Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread

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FlameTail

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Based on the leaked Dell roadmap and official TSMC timeline, here's my node speculation:

X Elite G2 [2025H2] : TSMC N3P
X Elite G3 [2027H2] : TSMC A16

8G4 [2024Q4] : N3E
8G5 [2025Q4] : N3P
8G6 [2026Q4] : N2
8G7 [2027Q4] : N2P
 

SpudLobby

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FlameTail

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So the rumour is that Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 will debut LPDDR6 support.


This means there is a high probability that X Elite G2 will also leverage LPDDR6, and not LPDDR5X/LPDDR5T as I previously speculated.
 

poke01

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So the rumour is that Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 will debut LPDDR6 support.


This means there is a high probability that X Elite G2 will also leverage LPDDR6, and not LPDDR5X/LPDDR5T as I previously speculated.
nope it’s too early. LPDDR6 is not coming this year.

 

FlameTail

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Will Purwa (Snapdragon X) get the same 45 TOPS NPU of Hamoa (Snapdragon X Plus/X Elite) ?

Purwa is supposed to be a cheap part, for devices under $1000 presumably?

Microsoft has explicitly said that Copilot+ PCs (those with a minimum requirements of 45 TOPS NPU, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD) will start at $999.
 

FlameTail

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Snapdragon X2 speculation/concept V6

X2 does double duty as both a Lunar Lake competitor and Purwa successor.

Microsoft's "2nd gen NPU" requirement was 40 TOPS (as detailed in the recent event). We know Microsoft will increase that requirement next year for "3rd gen NPUs", which I assume will be 2x, so 80 TOPS.
 

FlameTail

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This guy installed Windows 24H2 on his Robo-&-Kala 2-in-1 tablet.

FYI, Windows 24H2 is the version that Snapdragon X Plus/X Elite PCs will be shipping with. It has under-the-hood optimisations for ARM and the new Prism emulator.

The R&K is powered by the Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 chip (X Elite's predecessor), and runs Windows-On-ARM.

So he installed the Windows 24H2 version from the Windows Insider program preview channel, to see if it brings any improvements to his 8cx Gen 3 tablet.

Spoiler: There are indeed some substantial improvements. Commenters under the video running older chips such as the 8cx Gen 2 also said they saw improvements after installing Windows 24H2.
 
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Spoiler: There are indeed some substantial improvements. Commenters under the video running older chips such as the 8cx Gen 2 also said they saw improvements after installing Windows 24H2.
In terms of % improvement how much? Or just snappier in general?
 

FlameTail

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In terms of % improvement how much? Or just snappier in general?
Before/After update

Browserbench 2.1
154/167 points

Loading Affinity 2
22.11/23.80 seconds

Affinity 2 Open RAW
9.47/6.07 seconds

Affinity 2 Develop RAW
13.06/6.32 seconds

Loading Audacity
4.54/4.89 seconds

Control
480p high 20s/720p high 20s
 
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FlameTail

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PCWorld interviews VP of Microsoft Surface.


One of the things mentioned:
Interviewer: Apple had its moment a few years back when it transitioned away from X86 into Arm processors. Is this the moment for PCs to do the same?

We hope that is the case.

I guess I’ll say — sorry. I think in terms of a significant shift in what is capable on a PC? Yes. Arm-specific? No. Okay, I think what Arm brings is power efficiency. And Qualcomm has you know a great set of libraries to pull from a CPU/NPU perspective. And so we certainly wanted to lean on that, but we don’t look at the PC space as all Arm going forward
Just to confirm: there is a minimum TOPS [trillions of operations] requirement for a Copilot+ PC? Is that true?

Ostrum: Yes. 40 TOPS. 40 TOPS is the minimum, okay. And I think as we as we go forward… Well, I’ll leave it at that. 40 TOPS
Haha. He's alluding to Microsoft increasing the TOPS figure in the future.
We’re seeing new Surface Laptops, new Surface Pros. AI is here. How will AI influence hardware design going forward, besides just what’s inside them?

It’s a good question. We talked a little bit about making sure that these devices don’t just show up at the premium space but also that we can get into lower price points and commercial, too, with slightly different drivers for those two dimensions.

We see some different requirements from our commercial perspective: number of ports, screen treatments etc. Price points. Lower price points typically come with smaller screens, less features. In the past we’ve done a mixture of plastics and metal enclosures for those things, relatively straightforward there in the near term. For us, it is about getting the Copilot+ experience across the entire portfolio.
So Microsoft want to bring the Copilot+ experience to lower price points too?

That could Qualcomm's upcoming cheaper Purwa SoC (Snapdragon X) could feature the same 45 TOPS NPU as Hamoa.

I can imagine Microsoft putting that to the Surface GO and Surface Laptop Go
 
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Haha. He's alluding to Microsoft increasing the TOPS figure in the future.
Hope they update the PC Health app or something else in Settings to benchmark the PC's TOPS performance. And maybe also mention if the TOPS of all available devices (CPU/GPU/NPU) can be combined to meet the minimum requirement.
 

poke01

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Those bench marks on the base OLED model will be slower thsn M3 which is not a good look when third party reviewers test them.
Apple never claimed to invent Tandem OLED. Don’t people know by know who invents new display tech?
Microsoft is doing stupid things, again:
View attachment 99569
This is why Qualcomm shouldn't have had any X Elite SKUs without Core Boost.

That X1E-78-100 shouldn't exist.
One other I like to point out. The Surface buy page has no information about the CPU you are getting!

doesn’t list core count, no GHz (very important since these chips are clocked all over the place) and no memory bandwidth/speed listed. Like who is the buy page for, toddlers?
 
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One other I like to point out. The Surface buy page has no information about the CPU you are getting!

doesn’t list core count, no GHz (very important since these chips are clocked all over the place) and no memory bandwidth/speed listed. Like who is the buy page for, toddlers?
That aptly explains their target audience. People who don't care about specs!

By the way, in the US, how many times can a consumer "abuse" the item return policy to find the perfect chip bin?
 

FlameTail

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Hope they update the PC Health app or something else in Settings to benchmark the PC's TOPS performance. And maybe also mention if the TOPS of all available devices (CPU/GPU/NPU) can be combined to meet the minimum requirement.
No.

It doesn't make sense. Running distributed AI workloads on CPU/GPU/NPU is like gaming with SLI. And besides the GPU consumes a ton of power, so it's not efficient run it that way.

 
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