Discussion Speculation: Zen 4 (EPYC 4 "Genoa", Ryzen 7000, etc.)

[Vattila]

Except for the details about the improvements in the microarchitecture, we now know pretty well what to expect with Zen 3.

The leaked presentation by AMD Senior Manager Martin Hilgeman shows that EPYC 3 "Milan" will, as promised and expected, reuse the current platform (SP3), and the system architecture and packaging looks to be the same, with the same 9-die chiplet design and the same maximum core and thread-count (no SMT-4, contrary to rumour). The biggest change revealed so far is the enlargement of the compute complex from 4 cores to 8 cores, all sharing a larger L3 cache ("32+ MB", likely to double to 64 MB, I think).

Hilgeman's slides did also show that EPYC 4 "Genoa" is in the definition phase (or was at the time of the presentation in September, at least), and will come with a new platform (SP5), with new memory support (likely DDR5).

What else do you think we will see with Zen 4? PCI-Express 5 support? Increased core-count? 4-way SMT? New packaging (interposer, 2.5D, 3D)? Integrated memory on package (HBM)?

Vote in the poll and share your thoughts!

 

[igor_kavinski]

Naked Zen4 Socket...

View attachment 67191

Oh my...such a saaxxxyyyy beauty

 

[igor_kavinski]

It seems like that is true of just about everything though. I think the term IPC is massively misused. It varies massively between applications and can vary significantly between different components of the same application. It can also vary significantly with input data. That is why you should look at data for the applications you actually run.

So the term should be "average IPC in specific application" or AIISA?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Nah, its still only 16C chip in age, where 96C ones exist. There is really nothing top-of-the-line about it, except being top chip into AM4 socket.

Ah. Seems Supermicro made a mistake giving me 5-day remote access to their dual socket 256 thread Ice Lake Xeon server. When they asked for feedback, I told them that I wasn't impressed because Excel didn't get any benefit from all those threads. I wish I could see them smacking their heads in dismay! You, on the other hand, would probably have given them a glowing feedback due to the massively parallel applications you are addicted to

And oh, they don't respond to my emails anymore. I wonder why

 

[Timmah!]

Ah. Seems Supermicro made a mistake giving me 5-day remote access to their dual socket 256 thread Ice Lake Xeon server. When they asked for feedback, I told them that I wasn't impressed because Excel didn't get any benefit from all those threads. I wish I could see them smacking their heads in dismay! You, on the other hand, would probably have given them a glowing feedback due to the massively parallel applications you are addicted to

And oh, they don't respond to my emails anymore. I wonder why

I did not mean to imply i would need or even want 96C cpu. Just that 16C cpu is really nothing extra anymore. After all, you could have one back in 2017, for 1000. Surely, one being sold for 500 now, being older gen and on sale on top of that, 5 years later, is not that exciting to gloat over how awesome is it. If anything, it was overpriced before, given what top Alder Lake was going for.

 

[therealmongo]

Oh man the prices of X670 motherboards

 

[SteinFG]

I'd say wait for B650 boards, as they offer the exact same functionality and overclocking support, except with less usb ports, which is a non-issue

 

[deasd]

7950x CPUZ official ranking

CPU-Z Benchmark for AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (1T) - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

Best CPU performance - 64-bit - May 2024

valid.x86.fr

https://twitter.com/x/status/1567415942694715392

https://twitter.com/x/status/1567416282517237761

 

[Det0x]

^^ CPU-Z is one of the worst benchmarks for Zen4 compared to Zen3, it pretty much show zero IPC increase and no benefit from the upgraded memory system on the new AM5 platform.

This is my 5950x in said benchmark, using my custom watercooling rig, but still..
(ST = ~5150mhz)


*update*
maxed out MT:

 

[nicalandia]

Genoa Crushing Threads...

 

[nicalandia]

AMD 7950X Geekbench Graphic score..

Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. X670E AORUS MASTER - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. X670E AORUS MASTER with an AMD Ryzen 9 7950X processor.

browser.geekbench.com

 

[nicalandia]

More details about boosting....

 

[SteinFG]

"Everyone gets a refresh! You get the refresh! And you!"

AMD is updating its model numbering system for Ryzen 2023+ CPUs, Ryzen 9 7945HX to be high-end Zen4 Dragon Range APU - VideoCardz.com

AMD paving the way for future Ryzen CPUs AMD is updating its product naming scheme for 2023 and beyond. It should better reflect where each CPU stacks up. The first number will simply refer to the production year, starting with 7 meaning 2023, 8 standing for 2024 product and 9 for 2025 CPUs. The...

videocardz.com

7_30 series is the third time they're releasing Cezanne.

 

[moinmoin]

View attachment 67242

"Everyone gets a refresh! You get the refresh! And you!"

AMD is updating its model numbering system for Ryzen 2023+ CPUs, Ryzen 9 7945HX to be high-end Zen4 Dragon Range APU - VideoCardz.com

AMD paving the way for future Ryzen CPUs AMD is updating its product naming scheme for 2023 and beyond. It should better reflect where each CPU stacks up. The first number will simply refer to the production year, starting with 7 meaning 2023, 8 standing for 2024 product and 9 for 2025 CPUs. The...

videocardz.com

7_30 series is the third time they're releasing Cezanne.

That's actually a great change if they consistently stick to it.

 

[DisEnchantment]

Some mention of Zen 5 in the slides finally (as a SKU/part number).

Bulldozer --> Zen took 5+ years.

Zen --> Zen 5 is 7+ years. That is how long Zen 5 is being developed. From architecture to launch.

Maybe time to start another thread once Zen 4 hit the shelves.

Looks like chips will be plenty from the combined N6 and N5 capacity

 

[jpiniero]

That's actually a great change if they consistently stick to it.

The thing that gets me is that OEMs must have insisted on new Barcelo and Rembrandt models.

 

[linkgoron]

That naming scheme probably won't survive. It reminds me of that Radeon naming scheme that never went anywhere.

AMD Radeon RX 400 series naming scheme explained | VideoCardz.com

Radeon 400, Radeon RX 460, Radeon RX 470, Radeon RX 480, Radeon RX Vega 56, Radeon RX Vega 64 AMD has finally shed more light on its Radeon RX 400 series naming system. AMD Radeon RX 4XX and Radeon 4XX Let's start with the RX. There are two

videocardz.com

The naming scheme didn't even survive until Vega, and the Polaris refreshes were all 5XX series.

 

[Timmah!]

"Everyone gets a refresh! You get the refresh! And you!"

AMD is updating its model numbering system for Ryzen 2023+ CPUs, Ryzen 9 7945HX to be high-end Zen4 Dragon Range APU - VideoCardz.com

AMD paving the way for future Ryzen CPUs AMD is updating its product naming scheme for 2023 and beyond. It should better reflect where each CPU stacks up. The first number will simply refer to the production year, starting with 7 meaning 2023, 8 standing for 2024 product and 9 for 2025 CPUs. The...

videocardz.com

7_30 series is the third time they're releasing Cezanne.

Weird stuff. This only concerns mobile?

 

[xilli_fiberbit]

New AGESA on the road :

https://twitter.com/x/status/1567459576307666944

AGESA 1003 RC2

 

[Tuna-Fish]

The thing that gets me is that OEMs must have insisted on new Barcelo and Rembrandt models.

Barcelo makes sense for the low-end because DDR4. Rembrandt makes sense because of N6.

I hate the numbering, but at least it will be possible to tell which generation a part belongs to without having to look it up.

 

[uzzi38]

The thing that gets me is that OEMs must have insisted on new Barcelo and Rembrandt models.

Rembrandt is just OEMs refreshing the same laptops designs again.

Barcelo is needed either way because DDR5 prices mean neither Rembrandt nor Phoenix are going to pass for low end platforms.

 

[Mopetar]

^^ CPU-Z is one of the worst benchmarks for Zen4 compared to Zen3, it pretty much show zero IPC increase and no benefit from the upgraded memory system on the new AM5 platform.

Even AMDs own average includes some applications that barely see any increase. If the program doesn't include many instructions that have been sped up the overall results won't move.

For other programs it can be the opposite extreme where it's disproportionately faster.

That's actually a great change if they consistently stick to it.

I think the architecture should come before the product category or maybe even before the year. It prevents something like a customer thinking an 9820HX is better than a 8755HX, though I doubt AMD would release something like this extreme example.

 

[biostud]

Weird stuff. This only concerns mobile?

They have learned from Intel, mobile CPUs should be utter confusion.

 

[nicalandia]

AMD EPYC Genoa 9654, 96C/128T just murdering Cinebench R23 MT

 

[jpiniero]

Barcelo makes sense for the low-end because DDR4. Rembrandt makes sense because of N6.

If you look at the chart, Barcelo goes up to Ryzen 7 and Rembrandt goes up to Ryzen 9. That's not really low end. It's probably the exact same products with maybe 100 mhz more.

Rembrandt is just OEMs refreshing the same laptops designs again.

Barcelo is needed either way because DDR5 prices mean neither Rembrandt nor Phoenix are going to pass for low end platforms.

Does sort of imply that the % of the volume being Barcelo/Rembrandt is going to be high to the point where OEMs demanded - and got - new generation SKUs.

 

[Panino Manino]

Some mention of Zen 5 in the slides finally (as a SKU/part number).

View attachment 67243


Bulldozer --> Zen took 5+ years.

Zen --> Zen 5 is 7+ years. That is how long Zen 5 is being developed. From architecture to launch.

Maybe time to start another thread once Zen 4 hit the shelves.

Looks like chips will be plenty from the combined N6 and N5 capacity

Oh my goddess... we're living in Zen Era longer than Bulldozer Era?
When you're suffering time sure takes longer to pass.