charge.

Not having home charging is bad for EVs right now. Do you at least have a plug of some kind near your parking space? Even a household outlet would give you 2-4 miles per hour of charge, on an EV or a PHEV.

 

[CP5670]

Unfortunately not in my current place. I would need to go to a mall or charging station, and the nearest ones are 15-20 minutes away.

I think the lack of home affordability (worst in decades) is going to affect the uptake on EVs if they need a home charger to be practical. Many people in the NYC area rent even if they can afford a home, since it doesn't make sense to buy at the current prices and rates.

 

[Zorba]

Really in dense areas, we should be focusing on making public transit better so people choose not to own a car or if they do, it'll rarely driven. Cars just make dense areas worse and more expensive.

 

[CP5670]

The NYC suburbs (NJ/queens/etc) are not that densely packed, but still dense enough that buying over renting a similar type of place doesn't make sense. The unrecoverable cost of buying (mortgage interest+tax+hoa, sometimes even just tax+hoa) is much higher than renting. I like cars and want to be in areas where both walking and driving is feasible.

 

[Brovane]

Really in dense areas, we should be focusing on making public transit better so people choose not to own a car or if they do, it'll rarely driven. Cars just make dense areas worse and more expensive.

Or gasp, creating easily walkable or bikeable neighborhoods.

 

[Greenman]

Pretty much all new developments look like that. Takes many years for the trees to grow.

 

[CP5670]

I'm in a mixed use development, which have become popular across the country. They are dense enough to have a lot of ground level shops but also easy parking and car access. The apartments are typically larger and cheaper than what you get in downtown areas.

 

[Brainonska511]

Pretty much all new developments look like that. Takes many years for the trees to grow.

They all look like that because that's pretty much all that's generally allowed to be built, or it's greenfield sprawl that makes a single, denser development economically infeasible because people would still be heavily car reliant due to the location.

 

[Brovane]

Luckily some cities are starting to recognize this. Where I live they are currently building a mix-used development but you should hear the whining on the city Facebook group that this development is destroying the cities character.

The Houses that Can't be Built in America - The Missing Middle

 

[Greenman]

They all look like that because that's pretty much all that's generally allowed to be built, or it's greenfield sprawl that makes a single, denser development economically infeasible because people would still be heavily car reliant due to the location.

Land cost and infrastructure are a big chunk of a housing developments cost. When I was in it the target number for the improved lot was 30% of the selling price. The infrastructure cost per unit goes down with high density, but construction cost goes up because of more stringent building code. I don't know what the ratio is.
Single family residential is popular, in the area where I live land is cheap, so single family homes are very popular, and tend to be large with large lots. Zoning protects the value of the homes that are built. No one wants to buy a $500k condo and have a sewage treatment plant go in next door. Suddenly the value of their property drops by 50% and their stuck living in a stinky condo they can't afford to sell.

 

[K1052]

Zoning protects the value of the homes that are built. No one wants to buy a $500k condo and have a sewage treatment plant go in next door. Suddenly the value of their property drops by 50% and their stuck living in a stinky condo they can't afford to sell.

What would be the logical obstacle to disallowing industrial uses while zoning for dense residential with say 1st floor commercial uses (shops, bars, restaurants, etc)? If the goal is truly to protect against incompatible uses instead of merely ensuring the property value of incumbent property owners does nothing but increase?

 

[Zorba]

The NYC suburbs (NJ/queens/etc) are not that densely packed, but still dense enough that buying over renting a similar type of place doesn't make sense. The unrecoverable cost of buying (mortgage interest+tax+hoa, sometimes even just tax+hoa) is much higher than renting. I like cars and want to be in areas where both walking and driving is feasible.

If you live somewhere where a car isn't your primary/only way of getting around, a 120V plug should be plenty the majority of the time. Which is much cheaper and easier to put in every parking spot or a bunch of them.

Hopefully apartment complexes start putting in at least some level 2 chargers. There is one I've seen listed in Tulsa that has 8 chargers and they charge 12¢ per kWh, which is pretty much what the going rate would be if you plugged it at your own house. This should be the norm, not the exception.

 

[Zorba]

Sorry, I didn't mean to take this political, there are multiple threads in P&N to discuss zoning.

 

[Greenman]

What would be the logical obstacle to disallowing industrial uses while zoning for dense residential with say 1st floor commercial uses (shops, bars, restaurants, etc)? If the goal is truly to protect against incompatible uses instead of merely ensuring the property value of incumbent property owners does nothing but increase?

None, as long as that's disclosed before the purchase.

 

[CP5670]

I think there are plugs outside the building but not sure if residents can use them. There is actually a Taycan and e-tron GT in the parking lot, maybe I'll ask the owners what they do. I use the NJ transit train to go downtown for work but a car for most other things.

 

[Zorba]

I think there are plugs outside the building but not sure if residents can use them. There is actually a Taycan and e-tron GT in the parking lot, maybe I'll ask the owners what they do. I use the NJ transit train to go downtown for work but a car for most other things.

I've put 2kmis on my Bolt in 2 months, the first half of that was with 120V only and it was just fine for me. Even though I took everywhere and I live in the sprawling hell that is Oklahoma City (on the edge of it no less). If I was going to work everyday (55 mi roundtrip) it would've gotten tight, but have a friend in the neighborhood that does it with his Tesla.

 

[K1052]

None, as long as that's disclosed before the purchase.

What about a rezoning or other program, say like ADUs? Do land owners have a right to never experience a same type zoning change to their property, adjacent property, or to "nearby" properties from conditions when it was originally sold?

 

[CP5670]

I've put 2kmis on my Bolt in 2 months, the first half of that was with 120V only and it was just fine for me. Even though I took everywhere and I live in the sprawling hell that is Oklahoma City (on the edge of it no less). If I was going to work everyday (55 mi roundtrip) it would've gotten tight, but have a friend in the neighborhood that does it with his Tesla.

How much charge gets lost if you leave it unplugged overnight, especially in the cold? I often don't use my car for a few days, then drive around a lot the next few days.

 

[repoman0]

Lithium batteries don’t significantly self discharge, even in the cold. Should remain stable without plugging in for months.

 

[K1052]

Lithium batteries don’t significantly self discharge, even in the cold. Should remain stable without plugging in for months.

The 12V battery is definitely going to be a bigger concern than the high voltage pack. Which reminds me mine is on borrowed time likely...

 

[Zorba]

How much charge gets lost if you leave it unplugged overnight, especially in the cold? I often don't use my car for a few days, then drive around a lot the next few days.

Not cold enough here for me to really evaluate. I've read that there isn't really any self drain in the cold, but if it is really cold you have to do battery conditioning before you can really go. I've never ran into this, but it is basically running the heater to heat up the battery over a certain threshold.