Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[itsmydamnation]

Sad part for me from Zen4 image is, how little area Decode, IntSheduler and IntExe are taking. They can easily double them without adding much overall space. Also L1 Inst cache seems bigger than Zen3? Or may be it was mis colored with area from Op$. Also heart breaking to see Branch prediction takes that much of space.

Why ? Repeat after me,

Moving data hard , executing data easy.

Remember this core is smashing a core that has way more decode, rob, load store, l1d and execution units / prf ports.

Zen4 is frankly amazing probably the best zen core since zen1.

So much performance for so little functional resource increase. Zen5 is gonna be stonks!!!!!

 

[AtenRa]

I'm not confident Raptor Lake can even beat 5800x3D with pedestrian DDR4 in gaming.

We will find out at the end of the month.

 

[biostud]

So at what time around RPL launch Will AMD either officially hint or leak information about 7800X3D and 7950X3D?

 

[AtenRa]

So at what time around RPL launch Will AMD either officially hint or leak information about 7800X3D and 7950X3D?

Maybe at CES 23, this January.

 

[JustViewing]

Why ? Repeat after me,

Moving data hard , executing data easy.

Remember this core is smashing a core that has way more decode, rob, load store, l1d and execution units / prf ports.

Zen4 is frankly amazing probably the best zen core since zen1.

So much performance for so little functional resource increase. Zen5 is gonna be stonks!!!!!

I am not disputing that and I understand the reasons. Its just weird that actual execution part are tiny part of it.

 

[RnR_au]

Maybe at CES 23, this January.

I thought AMD had said that there would be a Zen X3D product out before the end of the year? Have they changed their plans?

 

[biostud]

Maybe at CES 23, this January.

That is the official presentation, but obviously they’re going to obstruct RPL sales before that.

 

[Thunder 57]

Sad part for me from Zen4 image is, how little area Decode, IntSheduler and IntExe are taking. They can easily double them without adding much overall space. Also L1 Inst cache seems bigger than Zen3? Or may be it was mis colored with area from Op$. Also heart breaking to see Branch prediction takes that much of space.

Makes you wonder how K7/K8/K10 managed a 64K L1i and L1d cache,

 

[AtenRa]

I thought AMD had said that there would be a Zen X3D product out before the end of the year? Have they changed their plans?

First time I read about this, I have no idea.

 

[Kepler_L2]

Sad part for me from Zen4 image is, how little area Decode, IntSheduler and IntExe are taking. They can easily double them without adding much overall space.

What do you think they are doing with Zen5?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

there is no 65watt 5800x its a 105watt part and you have to enable eco mode to get it to 65W do you mean the 5700x?

I wrote wrongly the TDP value. I meant 5800x(105W) vs 7700x(105W).

 

[RnR_au]

First time I read about this, I have no idea.

Was mentioned in their Financial Analyst day.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1539171315940204544

Shortly after 2.47:30 - "We are proud of what vcache technology is doing for us and we going to feature this in Ryzen 7000 series later this year and in the future generations."

I guess there may be some question mark over the part of 'going to feature'.

 

[AtenRa]

Was mentioned in their Financial Analyst day.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1539171315940204544

Shortly after 2.47:30 - "We are proud of what vcache technology is doing for us and we going to feature this in Ryzen 7000 series later this year and in the future generations."

I guess there may be some question mark over the part of 'going to feature'.

Thx, ok we wait and see then.

 

[inf64]

Why ? Repeat after me,

Moving data hard , executing data easy.

Remember this core is smashing a core that has way more decode, rob, load store, l1d and execution units / prf ports.

Zen4 is frankly amazing probably the best zen core since zen1.

So much performance for so little functional resource increase. Zen5 is gonna be stonks!!!!!

Zen 4 is clearly a superior core, better perf./watt, same or better IPC, better ISA support (AVX512 with no clock regression), higher clocks, half the die area, better usage of structures ( just see the massive ROB size difference in Golden Cove vs Zen 4). Impressive from AMD, but we got spoiled so we expect crazy gains from them anyway. I look forward to Zen 5, Mike Clark was gushing like a fangirl when he spoke with Ian about Zen 5, it means it will bring massive gains.

 

[inf64]

New leak for R23, ~39000 pts with ES/QS: https://www.chiphell.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2440712&page=3&authorid=401712


"7950x update water-cooled R23 running score "

 

[Det0x]

hwbot discord

F4 bios

 

[Hans Gruber]

Nice to see we are getting legitimate leaks. Keep it up!

 

[nicalandia]

New leak for R23, ~39000 pts with ES/QS: https://www.chiphell.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2440712&page=3&authorid=401712


"7950x update water-cooled R23 running score "

I was about to post it..


Also..

 

[Kaluan]

It's interesting that people are doing this. Leaks from ES samples, prerelease BIOS, etc. and suddenly everyone is going nuts. Zen 4 is going to be a fantastic chip.

I doubt a successor to Steam Deck will use Zen 4, unfortunately, unless Valve scores a heck of a deal with AMD. More likely it will use some form of Rembrandt unless they release a new higher priced SKU rather than a successor. The whole reason valve went with the APU it did was cost vs. gaming performance at decent power. Zen 4 is a premium product. Rembrandt will end up being the next budget product.

I could be wrong, however. I would welcome being wrong, actually. I love my Steam deck, but I do wish it had a bit more horsepower.

Yeah I'm only sure about the RDNA3 part, with the massive area efficiency and +50% power efficiency gains rumoured/claimed Valve, Samsung and the handheld makers will want in on it even more than they did with RDNA2.
I don't see AMD backporting Zen4 to N6 tho, so it might be Zen3-based + RDNA3. But then again, N5/N4 is well on it's way to becoming a mainstream node and 2nd gen Steam Deck is probably not coming out anytime soon, so that's also possible (and conversely, I don't see them porting Zen3 to N5/N4).

This chip gona be HOT fast
View attachment 67053

From the Gigabyte leak, 120W seemed to be the only middle-ground TDP on AM5 between 105W and 170W config (which I find weird, always thought 125 and 140 will be a thing).

Building on that idea, anyone think 7950 and/or 7900 (non-X, OEM only or not) will slot in that 120W TDP, or lower?
...if they have any intentions for such SKUs that is.

Anyway, just my 2c.

 

[xilli_fiberbit]

what means the stepping RMR ?

 

[xilli_fiberbit]

Now Redhat has a patent on chiplet filled in 2021 :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565800874965929984

 

[Kaluan]

They showed the 7600X beating the 12900K both at DDR5 6000 by 5%, so the 7600X is at least neck and neck with the 5800X3D in overall gaming.

Pertinent detail maybe: In AMD's (validated) performance claims of 5800X3D v 12900K, they used DDR5-5200 (undisclosed latency I think), where as in the 7600X v 12900K they used DDR5-6000CL30 (as we all know).
So the 12900K tested now should be roughly = to 5800X3D (or 1-2% slower, whatever). Hence 7600X (if they're truthful again) could be 3-5% OVER 5800X3D, not neck and neck.

Just saying.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Yeah I'm only sure about the RDNA3 part, with the massive area efficiency and +50% power efficiency gains rumoured/claimed Valve, Samsung and the handheld makers will want in on it even more than they did with RDNA2.
I don't see AMD backporting Zen4 to N6 tho, so it might be Zen3-based + RDNA3. But then again, N5/N4 is well on it's way to becoming a mainstream node and 2nd gen Steam Deck is probably not coming out anytime soon, so that's also possible (and conversely, I don't see them porting Zen3 to N5/N4).
.....

My opinion is that they would go for Zen4 + RDNA3, because they are more power efficient than any other combination, so they can stay within the same power limit yet increase performance by a lot. The question is If Steam 2 will have 4 cores or finally go for 6-8 cores. IGP could stay at 4WGP, that would be still a 2x increase in shader count or TFlops at the same frequency. 5nm is more expensive than 6nm, but also more power efficient.

 

[Timmah!]

Are those the same source? In other words, 39K at 5,5GHz?

I was about to post it..
View attachment 67080

Also..

View attachment 67081

 

[nicalandia]

Are those the same source? In other words, 39K at 5,5GHz?

Same source, same CPU with better water cooler. The 29,000 run was done on air cooler