Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

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SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
912
611
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USRs are good and cheap and idle stuff will be offloaded to the LP ghetto. It'll be fine.
They've deferred doing that off Strixes anyway.
Yeah this last part (deferred from Strix) seems clear. So it just means the future will involve the Z LP ghetto. That’s fine, the key is just making sure it can actually take some tasks and isn’t totally d*gsh&@ like Intel’s version. Looking forward to this.
Nah the cheapo champion is the 2+4 KRK chop.
I thought they killed that? So the chopped Kraken is back.
oh it's very-very-very usable, since it's not the server uncore lmao.
That is…. Extremely good to hear lol. I don’t expect it to match M junk battery life, but I want it to get to a usable place for the part’s size which otherwise defeats the purpose. Good news then.
 

adroc_thurston

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2023
3,134
4,505
96
That’s fine, the key is just making sure it can actually take some tasks and isn’t totally d*gsh&@ like Intel’s version
Intel did the Apple M1 Pro/Max oops and let LP cluster only have two cores (that's really not enough). Sad!
I thought they killed that? So the chopped Kraken is back.
Never did.
They did chop the price down a bit to stick Intel where it real hurts.
That is…. Extremely good to hear lol
Yeah, very cool part of many-many firsts for AMD. I wonder if they'll spam eDTCs Apple/MI300 style or would it be decap city on the package backside like the previous AMD 2.5D implementations.
 

SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
912
611
106
Intel did the Apple M1 Pro/Max oops and let LP cluster only have two cores (that's really not enough). Sad!
Yeah 2P and not enough oomph. Doesn’t take much but they can’t be completely worthless.
Never did.
They did chop the price down a bit to stick Intel where it real hurts.
Lmao. That’s great. I’d use that thing, tbh. AMD’s cost structure is wonderful vs Intel in client. Going to be pretty funny as long as they have enough wafer volume and design wins.
 

Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
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Oh heck yeah. Technical details. This will basically put QC above Apple on divulging details most likely, which is cool because we’ll get some more official technical insight into what I suspect are similar structures in the CPU. Very exciting to see!

If they are similar enough structures that you could figure out how Apple's chips work from their talk, they aren't going to talk about that and invite a potential patent lawsuit from Apple.
 

SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
912
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If they are similar enough structures that you could figure out how Apple's chips work from their talk, they aren't going to talk about that and invite a potential patent lawsuit from Apple.
Well dude they’re doing a huge shared L2 cache and the L1 is pretty big. And the previous Apple lawsuit was dismissed. The whole core looks eerily similar to Firestorm albeit made from scratch from LLVM.

What else are they going to talk about at Hot Chips? I guess we’ll find out.
 

Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
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Well dude they’re doing a huge shared L2 cache and the L1 is pretty big. And the previous Apple lawsuit was dismissed. The whole core looks eerily similar to Firestorm albeit made from scratch from LLVM.

What else are they going to talk about at Hot Chips? I guess we’ll find out.

There are plenty of ways to build something using a huge shared L2 and a pretty big L1. The fact that Qualcomm's stuff has similar specs doesn't mean it is similar under the hood. If it just looks similar from 1000 ft up then they can talk all they want about it without any potential legal issues, but we won't learn much about Apple's stuff from it.

If it is more than just "eerily similar" there's no way they'll be allowed to dive down into details that would make that obvious and provide great documentation for a court case. Just because a previous lawsuit failed doesn't mean a new one wouldn't succeed, especially if the defendant willingly hands you a bunch of evidence you can use in court. Qualcomm plenty of lawyers, who probably have to approve whatever is presented at industry events like Hot Chips - they'd ask the engineers a few pointed questions about whether any of the information they want to present could potentially get them in trouble with a previous employer.

Which is why I'm saying we won't learn anything about Apple's stuff from this. Either it isn't enough like Apple's stuff to infer anything useful, or in the unlikely event it is too similar they won't be allowed to discuss anything that is similar.
 

SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
912
611
106
There are plenty of ways to build something using a huge shared L2 and a pretty big L1. The fact that Qualcomm's stuff has similar specs doesn't mean it is similar under the hood. If it just looks similar from 1000 ft up then they can talk all they want about it without any potential legal issues, but we won't learn much about Apple's stuff from it.

If it is more than just "eerily similar" there's no way they'll be allowed to dive down into details that would make that obvious and provide great documentation for a court case. Just because a previous lawsuit failed doesn't mean a new one wouldn't succeed, especially if the defendant willingly hands you a bunch of evidence you can use in court. Qualcomm plenty of lawyers, who probably have to approve whatever is presented at industry events like Hot Chips - they'd ask the engineers a few pointed questions about whether any of the information they want to present could potentially get them in trouble with a previous employer.
Strictly speaking and at the limit, Doug, I agree. My point is just I doubt they’re worried about Apple’s lawyers. Patent suits over particular core structures aren’t going to happen, that’s not even technically what Apple had them for to begin with.
 

ikjadoon

Member
Sep 4, 2006
126
194
126
No, on-package LP RAM. A bit more power hungry than having it off-package.

Either way, is this the first photo of a X Elite cpu in an actual laptop? Its a fine chip

These look great. Thank you for sharing.

I saw a clear one, I think from a Surface, displayed on two thin pedestals and lots of shielding. Was actually quite nice looking.

Can't seem to find it now, but found a few more:






EDIT: this display but an actual photo, not a video.

Ah, found it:

 
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SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
912
611
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Are you seriously claiming that 3.4GHz Oryon is "netbook-tier" ST? That would be a very silly way to characterize it.
Indeed. He is not a very serious commentator though, more of an AMD shareholder much like Senttoschool is an AMD bear, just more technically inclined. Both are part of the problem.
 

eek2121

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2005
3,027
4,213
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Indeed. He is not a very serious commentator though, more of an AMD shareholder much like Senttoschool is an AMD bear, just more technically inclined. Both are part of the problem.
“problem”?

I don’t see a problem. Everyone has different viewpoints and knowledge.

I don’t really see any problem TBH.
 

SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
912
611
106
“problem”?

I don’t see a problem. Everyone has different viewpoints and knowledge.

I don’t really see any problem TBH.
I’m kidding to a degree, but the hype gets old. I’m not the only person who sees the grift from these two, though.
 

gdansk

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2011
2,454
3,316
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Was there a single fanless laptop announced?

Even the surface tablet had a fan. The PDF that was going around showed the new laptop having the same noise level as some Intel equipped device when underload. Well I don't know why I got my hopes up I thought ARM would save me from fan noise but it seems only Apple can do that. Shame.
 

The Hardcard

Member
Oct 19, 2021
89
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If they are similar enough structures that you could figure out how Apple's chips work from their talk, they aren't going to talk about that and invite a potential patent lawsuit from Apple.
There already was a lawsuit. It was dropped for a reason, and it wasn’t “OK. We’ll let you build it as long as you don’t talk about it.”

While Apple has many patents related to their processors, there is also a lot of things that we can learn about the design that is not patented. A lot of what Apple implemented comes from extensive shared research that Gerald Williams III participated in before he got to Apple, and was partly why he was hired by Apple.

Key to that was research into overcoming the memory wall with heavy out of order architecture. Several papers were written before Apple embed on its current path, none of which I have access to. However, key one if you want to try to get into it is “Kilo-instruction processors: overcoming the memory wall.”

it is very likely that there are similar design characteristics between Apple’s cores and Oryon. I don’t think any Apple design specifics will be revealed, but I do believe that if the presenter gets into the principles applied to what Oryon can do, it will give insight into what Apple is doing.
 
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SpudLobby

Senior member
May 18, 2022
912
611
106
There already was a lawsuit. It was dropped for a reason, and it wasn’t “OK. We’ll let you build it as long as you don’t talk about it.”

While Apple has many patents related to their processors, there is also a lot of things that we can learn about the design that is not patented. A lot of what Apple implemented comes from extensive shared research that Gerald Williams III participated in before he got to Apple, and was partly why he was hired by Apple.

Key to that was research into overcoming the memory wall with heavy out of order architecture. Several papers were written before Apple embed on its current path, none of which I have access to. However, key one if you want to try to get into it is “Kilo-instruction processors: overcoming the memory wall.”

it is very likely that there are similar design characteristics between Apple’s cores and Oryon. I don’t think any Apple design specifics will be revealed, but I do believe that if the presenter gets into the principles applied to what Oryon can do, it will give insight into what Apple is doing.
Exactly. Thank you.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
498
886
96
Was there a single fanless laptop announced?

Even the surface tablet had a fan. The PDF that was going around showed the new laptop having the same noise level as some Intel equipped device when underload. Well I don't know why I got my hopes up I thought ARM would save me from fan noise but it seems only Apple can do that. Shame.
Nope. All of them have fans.
 
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Thibsie

Senior member
Apr 25, 2017
792
860
136
Indeed. He is not a very serious commentator though, more of an AMD shareholder much like Senttoschool is an AMD bear, just more technically inclined. Both are part of the problem.
Seeing as objective as you are, singing ARM praise, if he's a problem, he isn't the only one.
 
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